Stöckli Laser WRT ST vs SC?

[Tony Storaro]

Just picked my 180cm WRT ST with Carbon Fibre plate and SRT 12! A thing of beauty and the ski experience is just next level.

So, what you basically say, WRT ST in 180 cm are better at about everything than the GS in 180 cm.

Damn....I thought I'd go for GS next and now that...damn....now I really need to find a pair of WRT to test them.

 

[Vicmoto]

My contribution to the thread...
I've tested the 21/22 WRT in Andorra this weekend (175 cm - SRT Speed Plate and SRT 12 bindings). Very good ski but needs to be skied. Most likely that my technique is not good enough but it requires strength and concentration. We were skiing with an ex-World Cup racer who was using the WRTs. She was making good use of them and the difference was noticeable. After a while, I moved into the 21/22 non-FIS GS (175 cm - SRT Speed Plate and SRT 12 bindings). Much more pleasant and easier to ski. IMHO the GS gives more confidence to push the ski to the limits. Something that I didn't dare to do with the WRTs. They feel similar to my Atomic G9 (177/18.4m - 2019 model with standard Atomic/Salomon X12 bindings and no plate). Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to test the SC, they were the next on the list
My conclusion is that the WRT is a good machine in the right hands (or feet) but they are not for faint-hearted people.

 

[Tony Storaro]

(175 cm)

175?

If there is such thing as WRT ST in 175 I am buying it in a heartbeat.

Not that I won't buy 172 to add it to the 180 but 175 would be REAL nice.

 

[Vicmoto]

175?

If there is such thing as WRT ST in 175 I am buying it in a heartbeat.

Not that I won't buy 172 to add it to the 180 but 175 would be REAL nice.

You're right. lt was the 175... my mistake

 

[DocGKR]

After GS gate training this weekend at Squaw, I jumped on my 172 WRT ST's and went free skiing, including a bunch of runs with ScotsSkier. I was skiing off Red Dog, Siberia, Shirley, Granite Chief, and a late day run down KT22. The WRT ST was very fun to ski, handling all the on-piste conditions, including hard and soft groomer surfaces, hard bumps in the shade, soft bumps in the sun, and some edge of trail crust in the trees a couple of times. The 172 WRT ST is very reminiscent of the 175 Head e/i.Race; both serve a similar niche, as slightly de-tuned, less twitchy, longer radius FIS SL feeling skis. The SC is a bit more relaxed and more versatile, as well as being better in different shaped moguls, although it has a slighlty lower speed limit.

 

[Peter P]

Interestingly, I have both the Stöckli 172cm WRT and the 177cm SC, as well as the 185cm Laser GS, along with some 165cm FIS SL’s and 183-188cm 21-30m radius Masters/FIS GS skis.

Over the Holidays I had some spare time, so I tested the above skis back to back at Squaw--free skiing on west coast “hard surface” groomers (probably equivalent to East Coast powder), a variety of bumps, a few inches of fresh, as well as some cut-up mank. Keep in mind I am a 6 ft, 210lbs old guy who grew up racing straight skis and has a more "directional" style.

A lot of my thoughts are in concordance with what has been said earlier in this thread, but some will differ.

Each of the Stöckli’s in question—WRT, SC, GS are among my favorite recreational carving skis, although if I could only have one of them, it would probably be the SC. I find each of these Stöckli’s to offer easy turn initiation over a wide range of speeds, great edge grip on almost all surfaces, good rebound energy, larger than average sweet spots, and a greater degree of forgiveness than many other similar caliber skis.

In my experience, one simple observation has been that folks who enjoy a FIS SL will like the WRT, while those who don’t appreciate a FIS SL are more comfortable with the SC.

I have previously written about my experiences with the SC, but to recap, after moving the bindings forward 1.5cm, the SC turn shape can be varied from nearly SL tight to almost GS wide on surfaces ranging from icy hard morning groomers to soft afternoon slush. The SC is quite fun in both firm and soft moguls. It can also handle a few inches of fresh snow without issues. Turn initiation on the SC is as easy and intuitive as on my 177cm Head SuperShape Rally, but the SC is smoother and has a much higher speed limit than the Rally. In addition, the SC has a very large “sweet spot” and is equally forgiving as the less capable Rally. The Head 177cm SuperShape Speed is closer in top end performance to the SC, but the SS Speed is not as refined or smooth. On my feet, the SC offers a wider performance range than other sport carvers like the Atomic Redster, Nordica Spitfire, Völkl Deacon and others of that ilk. The SC is not quite as precise, scalpel-like, or powerful as the Head e/i.Race or Stöckli WRT for that matter, but the SC is much more fun and adaptable to a wider variety of conditions and terrain. In many ways the SC offers similar versatility and capability as my 181cm Rossi Hero Elite Plus Ti, although the Rossi has a bit more energy, while the SC is more elegant (maybee ZR1 vs. 911). The on-piste breadth and ease offered by the SC is surprising—I suspect both experts and strong intermediates will find the SC a joy carving up groomers, as well as zipping bumps, and roaming all over the mountain on-piste. If you can handle a Head Rally or Liberty V-series, you can manage an SC.

The 172cm WRT is somewhat similar to the 170-175cm Head e/i.Race, particularly in turn shape, although the WRT feels even closer in energy, edge grip, and quickness to my 165cm Rossi FIS SL. When I am on my game, I actually like my FIS SL in the bumps and unsurprisingly the WRT also works well for me in moguls. Like a FIS SL, the WRT is definitely quicker, offers more precision, and demonstrates a bit higher speed limit than the SC. However, the SC is palpably more versatile, has a greater tolerance of errors in technique, and handles a broader breadth of on-piste terrain all over the resort. Note that while the WRT is quite stable arcing turns at high velocities, it can also be whipped around at slower speeds without much effort. FWIW, after experimenting back and forth, I ended up with the WRT's mounted on the line. In short, the WRT is very much like a FIS SL, but with a bit wider turn radius and a touch gentler manners. The WRT's are a blast to cruise around on! Now to burst a few bubbles: At no time has the 172cm WRT ever felt as smooth and stable in longer turns as a 20-30m Masters or FIS GS ski. For that matter, even pseudo-GS sport carvers like the 185cm Stöckli Laser GS or 180cm Head Rebel i.Speed offer better long turn capability than the 172cm WRT. For me, the 172cm WRT definitely feels more like a slightly larger radius FIS SL and not at all like a GS ski--be it FIS, Masters, or Sport.

As recently noted in another thread about my 185cm Stöckli Laser GS; after moving the bindings forward 2cm, I have fallen in love with them for medium and long turn sport carving. They have easy turn initiation at all speeds, feel silky smooth, are stable and grippy on hard surfaces, but can also bust through loose crud. The Laser GS obviously offers a very high speed limit, but they are also surprisingly easy to ski and turn when going slower. Unexpectedly, the Laser GS was able handle about 12" of fresh snow and were also reasonably well behaved in moguls--hmmm, almost an all mountain ski. I like the 185cm Laser GS so much that they have replaced my 182cm AX's, much like I prefer my 177cm SC to the 175cm AX.

I find the Laser GS to be a great complement to my SC's.

Hey Doc, I like this posting of yours. I wonder how a SC 177cm with WRT binding + WRT D20 plate would change things up? Maybe get it closer to WRT without sacrificing too much of its flexibility.

 

[Joerg vL]

Thank you guys for the informative discussions.

Thanks for all of your help and input guys! Just picked my 180cm WRT ST with Carbon Fibre plate and SRT 12! A thing of beauty and the ski experience is just next level.

I am going to Verbier in Jan 2022 and planned on getting the 172cm WRT ST + CF + SRT 12. I read your reviews and was surprised to notice that you ended up with the 180s instead. May I ask what is your height/weight? I am 5' 11.5" and 198# (182/89 kg) maybe I should also choose the 180s? I don´t know...

 

[Tony Storaro]

Thank you guys for the informative discussions.

I am going to Verbier in Jan 2022 and planned on getting the 172cm WRT ST + CF + SRT 12. I read your reviews and was surprised to notice that you ended up with the 180s instead. May I ask what is your height/weight? I am 5' 11.5" and 198# (182/89 kg) maybe I should also choose the 180s? I don´t know...

I haven't seen the OP since the time this thread was created so I am not sure he will reply.
If you read all his posts you will find he chose 180 over 172 based on the performance on steep hard terrain.
I actually bought my 180s to a large extent based on this thread and can confirm everything he says about the 180.

By the way, it is no coincidence that the 180 are sold out in most of the places I look, including the Stockli website.

P.S. With this ski your height/weight is of less importance compared to the intended use of the ski/ turn radius you prefer. 180 is more of a GS ski, whereas the 172 are more slalom-y but not pure SL ski (thankfully).

 

[switters]

How does the SRT WT compare to the SX? I see that at a similar length (173 vs 172), the SX has a slightly longer radius (16 vs 14.8), is slightly wider underfoot (70 vs 65), and is described as being more accessible. Just curious what the other significant differences are in terms of how the skis feel.

 

[Jeronimo]

How does the SRT WT compare to the SX? I see that at a similar length (173 vs 172), the SX has a slightly longer radius (16 vs 14.8), is slightly wider underfoot (70 vs 65), and is described as being more accessible. Just curious what the other significant differences are in terms of how the skis feel.

I don't see the SX spoken of much on these boards. Seems to be a forgotten step child.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Depends ..... SX or SX FIS?

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record.

 

[wallyk]

@DocGKR have been reading your analysis and assessment and am interested in your thoughts……I skied the WRT at Zermatt in 2018 and remember enough details enough to remember the more the skier gave the more the ski responded. What would your thoughts be about the WRT vs the laser GS for beer league in Minneapolis? Tight, icy “GS” style gates (it’s the MinnieApple). I’ve been skiing on an old Racetiger SL and am competitive against GS skis. While I have not skied the Laser GS, the stiffness and the turn characteristics of the WRT, cutting across the fall line rather than a longer arc style make for an intriguing choice.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[DocGKR]

Tight icy "GS" gates....I would be tempted to try the 180 WRT or use a FIS SL.

 

[Jeronimo]

@DocGKR have been reading your analysis and assessment and am interested in your thoughts……I skied the WRT at Zermatt in 2018 and remember enough details enough to remember the more the skier gave the more the ski responded. What would your thoughts be about the WRT vs the laser GS for beer league in Minneapolis? Tight, icy “GS” style gates (it’s the MinnieApple). I’ve been skiing on an old Racetiger SL and am competitive against GS skis. While I have not skied the Laser GS, the stiffness and the turn characteristics of the WRT, cutting across the fall line rather than a longer arc style make for an intriguing choice.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

I'm not the level of skier as some of these other guys (and I don't have any racing credentials) but I own both the WRT's in 172 and the Laser GS in 175. Skiing them both back to back, the only difference I truly perceive is the GS is makes longer radius turns. That's it. They're both stiff, they both hold an edge like a razor, and they're both fast. Maybe the ONLY other difference I can perceive is I feel like the tail of the WRT wants to hold the edge just a tiiiiiiiny bit longer in the lower portion of the C shape than the GS.

 

[wallyk]

180 is more of a GS ski, whereas the 172 are more slalom-y but not pure SL ski (thankfully).

@Tony Storaro ……if you have a moment could please provide a more technical description of the characteristics between the two? I think you wrote that you have both sizes.

 

[wallyk]

@Jeronimo……Thanks for the description. Would you concur with @Tony Storaro that the turn characteristic of 172 is, for a lack of a better description GS/slalom hybrid?

 

[Tony Storaro]

@Tony Storaro ……if you have a moment could please provide a more technical description of the characteristics between the two? I think you wrote that you have both sizes.

Everything the OP wrote is true.
172 is easier to ski, fairly easy to pressure the tips, ultra fun for everyday use, at 1/3 I'd take it everywhere and know I'll have a blast.
180 is more demanding, more challenging, not easy and not friendly BUT the POWER when you get it right is amazing. You can drive them at speeds faaaaar exceeding the advisable resort speeds and feel like you move at 30 mph. Total rockets.

It all depends on what do you want really.
Everyday fun and blast no matter how you feel-172
Bring your A-game and totally destroy your PRs-180

P.S. I also own GS 180. The WRT is far better ski. For me.
Very much looking forward to the FIS GS 188 next season, now THAT will be different. I think.

 

[Jeronimo]

@Jeronimo……Thanks for the description. Would you concur with @Tony Storaro that the turn characteristic of 172 is, for a lack of a better description GS/slalom hybrid?

I would. I'm currently debating letting go of my Laser GS's in favor of a pair of Laser SX just so I have a carving ski in the quiver that doesn't insist on high edge angles and ludicrous speed. I went 172cm and with the SRT Speedplate on my WRT's and while I think I would have been fine going with the sturdier WRT binding, I'm happy with what I've got. I'm glad I didn't go with the 180cm WRT, because as Tony has so kindly pointed out to us all here repeatedly, HE IS INSANE. and the speeds at which the WRT rips for me are already nail biting fast. I'm more than good with what I've got.

For your original question, the beer league GS race, you could easily go with either the GS or the WRT in that 172-175 length. In fact I think the GS in that 175 would be absolutely perfect, the WRT would probably like it if you turned a little faster and harder, but I would imagine you would be able to let it run a bit. Though the more I think about it, the more I think I would probably prefer the GS in 175 for your application. They really are incredible (just like the WRT's). I'm debating selling mine to drop down to the SX but I don't know that I'm ready to yet, I just had a really reallly reeallllllly fun day at Saddleback with them on the groomer that left me with ear to ear grins.

A more all-rounder GS/SL ski you could easily get away racing in a beer league with would probably be the Laser SX. It seems to be pegged at that tweener range and supposedly has a very wide performance band so you can take as many easy laps as razor edge racing laps as you want. Bonus too is that its just a bit softer so you get kind of the best of both worlds by having a med/long turn radius build that you'll have an easier time flexing down to a shorter turn if you're on your game.

Food for thought.

 

[DocGKR]

I have the 185cm Laser GS. This is the smoothest, most versatile, easiest to ski, long turn sport carver I have ever used--handling lower speed skiing with friends and family, as well as more aggressive zooming on groomers. It is also OK in moguls, as well as a few inches of fresh snow. While not appropriate for a true GS race course (you would need the 25-30m FIS GS ski for that), the 185 Laser GS 19.4m is a delight all over the mountain--so much so that it replaced my 182 AX, as the 185 Laser GS was superior in every respect for me.

 

[Jeronimo]

I have the 185cm Laser GS. This is the smoothest, most versatile, easiest to ski, long turn sport carver I have ever used--handling lower speed skiing with friends and family, as well as more aggressive zooming on groomers. It is also OK in moguls, as well as a few inches of fresh snow. While not appropriate for a true GS race course (you would need the 25-30m FIS GS ski for that), the 185 Laser GS 19.4m is a delight all over the mountain--so much so that it replaced my 182 AX, as the 185 Laser GS was superior in every respect for me.

While I wouldn't say I personally agree, I am simultaneously not even remotely surprised to see any accomplished skier say this about the GS.