Swiss ski core manufacturer Hess to close

[cantunamunch]

So another supplier restarting the business in Switzerland is a nonstarter for now?

It would be interesting if it was restarted in ... Mexico or Canada.

 

[Average Joe]

It would be interesting if it was restarted in ... Mexico or Canada.

Maybe Poland? Part of the EU, and the hardwood supplies are local. And South America, where they have plywood manufacturers.
Rotary cut veneers are not so rare that they can't be produced in other locations, but the quality has to be there to be used as a ski core.

All depends on where the ski production migrates to, given the sky high energy costs in Europe right now. Already some has gone to China.

The US domestic production is now near zero, but much can change over the next 10 years given security issues and energy costs.

 

[cantunamunch]

Maybe Poland? Part of the EU, and the hardwood supplies are local.

I was specifically thinking of places where energy costs are relatively low - and that have weaker currencies than the CHF or USD. Poland is not going to have significantly lower energy cost.

All depends on where the ski production migrates to, given the sky high energy costs in Europe right now. Already some has gone to China.

 

[Swiss Toni]

The logical place to move core production to would be somewhere in eastern Europe, maybe Romania, there are extensive beech forests there, labor is cheap and the supply lines to the ski factories aren’t very long.

Hess makes all 3 types of core, along with the rotary cut veneer cores they also make the cores that are made from stacks of glued up boards and hybrid cores in which there are usually a couple of strips of lightweight wood sandwiched between some rotary cut veneer core material. It will be pretty easy to find a home for the stacked board core production line but, the plywood manufacturing machinery is pretty heavy duty so will take some moving. They have a corporate video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ailYf2fYB8 which shows how plywood is made, at around 12:17 there are some shots of a slab of RCV core material being trimmed and at 13:35 you can see the slab being cut into core banks on a frame saw.

In the interview that Marc Gläser gave to the Handelszeitung (link in OP) he was asked about price rises as a result of Marco Odermatt signing a 4-year contract with Stöckli, his reply:

“If we have to raise prices, it's more likely because of the massive increase in the cost of materials. The price increases come every month. We're talking about a good 10 to 15 percent year-on-year. And the fact that the wood supplier Hess is closing down at the end of the year doesn't help either. Another supplier has just informed us that his product will be 20 percent more expensive from next month.”

The alternative to price rises is usually cost cutting, I think it’s likely some of the more expensive materials will be substituted with cheaper ones.

 

[Tony Storaro]

So is it time to stock up I wonder? If the quality will go down from here and they will go light on the baby seal skin in the future, perhaps now is the moment for 2-3 new pairs of SR95 and same number of WRT’s…

 

[Swiss Toni]

Might not be a bad idea. It will be interesting to see what happens as a result of this, approx. 80% of the volume of a ski is made up of the core, it has a considerable effect on performance.

 

[James]

The ski manufactures will be able to get by without them, for consumer skis they will probably just use the less expensive glued laminated timber cores. There are 2 companies in Slovenia that manufacture these, they are currently mainly used in mid-range carving skis and wide skis, racing and high-end carving skis usually have cores made from rotary cut veneers. So we will likely be getting cores with less performance for the same price.

The cores in the top stack of are made from glued laminated finger jointed poplar boards, the ones in the bottom stack are made from rotary cut beech and poplar veneers.

View attachment 184009


Ski cores are very much a niche product, compared to other laminated wood products demand is negligible. The forests in the Nordic countries are mainly coniferous forests, ski cores are mainly made from European hardwoods, the most widely used woods are poplar and beech. The Scandinavian plywood mills probably wouldn’t be interested as they mainly make birch and spruce plywood.

China isn't really an option, they do make ski cores, but they are pretty basic. As they are made in pretty small batches, the ski manufacturers specify what the cores are to be made from and how they are laid up I doubt that they would be interested.

I don’t get how the laminated veneer cores are made. Are they laminating huge sheets say 150mm thick, alternating types of woods, however thick the customer wants each layer, taking a vertical slice through that, the width of slice is the thickness of the core, and rotating it 90deg? So vertical layers in manufacturing become horizontal layers in the ski core.

 

[Swiss Toni]

It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how they are made! Unlike regular plywood, the veneers are all laid up with the grain running in the same direction. The thickness of the finished sheet is a bit thicker than the maximum width required for the finished core, to allow for shaping, and the thickness of the slices that are cut from the sheet is a bit more than the thickest part of the finished core, to allow for profiling.

 

[James]

It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how they are made! Unlike regular plywood, the veneers are all laid up with the grain running in the same direction. The thickness of the finished sheet is a bit thicker than the maximum width required for the finished core, to allow for shaping, and the thickness of the slices that are cut from the sheet is a bit more than the thickest part of the finished core, to allow for profiling.

Very cool. Only 20% more for that method is very reasonable.
It’s sad it’s disappearing. They should start in Canada with hydro power. Plenty of Birch, Poplar and Beech in North America.

 

[Black Dog]

I have been the same type of industry for over 50 years. The closings are happing at an alarming rate.
As I said above , if you cannot get financing you cannot survive.




HIGH POINT — United Furniture has terminated all employees. The company, which has operated under the Lane brand in recent years, sent an e-mail, overnight, that immediately terminates all employees, with the exception of over-the-road drivers currently out on delivery.

Update: Details emerge on Lane's termination of all employees - Furniture Today

United Furniture Inds. has terminated all employees.

www.furnituretoday.com

AUCTION CLOSING TODAY
Adams Wood Products - Complete Plant Closure - Morristown, TN
AUCTION ENDS: NOVEMBER 30, 2022 @ 9:00AM PST​

AUCTION​

Purewood Inc 100,000 Sq Ft Complete Company Closure - in Brampton, Canada​

After 35 Years in Business PUREWOOD INC is Closing Their Doors. All the Machinery, Accessories & Material will be Sold in This NO RESERVE AUCTION.
INSPECTION DAY: Wed, Nov 30 (10am - 3pm)

 

[Lorenzzo]

It seems as though there are important parts to the story we haven’t gotten. Companies move operations to areas with lower cost labor and production all the time.

 

[James]

It seems as though there are important parts to the story we haven’t gotten. Companies move operations to areas with lower cost labor and production all the time.

It’s a Swiss family co, not a multi national.

 

[Wendy]

I have been the same type of industry for over 50 years. The closings are happing at an alarming rate.
As I said above , if you cannot get financing you cannot survive.




HIGH POINT — United Furniture has terminated all employees. The company, which has operated under the Lane brand in recent years, sent an e-mail, overnight, that immediately terminates all employees, with the exception of over-the-road drivers currently out on delivery.

Update: Details emerge on Lane's termination of all employees - Furniture Today

United Furniture Inds. has terminated all employees.

www.furnituretoday.com

AUCTION CLOSING TODAY​

Adams Wood Products - Complete Plant Closure - Morristown, TN​

AUCTION ENDS: NOVEMBER 30, 2022 @ 9:00AM PST​

AUCTION​

Purewood Inc 100,000 Sq Ft Complete Company Closure - in Brampton, Canada​

After 35 Years in Business PUREWOOD INC is Closing Their Doors. All the Machinery, Accessories & Material will be Sold in This NO RESERVE AUCTION.
INSPECTION DAY: Wed, Nov 30 (10am - 3pm)

My BIL owns a small company in OH that made doors. Most were laminates. He closed up shop and is auctioning off his equipment.

 

[Lorenzzo]

It’s a Swiss family co, not a multi national.

I don’t see the constraint. If the family is no longer interested in operating the business competitively or doesn’t wanna leave Switzerland, then if it’s viable they would sell. If the issue is cost of doing business in Switzerland, that’s what would tend to result. If the issue is a disappearing market that’s a separate issue but it doesn’t sound as though that’s the case. It’s either a viable product at a price above cost at a low cost manufacturing location or it isn’t a viable product. I have a hard time believing they’re the only ones capable of doing it. We’re not talking about low altitude high velocity missiles . The information we have doesn’t add up.

 

[Average Joe]

Businesses close, relocate, and adapt all the time, but it‘s particularly bad timing that an established high quality family owned supplier if a critical component used in our (beloved) high performance skis is suddenly gone.
Rotary cut veneers are not a proprietary product, but the expertise that makes them usable for ski, cabinet, and furniture manufacturers is not easily replaceable by moving the production to a lower cost area, at least at the beginning of the process.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Moving production to Canada wouldn’t work as the supply lines would be too long, the production site needs to be close enough to the ski factories to allow delivery by truck. These days skis mainly made to order and seem to be made in small batches, so I presume the ski manufacturers place an order for cores based on orders/sales estimates for the coming season and call them off as and when needed.

The Canadian plywood manufacturers probably make standard products, the probably wouldn’t be interested in making small quantities of bespoke products. The ski manufacturers design the cores; Hess just makes them.

In 2012 Willy Booker the then president of Nordica USA, did a factory tour of the Blizzard/Nordica factory. Blizzard/Nordica claim to have the most expertise in ski core design, so there is a fair bit of information about wood cores in the video.



I don’t think there’s much point in hypothesizing about the reasons why Hess is going out of business or where ski cores could be made in the future. As things stand they will close at the end of January next year, they are currently fulfilling existing orders after these are completed they won’t be making anymore ski cores. As Hess is a major and long-time supplier of all types of wood ski cores it might not be easy to replace them before ski manufacturing for next season starts next April.

 

[justplanesteve]

So how much does a rotary poplar core for a high-end ski line cost the ski manufacturer, and what is a minimum order or standard skid quantity? Ditto for the parallel sliced wood lam style?

smt

 

[Swiss Toni]

I don’t know, information on pricing is confidential. The price will depend on what woods are used how many you buy and how complicated the lay up is. The Blizzard TrueBlend core has a pretty complicated layup



From what I have heard, on average a RCV core costs around 20% more than a glued up board core, but I wouldn’t take that as gospel.

 

[AlexisLD]

I don’t know, information on pricing is confidential. The price will depend on what woods are used how many you buy and how complicated the lay up is. The Blizzard TrueBlend core has a pretty complicated layup

I don't understand why they go through such a complicated process to make their core when the stiffness can be adjusted with the thickness of the core and the fibers used in the laminate. Especially if they really adjust the blend of wood for different ski lengths...

 

[James]

I don't understand why they go through such a complicated process to make their core when the stiffness can be adjusted with the thickness of the core and the fibers used in the laminate. Especially if they really adjust the blend of wood for different ski lengths...

So stiffness is the only property of a core?