Sun Valley Freestyle '73 - Rick Glesner Photos

[Uncle-A]

When we were at the press conference for the US Ski & Snowboard Hall of Fame in Park City. I asked Hilary Engisch and Andrew Wienbrech to stand. Hilary was maybe 5 foot nothing and Andrew was let's just say adult size. I asked Hilary what size ski she used when she competed in moguls, she said a 195cm. I asked Andrew what he skied on in GS, he said a 195cm. They were both quiet, then looked at each other and laughed.

I thought I would look at the numbers quickly, 5 ft is about 150 CM and 195 CM is about 77 inchs so she was skiing a ski that was 17 inchs over her head. That seems very long even for old skinny skis. Also at 5 ft how heavy could she have been, 120LBS might be a high guess and at 120 LBS how did she even flex a 195 CM ski? As far as Andrew skiing a 195 CM for GS back in the 1970's that would have been short for a guy skiing GS back than, a 207 CM for GS would be more likely. When they looked at each other and laughed could they have had a private joke going on between them?

 

[Philpug]

I thought I would look at the numbers quickly, 5 ft is about 150 CM and 195 CM is about 77 inchs so she was skiing a ski that was 17 inchs over her head. That seems very long even for old skinny skis. Also at 5 ft how heavy could she have been, 120LBS might be a high guess and at 120 LBS how did she even flex a 195 CM ski? As far as Andrew skiing a 195 CM for GS back in the 1970's that would have been short for a guy skiing GS back than, a 207 CM for GS would be more likely. When they looked at each other and laughed could they have had a private joke going on between them?

A mogul skier tended to ski a softer ski so a it wouldn't have been overly stiff plus she was arguably the best female mogul skier in the world at her peak, so I don't think flexing a ski was an issue. Andrew skied a modern GS ski which is a 195cm, yes a GS ski in a previous time was a 207-210, not when he was competing.

 

[Bad Bob]

There was a lot more variance in the flex of a model of ski at that point. You would stand in the shop and check the flex of a dozen pairs of whatever length you wanted to find the right flex for you. Pairs were normally the same but pair to pair could have a very wide difference in flex. Foam core or hollow core skis (like the XR-1) were normally more consistent.

 

[Uncle-A]

A mogul skier tended to ski a softer ski so a it wouldn't have been overly stiff plus she was arguably the best female mogul skier in the world at her peak, so I don't think flexing a ski was an issue. Andrew skied a modern GS ski which is a 195cm, yes a GS ski in a previous time was a 207-210, not when he was competing.

In 72 - 73 the Rossi Roc 550 was the top selling GS ski, later it would be renamed to the Rossi SM. The ski was recommended to be skied about 8 inches to 10 inches over the head of the skier. Yes it was softer than the Rossi St 650 the SL Ski but still not a soft ski by standards of the day. I would love to know what brand and model they skied back in the day.

 

[Philpug]

In 72 - 73 the Rossi Roc 550 was the top selling GS ski, later it would be renamed to the Rossi SM. The ski was recommended to be skied about 8 inches to 10 inches over the head of the skier. Yes it was softer than the Rossi St 650 the SL Ski but still not a soft ski by standards of the day. I would love to know what brand and model they skied back in the day.

Not sure why you are going back to the early 1970's but Hilary skied in the early 1980's, I am not sure what skis she was on, I did find an image of her on Kneissl though. and Andrew competed in the 2014 Olympics and was on Head.

 

[Uncle-A]

Not sure why you are going back to the early 1970's but Hilary skied in the early 1980's, I am not sure what skis she was on, I did find an image of her on Kneissl though. and Andrew competed in the 2014 Olympics and was on Head.

Only because of the name of the thread. Now the 195 CM for Andrew makes sense. In the early 80's there were lots of bump skis so I don't get why she would still ski a 195 CM. Maybe she skied one of those long soft skis that flexed like a wet noodle. I remember that Lange made one that was particularly soft, you could almost flex it into a U shape.

 

[dan ross]

Maybe some of our more senior members can tell us when the first bump or freestyle skis first showed up on the market. Paging @Bill Talbot the site historian to share his expertise.

I’d say...’74 Bobby Burns made his skis pretty much specifically for bumps. Mark IV’s and Hart Freestyles came out the same year,
K2 244’s in 75(?) I’m sure I’m forgetting something but any ski designed for freestyle then was pretty much a bump ski as far as that went.

 

[dan ross]

Use to ski with Mike King (who won that event in 72?). Yes they were very good. Mike would and could ski a zipper line in the bumps then on a pair of 200s.

Yes, he could but bumps were bigger and rounder then - as skis got shorter the bumps became tighter and less rounded.
If you look at pictures from the late 60’s-to early 70’s of mogul fields in Aspen or Sun Valleys, you’ll see big rounded bumps made by people on 200’s

 

[Bad Bob]

Yes, he could but bumps were bigger and rounder then - as skis got shorter the bumps became tighter and less rounded.
If you look at pictures from the late 60’s-to early 70’s of mogul fields in Aspen or Sun Valleys, you’ll see big rounded bumps made by people on 200’s

Oh ya Dan I was there for the 'Short Skis Suck' era. The bumps did change and the surfaces keep on changing with every change in technology. Look at snowboards and loose snow. It just means we have to adapt to something different.

 

[dan ross]

When we were at the press conference for the US Ski & Snowboard Hall of Fame in Park City. I asked Hilary Engisch and Andrew Wienbrech to stand. Hilary was maybe 5 foot nothing and Andrew was let's just say adult size. I asked Hilary what size ski she used when she competed in moguls, she said a 195cm. I asked Andrew what he skied on in GS, he said a 195cm. They were both quiet, then looked at each other and laughed.

Your are on to something here regarding height. A lot of great mogul skiers are on the short side -Hillary Engisch and Jack Taylor come immediately to mind . When I competed it seemed most of the best ( amateur) bump skiers including Greg Stump, who won everything, were on the shorter side, all under 6’ by at least a few inches. Is it a center of gravity thing? Maybe....I know there are notable exceptions to this rule but I think it’s advantage in the bumps.

 

[dan ross]

Oh ya Dan I was there for the 'Short Skis Suck' era. The bumps did change and the surfaces keep on changing with every change in technology. Look at snowboards and loose snow. It just means we have to adapt to something different.

That said, those big old rounded bumps look like fun - missed them by a few years.

 

[Don in Morrison]

I’d say...’74 Bobby Burns made his skis pretty much specifically for bumps. Mark IV’s and Hart Freestyles came out the same year,
K2 244’s in 75(?) I’m sure I’m forgetting something but any ski designed for freestyle then was pretty much a bump ski as far as that went.

The hart ballet was also introduced in '74, along with the freestyle. The ballet was initially labelled "swivel stick".

 

[Uncle-A]

I can only make some educated guesses. I'm too young!
Freestyle skis started appearing in the early 70's and were flourishing by the mid 70's. K2, Olin, Rossi, the SKI, Head, Hexcel, Hart, Kästle, Kneissl, etc, etc. All the manufactures wanted in on the new action!

Here's some
View attachment 139386

BTW, I have a pair of those Kastle Freestyle Pro's in a 170 CM. They skied well the last time I skied them and probably still will.

 

[dan ross]

The hart ballet was also introduced in '74, along with the freestyle. The ballet was initially labelled "swivel stick".

I saw a pair of swivel sticks - yellow I believe with the navy lettering.

 

[dan ross]

BTW, I have a pair of those Kästle Freestyle Pro's in a 170 CM. They skied well the last time I skied them and probably still will.

I always wanted to try those in the day -didn’t they have a p-Tex top? They looked like fun.

 

[Uncle-A]

I always wanted to try those in the day -didn’t they have a p-Tex top? They looked like fun.

Mine are mounted with Look bindings and my BSL is a 305 but the Gran Prix heel wings are moved all the way up so they can be adjusted back to at least a 320 BSL maybe more. If you ever get near NJ and want to give them to try let me know. The vintage I have do not have a P-Tex top. I remember that one or two skis had a P-Tex top but I thought one of them was a Spaulding ski and the other may have been a Kastle but I can't put my finger on the model.

 

[dan ross]

Mine are mounted with Look bindings and my BSL is a 305 but the Gran Prix heel wings are moved all the way up so they can be adjusted back to at least a 320 BSL maybe more. If you ever get near NJ and want to give them to try let me know. The vintage I have do not have a P-Tex top. I remember that one or two skis had a P-Tex top but I thought one of them was a Spaulding ski and the other may have been a Kästle but I can't put my finger on the model.

Thanks! No plans to be near the garden state in winter but you never know. I always thought those were great looking skis my BSl is 315...

 

[skiJ]

holy thread drift, Batman -

A lot here since Phil asked Hilary Englisch and Andrew Weinbrecht to compare the lengths of skis they skied in different eras -

Because this is a 1973 Sun Valley mogul thread, I believe many (myself included) thought Hilary Englisch skied in the 1970s -
Phil says, no(,) it was the 1980s -
by 1980, there were lots of freestyle specific models - available in a wide range of lengths ;
the better skiers still skied on long skis
( Bump skiers would likely be on a long, soft flexing ( But not too soft, Because they needed a ski with rapid rebound )
( Plake was skiing zipper lines on 207s. or 212s (in the '80s )
granted Hilary was not Plake - But a Strong, fast, compact skier in the early 1980s would certainly have been on a long ski. )

Andrew Weinbrecht ( -as Phil has pointed-out- ) skied and competed in a different era - GS skis of the 2010s. Not 210s, but GS skis of the era - which as Phil has said ( -including Andrew's report in Phil's tale - ) were 195cms.

different eras.

remember Dynastar Verticals ? or Rossis Smashs ? of Hart Freestyles and later F17s ?
( I would feel negligent not to mention the K2 Winterheat, though I did not see a lot of them where I skied...
( and K2 255s. I had a pair of 255s ; to me, they skied like a slalom ski ) - )
oh. and The Ski ! one of the early Free Spirit skis ! ! )

these were the later mogul skis of my younger days --


thanks for the memories... skiJ

postscript. Rossi also had a model they called the Freestyle - More than forty years later, I believe it preceded the Smash, and briefly shared space in the line with the (Rossi) Smash...

 

[Uncle-A]

Thanks! No plans to be near the garden state in winter but you never know. I always thought those were great looking skis my BSl is 315...

315 BSL No problem. BTW we have the indoor skiing year round here in NJ. I am planning a indoor skiing trip sometime this month but a two hour block is all I need with out getting bored.

 

[dan ross]

315 BSL No problem. BTW we have the indoor skiing year round here in NJ. I am planning a indoor skiing trip sometime this month but a two hour block is all I need with out getting bored.

I’m really surprised there aren’t more indoor areas in the U.S. -
twice as many at least ...which would be...2?