SureFoot Liners and Boot Question

[USCskibum]

Looking at going the SureFoot route after struggling to get a good fit from previous boot fitter(s)/shops. In my experience everyone seems to have a different method with some contradicting others.

Current boot is a Lange RX 130 which I was fitted for based upon my foot interaction with the shell (fitted in Sun Valley). I was put into a 27.5 after I was told a 28.5 was too big. My feet measure 281/282 mm and based upon some initial conversations with a SureFoot shop, I was told that a 275mm boot would be an “aggressive” setup and they would recommend a 285mm boot.

Looking for and advice with people you have experience with SureFoot. If I went 275mm could the liners be put later in a 285 boot (I’m assuming the answer would be “NO”, not ideal)? Would SureFoot swap/redo boots or liners if the fit was not good? I know I should ask SureFoot directly, but wanted to see if anyone has had similar experiences good or bad?

 

[Philpug]

Surefoot is going to put you in a 28.5 boot because their liner takes up a lot of volume and they need the space for it. Is their system better for you? We don't know. Is the Lange RX 130 the right 27.5 for you? We don't know. What do know that you are un happy with your fit and without seeing what is going on, we don't know what will be best for you.

 

[cem]

with measurements that you have given a 275 could well work for you and probably should, (assuming you are not a low level skier wanting to slide between coffee stops) that said as Phil said above nobody on an internet forum can tell you what size is best, as a fitter (not wanting to insult surefoot too much) they have a process just like other fitters have a process, it is finding the process that works for you, nothing in this world is standard, you have not actually said what the problems you have had in boots in the past are? that might give a better idea of what is going on, if it is just a length concern and you have the 275 there is no reason why a decent boot fitter can't give you the couple of mm you might need. all of this is about assessment, if the assessment isn't good then the end result isn't going to be good.

it might be a case of change but it might not be the change you think you need, where are you based? there are a network of great fitters around the world and we should be able to point you towards an independent who can carry out an assessment and get you a solution

 

[fatbob]

No direct Surefoot experience other than a negative customer service experience in their Breck shop when I went in to enquire about replacing a buckle and they negged me and tried to sell me on a whole new boot package which was not going to happen ever.

My perception is that they are a marketing business first and foremost and that most skiers would do better with a shell and a zipfit liner from a proper bootfitter.

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

They’re called SoreFoot for a reason…

 

[USCskibum]

with measurements that you have given a 275 could well work for you and probably should, (assuming you are not a low level skier wanting to slide between coffee stops) that said as Phil said above nobody on an internet forum can tell you what size is best, as a fitter (not wanting to insult surefoot too much) they have a process just like other fitters have a process, it is finding the process that works for you, nothing in this world is standard, you have not actually said what the problems you have had in boots in the past are? that might give a better idea of what is going on, if it is just a length concern and you have the 275 there is no reason why a decent boot fitter can't give you the couple of mm you might need. all of this is about assessment, if the assessment isn't good then the end result isn't going to be good.

it might be a case of change but it might not be the change you think you need, where are you based? there are a network of great fitters around the world and we should be able to point you towards an independent who can carry out an assessment and get you a solution

Thanks for all the feedback!

My current issue is some tingling/falling asleep at the toes and ball of the foot from pressure. Certainly not an expert in boot fitting, but can only assume that the Lange RX 130 were sized/recommended based upon the boot fitters assessment at the time. I was in a pair of Tecnica Mach1 MV 285, his recommendation was that I should be in a 275 to prevent my foot from slipping while looking at the amount of space/volume within the boots while standing in them bare foot. His assessment was that the Lange boot in 275 was a better fit.

SureFoot seems to have a different approach and so far based upon my experiences it seems like everyone may have a slightly different approach depending on where you go…so who is right and who is wrong? Still struggling to find that “Bingo”, “Lightbulb”, “Magical” fit that says this is it!!!

 

[Noodler]

I'm just going to shoot straight on this and say take our advice for what it's worth (a bunch of people on a ski forum), but there is almost never a case where someone with your foot length should be in a size 28 shell. Honestly, that's a lazy salesman taking the easy way out and it will most likely not result in happiness for you when it comes to the comfort and performance of your ski boots. A boot shell that's too big is not a comfortable boot when actually skiing in it.

You now have the advice of two professional boot fitters and a couple serious long time skiers. I hope you seriously give it consideration.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Here are some previous threads about Surefoot worth reading.
https://www.skitalk.com/threads/buh-bye-surefoot-hello-mike.16399/
https://www.skitalk.com/threads/surefoot-or-normal-bootfitter.18861/

 

[cantunamunch]

My current issue is some tingling/falling asleep at the toes and ball of the foot from pressure. Certainly not an expert in boot fitting, but can only assume that the Lange RX 130 were sized/recommended based upon the boot fitters assessment at the time. I was in a pair of Tecnica Mach1 MV 285, his recommendation was that I should be in a 275 to prevent my foot from slipping while looking at the amount of space/volume within the boots while standing in them bare foot. His assessment was that the Lange boot in 275 was a better fit.

Reading this, I no longer believe you need to read more Surefoot threads. I actually think your issue is most closely addressed here:

Need Bootfitting Advice - numbness

I have used intuition liners and now have boot docs. The boot docs give me a better fit and the issue is marginally better, but it’s not a liner caused problem. I've had Intuition liners in the past and am now using the stock liners and it's worse in these boots. Also previous boots were...

www.skitalk.com

 

[USCskibum]

Thank you to everyone for the input!

 

[coops]

The two pro boot fitters mentioned are being polite/diplomatic.

Don't for the love of gawd go to Surefoot - there's an outside chance you may run into a decent bootfitter there, bit it's nearly the same probability as finding one in your nearest Walmart.

another Skitalk thread for you

Boot Question

I am also intrigued as to what is a "Florida fit"? I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is -

www.skitalk.com

"I'm glad you've managed to get decent boots from Surefoot.
Mine were terrible, as were my best friends wife's - and they told her they'd shaved down the boot board to relieve pressure she had on a problem area on her forefoot... except later at Jams, park City, it turned out the board hadd 't been touched at all.

I'd say either a good foam fit or zipfit liner is best - and lace up liner is lovely as you are then not cranking the shell closed to get that liner snugged up round your foot.

A foam liner is NO guarantee of a good fit all - first a decent bootfiter will select a SHELL that is a decent starting point for that persons foot and their skiing style and ability, then alter the shell as needed and only then foam or fit the zipfit liner.

On the other hand... what is the percentage of people coming out of a Surefoot shop in Lange shells?

A lazy/mediocre/bored 'fitter' at Surefoot can either adjust a shell as needed... or size up a bit and 'fill her up' with foam. Job done... at least for a few days and they'll be gone elsewhere anyway if that persons comes in to complain and take 'advantage' of a lifetime fit guarantee."

 

[USCskibum]

The two pro boot fitters mentioned are being polite/diplomatic.

Don't for the love of gawd go to Surefoot - there's an outside chance you may run into a decent bootfitter there, bit it's nearly the same probability as finding one in your nearest Walmart.

another Skitalk thread for you

Boot Question

I am also intrigued as to what is a "Florida fit"? I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is -

www.skitalk.com

"I'm glad you've managed to get decent boots from Surefoot.
Mine were terrible, as were my best friends wife's - and they told her they'd shaved down the boot board to relieve pressure she had on a problem area on her forefoot... except later at Jams, park City, it turned out the board hadd 't been touched at all.

I'd say either a good foam fit or zipfit liner is best - and lace up liner is lovely as you are then not cranking the shell closed to get that liner snugged up round your foot.

A foam liner is NO guarantee of a good fit all - first a decent bootfiter will select a SHELL that is a decent starting point for that persons foot and their skiing style and ability, then alter the shell as needed and only then foam or fit the zipfit liner.

On the other hand... what is the percentage of people coming out of a Surefoot shop in Lange shells?

A lazy/mediocre/bored 'fitter' at Surefoot can either adjust a shell as needed... or size up a bit and 'fill her up' with foam. Job done... at least for a few days and they'll be gone elsewhere anyway if that persons comes in to complain and take 'advantage' of a lifetime fit guarantee."

With regards to Zipfit, I’m slightly confused with their online recommendation of their Sidewinder vs. Gara liner (using their online fitting questions/recommendation)? The Sidewinder is supposed to have MORE of the cork material than the Gara and is supposed to be recommended for those with larger calves.

Seems like a liner with MORE material would possibly cause more pressure point issues, IF I have a boot that is already a tight/low volume fit? As compared to the standard-stock Lange liner I would assume the Zipfit may take up more volume within the shell?

 

[Noodler]

With regards to Zipfit, I’m slightly confused with their online recommendation of their Sidewinder vs. Gara liner (using their online fitting questions/recommendation)? The Sidewinder is supposed to have MORE of the cork material than the Gara and is supposed to be recommended for those with larger calves.

Seems like a liner with MORE material would possibly cause more pressure point issues, IF I have a boot that is already a tight/low volume fit? As compared to the standard-stock Lange liner I would assume the Zipfit may take up more volume within the shell?

All ZipFit liners can have the OMFit cork material added/removed very easily. They're only describing how much they start with in relation to each other.

There simply is no comparison of a cork filled liner versus a standard stock foam liner when it comes to performance.

 

[USCskibum]

All ZipFit liners can have the OMFit cork material added/removed very easily. They're only describing how much they start with in relation to each other.

There simply is no comparison of a cork filled liner versus a standard stock foam liner when it comes to performance.

What if you can not use the velcro strap on the ZipFit due to lower leg / calves being a large diameter of muscle?? For example, if it took too much force are caused the liners to be too tight trying to cinch down the velcro straps? Would this be a poor fit or improper fit?

 

[Rostapher]

What if you can not use the velcro strap on the ZipFit due to lower leg / calves being a large diameter of muscle?? For example, if it took too much force are caused the liners to be too tight trying to cinch down the velcro straps? Would this be a poor fit or improper fit?

The zipfit Velcro strap took up too much room under my shell cuff & a zipfit fitter recommended I just ditch them all together so I did. They really aren’t necessary. Instead I run a Booster strap under the top edge of the cuff & it works great.
ZipFit >>> Surefoot

 

[Noodler]

What if you can not use the velcro strap on the ZipFit due to lower leg / calves being a large diameter of muscle?? For example, if it took too much force are caused the liners to be too tight trying to cinch down the velcro straps? Would this be a poor fit or improper fit?

I have never used that strap. Removing that strap is the first thing I do when I get a new pair of Zips.

 

[bailey35mm]

What if you can not use the velcro strap on the ZipFit due to lower leg / calves being a large diameter of muscle?? For example, if it took too much force are caused the liners to be too tight trying to cinch down the velcro straps? Would this be a poor fit or improper fit?

If you reach out to Zipfit via email, they can send you a longer strap.

 

[cem]

What if you can not use the velcro strap on the ZipFit due to lower leg / calves being a large diameter of muscle?? For example, if it took too much force are caused the liners to be too tight trying to cinch down the velcro straps? Would this be a poor fit or improper fit?

as others have said, ditch it, contact zipfit for a longer one (there are 3 sizes) or speak to your boot fitter about extending it a little, simple job to do

 

[givethepigeye]

@USCskibum - I don’t use that Velcro strap either. You dont need it.

on the other stuff…I personally have been through the Surefoot deal, have used stock liners, have had a “well known“ boot guy do foam injected liners and now on my second pair of ZipFit. Also have a bit of a odd foot shape, not crazy, but different.

Surefoot - look, it’s a business, a formula - are there good people there? Sure, but you need to know “who” and “where”. Likely you will be in too big a shell and they will not really dig in on what shell you should be in + you will need to buy their crappy footbeds. Also, I found thsir liners very cold. I have had them do work to my shells ie. adding rubber soles to replace the solid lifters on my RS130s when another “boot specialist” could not be bothered with such a task. So, no axe to grind with them at all. Just go in eyes wide open.

Foamed Liners - made an appointment, flew across county, he f’d them up (only person in the store at the time, then got busy, wasn’t paying attention). Tried to fix by grinding my shells vs redoing them. Disaster, ended up throwing away and didn’t even get my $ back. Lesson learned. Caveat Emptor. “supposed expert”.

Stock Liners - if you are in the “right shell” these will be fine for 30-50 or more days. So, find the the “right” boot fitter, preferably at the bottom of 4k of vert, where you ski often and can stop by and tweak. Any amount you pay will be worth it, once you are in the right shell for your skiing and foot.

THEN….when your liners pack out, replace with ZipFits. Trying to throw $s at it with multiple variables (shell/liner/fitter) is a long miserable road. <- ask me how I know.

The right shell will set you free. Then buy a back-up.

just my $0.02

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

^^^^This is gold. Well said, @givethepigeye. Hope our paths can cross, I’ll buy the beer, Manhattans, etc.