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Steelers!

dbostedo

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These players and coaches watch so much film they know down to the player who can block and who can’t and what they are primary area of emphasis needs to be for a particular game. Defensive play is about risk management because you can’t cover the whole field, So these linebackers aren’t coming up hard when they don’t have to.
Except that thinking doesn't appear to show up in the effectiveness of play action in the NFL. It's possible, I suppose, that no NFL team is really so bad at rushing that the LBs and safeties can afford to basically ignore it; though maybe the Steelers are testing that this year. (This could be different in high school or even college too, where the disparity in capability can be a lot larger.)
 

Coach13

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Except that thinking doesn't appear to show up in the effectiveness of play action in the NFL. It's possible, I suppose, that no NFL team is really so bad at rushing that the LBs and safeties can afford to basically ignore it; though maybe the Steelers are testing that this year. (This could be different in high school or even college too, where the disparity in capability can be a lot larger.)

There are a lot of teams the test that every year including one right down the road from us here in DC. No run game equals no passing game equals no offense. It’s a pretty common formula for teams that are consistently bad.
 

crgildart

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I don't care what the experts say... If your o-line/ run game is so terrible that the defense can drop 2 line backers to double up receivers over the middle and still keep the QB and RBs mostly contained you got no RPO.. all you got is bombs and more likely sacks..
 

dbostedo

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There are a lot of teams the test that every year including one right down the road from us here in DC. No run game equals no passing game equals no offense. It’s a pretty common formula for teams that are consistently bad.
I don't care what the experts say... If your o-line/ run game is so terrible that the defense can drop 2 line backers to double up receivers over the middle and still keep the QB and RBs mostly contained you got no RPO.. all you got is bombs and more likely sacks..

But per the earlier articles posted, there does seem to be indication that no matter how bad your running game, or how infrequently you run, you will still see some positive effect of using play action. The implication is that, to some extent, a defense still reacts to the threat of a run no matter how bad the run game.

Note that this doesn't mean a defense overreacts, or a bad offense suddenly becomes good. It just means that the offense become at least a little less bad... that defenses don't literally ignore play action.
 

Coach13

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Note that this doesn't mean a defense overreacts, or a bad offense suddenly becomes good.
We agree here on this statement.

BTW-I never said a defense is going ignore play action with bad running teams. What I said is when a team can’t run the ball the defense isn’t going to react hard to play action the way they do with a good running team. The reason being is they simply know they don’t have to.
 

dbostedo

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We agree here on this statement.

BTW-I never said a defense is going ignore play action with bad running teams. What I said is when a team can’t run the ball the defense isn’t going to react hard to play action the way they do with a good running team. The reason being is they simply know they don’t have to.
Ah... now we're talking shades of grey I suppose.

You seemed to imply that play-action would have no effect with a weak running game. And I took "... I have no reason to bite up hard on the run to leave open space behind me..." to be equivalent to "I can ignore the threat of running". If that's not the case, then you DO buy what I said earlier.
 

James

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Ah... now we're talking shades of grey I suppose.

You seemed to imply that play-action would have no effect with a weak running game. And I took "... I have no reason to bite up hard on the run to leave open space behind me..." to be equivalent to "I can ignore the threat of running". If that's not the case, then you DO buy what I said earlier.
At that level fractions of a second matter. I see what he’s saying as the middle defense does not have to commit early at all, and can spend the time to see what’s developing. It’s not the same as say in practice where they might know brfore it’s a pass play. But it can still feel like a vacation.
 

Coach13

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Ah... now we're talking shades of grey I suppose.

You seemed to imply that play-action would have no effect with a weak running game. And I took "... I have no reason to bite up hard on the run to leave open space behind me..." to be equivalent to "I can ignore the threat of running". If that's not the case, then you DO buy what I said earlier.
“Hard” was the key to what I said. It is what it is.
 

Laurel Hill Crazie

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Wow, that was painful to watch. @dbostedo, I'm inclined to agree that Ben can no longer play. I knew his mobility was limited but I thought he could still make the throws if given time. Yesterday he had the time and receivers open but couldn't make the throw, JuJu, 3 times I think. He is making bad decisions too, like that last interception not that a completion there would have really mattered. What I really didn't expect is for the Defense to suck so bad. All I can say about yesterday's game is Pitt and Penn State won their games.

The Pirates ended the season with their 101 loss. I have little hope for the Pens, both Malkin and Crosby will not be ready for the opener. Steelers and Pens fans are going to eat a lot of humble pie this year. It will be hard going down and leave a bitter aftertaste.
 

dbostedo

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What I really didn't expect is for the Defense to suck so bad.
I've been wondering how much is because the offense is not on the field enough. There's always complicated interactions like that - so it's hard to tease out. But yeah, yesterday looked bad all around - although they weren't really blown out so it wasn't a total collapse. Just a regular one.
 

Laurel Hill Crazie

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I've been wondering how much is because the offense is not on the field enough. There's always complicated interactions like that - so it's hard to tease out. But yeah, yesterday looked bad all around - although they weren't really blown out so it wasn't a total collapse. Just a regular one.

Five consecutive scoring drives by Green Bay. I guess you can hang a hat on the fact that the D held them to 2 field goals but this unit does not look like the top 5 D it as last year and they will face the future young, very good QBs coming up. Maybe we should begin to talk about who the Steelers might pick with what should be a very good draft position. :huh:
 

dbostedo

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Five consecutive scoring drives by Green Bay. I guess you can hang a hat on the fact that the D held them to 2 field goals but this unit does not look like the top 5 D it as last year and they will face the future young, very good QBs coming up. Maybe we should begin to talk about who the Steelers might pick with what should be a very good draft position. :huh:

From the Sporting News mock draft published this week:

15. Pittsburgh Steelers
  • Sam Howell, QB, North Carolina (6-1, 220 pounds)
Ben Roethlisberger already should have a true heir apparent, but this is the best way to replace him 18 years after he went in the first round. The Steelers will be targeting a quarterback who can hang well in the pocket and make all the throws but also has the ability to extend plays with his footwork. Howell is smart, seasoned and accurate.
 

Laurel Hill Crazie

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Hey, they won one, and Ben hit a few long bombs too. Najee Harris had his first 100-yard game running. They also ran more than they passed. The bad news is JuJu Smith-Schuster is done for the season. He will have shoulder surgery later this week. So, did the Steelers find their game, or did the Denver Defense have a bad day? Can Ben still make the throws? The Ohio teams both lost yesterday. The Ravens are playing tonight. The Steelers could be only 1 game down on the rest of the division. Seatle is up next and Russell Wilson is out recovering from 2 surgeries on his finger. This looks like a winnable game. and a bye the following week.
 

doc

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@Laurel Hill Crazie: best temper your enthusiasm. I've been a Broncos fan for over 55 mostly frustrating years and if there is one consistent theme of this club over time, its that they're a perfect antidote for whatever ails their opponent that week. QB looking over the hill? No worries: playing Denver will make him look ten years younger. Spiffy new RB not performing? Don't sweat it; he'll have a breakout game against Denver. Missing a bunch of wideouts? Won't matter with Broncos' overpaid and clueless DBs. Defense can't get a sack on Betty White? No problem: linebackers and defensive ends will draw more holding calls than two sweaty, horny teenagers and spend so much time in Denver backfield they'll have to change residency. Old school coaching style and archaic game plans? Denver's coaching staff will make yours look like the love child of Bill Belechik and Bill Walsh.
 

dbostedo

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@Laurel Hill Crazie: best temper your enthusiasm. I've been a Broncos fan for over 55 mostly frustrating years and if there is one consistent theme of this club over time, its that they're a perfect antidote for whatever ails their opponent that week. QB looking over the hill? No worries: playing Denver will make him look ten years younger. Spiffy new RB not performing? Don't sweat it; he'll have a breakout game against Denver. Missing a bunch of wideouts? Won't matter with Broncos' overpaid and clueless DBs. Defense can't get a sack on Betty White? No problem: linebackers and defensive ends will draw more holding calls than two sweaty, horny teenagers and spend so much time in Denver backfield they'll have to change residency. Old school coaching style and archaic game plans? Denver's coaching staff will make yours look like the love child of Bill Belechik and Bill Walsh.
Eh... you've also got three super bowls... and even worse, the Tim Tebow defeat of the Steelers in the playoffs. :nono:
 

Moose32

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Great time of year to be in the ‘Burgh #yinz
 
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