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Swix Base Prep wax vs CH

Rope Tow

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Anyone familiar with swix bp waxes vs CH waxes? Have been using CH10 as initial prep wax after grinds and dominator renew with colder wax of the day on top which worked well, but am running out of dominator and can get swix cheap. Any big difference between BP99 and CH 10? For BP 88 and BP77 do they work well as both a base prep and a final wax ?

Want to get good base penetration and durability as we have really abrasive man-made snow so I get a lot of base burn and resulting wear next to edge if I don't keep bases saturated. The BP77 and BP88 sound like they would be like dominator renew, but temperature specific enough to use as wax of the day, but do they need something like CH over top for durability?

Thanks
 

Primoz

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BP are meant to be preparation waxes, while CH10 is normal glide wax. There's two things why BP (either 77 or 88) are better then normal glide wax. First, it penetrates better, and it saturates ptex better then normal glide wax, even if it's warm wax. And second, but with this I'm going deep into racing, and even that into xc racing where things are way more anal as in alpine, for cold skis you should never use warm waxes, even for preparation of new skis, and wise versa goes for warm skis, which should never see cold waxes anywhere near ptex.
Another thing... while you can still use BP as glide wax, normal glide wax works just so much better it's worth waxing with normal wax, even though it sounds stupid doing this. Normally skis should always have "transport wax" on them. That means, when you are done skiing, you wipe skis dry, put wax on (BP77, BP88 or MB77) but don't scrape. When you go skiing again, you scrap this "transport wax" off, and wax real glide wax. For most of people it's overkill, but that's how it's properly done :)
 

Dakine

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All true what Primoz says.
Lower budget racers will use CH7 or LF7 as transport wax because, if you don't have time to wax properly, these waxes can be scraped and will run decently in most conditions.
The differences in BP77 and BP88 are in the distribution of molecular weight of the wax molecules.
77 has to have more big molecules.
I also expect the difference between BP and CH waxes is that the BP series has more little molecules that will really penetrate and wet the base.
All this stuff is deep double secret and nobody really knows unless they have worked with the wax manufacturer.
 

Corgski

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Another thing... while you can still use BP as glide wax, normal glide wax works just so much better it's worth waxing with normal wax, even though it sounds stupid doing this. Normally skis should always have "transport wax" on them. That means, when you are done skiing, you wipe skis dry, put wax on (BP77, BP88 or MB77) but don't scrape. When you go skiing again, you scrap this "transport wax" off, and wax real glide wax. For most of people it's overkill, but that's how it's properly done :)

Thanks, I have been wondering about this for a while. You would think that information like this would be easier to find.

How bad is a mismatch between your base prep and the final conditions and wax? Say having a colder base prep but just using a warmer glide wax in warmer conditions and vice versa? If conditions change, is one supposed to get out the base cleaner and start from scratch?
 

KevinF

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So how many coats of base prep wax is considered 'adequate"? I've usually put on two or three coats (hot wax, cool, scrape, brush, repeat...) but I've done zero scientific study to determine if it's doing anything
 

Jacques

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Anyone familiar with swix bp waxes vs CH waxes? Have been using CH10 as initial prep wax after grinds and dominator renew with colder wax of the day on top which worked well, but am running out of dominator and can get swix cheap. Any big difference between BP99 and CH 10? For BP 88 and BP77 do they work well as both a base prep and a final wax ?

Want to get good base penetration and durability as we have really abrasive man-made snow so I get a lot of base burn and resulting wear next to edge if I don't keep bases saturated. The BP77 and BP88 sound like they would be like dominator renew, but temperature specific enough to use as wax of the day, but do they need something like CH over top for durability?

Thanks

Dominator Graphite Base Renew. Works with any waxes as the base prep. wax. :micdrop:
 

Primoz

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How bad is a mismatch between your base prep and the final conditions and wax?
For normal use, just don't worry. I have been in xc skiing for way too long so I still look on all this from that point of view. It's true that in xc skiing you win or lose medals because of skis (in alpine you normally don't), and therefore it's seriously anal when it comes to this. It goes to such extend that you basically never ever touch base of ski without gloves etc. But for normal use, where 0.01sec doesn't matter, just don't worry. Honestly, nowadays I quite often ski with BP88 or BP77, so you know it's not all that bad :)

So how many coats of base prep wax is considered 'adequate"? I've usually put on two or three coats (hot wax, cool, scrape, brush, repeat...) but I've done zero scientific study to determine if it's doing anything
For racing... about 20 cycles is lower limit ;) For normal use with sintered bases I would say some 5, 6 cycles are all that you need. And then of course you keep waxing pretty much after every ski day. With extruded bases, you basically don't need this at all, as base hardly takes any wax at all. Even with sintered bases, lower end skis have so bad ptex, it takes much much less wax then ptex on race skis for example, whick also brings us to this, that fewer cycles are enough. But you can see this yourself. As long as you iron wax in, and you can see base is "soaking" wax in, you keep waxing. Once it doesn't do this anymore, you are good to go (hope this makes sense, but it's kinda hard to explain these things when your English sucks... sorry guys :) )
 

hbear

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Swix two told me a while back the CH has some silicone in it? Whereas the BP doesn’t.

No idea if this is true or not. I just use BP to prep as that’s what it was designed for. A sliver cheaper than CH too.
 
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Rope Tow

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Sorry for delayed response but was out skiing today:)

... while you can still use BP as glide wax, normal glide wax works just so much better it's worth waxing with normal wax, :)

Glide aside, how would you compare durability as final wax against base burn for BP vs glide wax ie CH?. Used to wax for racing but kids have moved on so durability is king now so I can avoid base damage. BTW I never worried about temp specific skis as could never afford that size of quiver :)

Dominator Graphite Base Renew. Works with any waxes as the base prep. wax. :micdrop:

Agree, I really like dominator and have some of the graphite base renew left, but am running out and is not available here. I can get Swix or Toko on pro deal and Swix deal is best but have not used it much before. I suspect that the BP77 or BP88 are like renew in that the soft component penetrates faster than the harder component, leaving a harder wax for the wax of the day to bind to -just my assumption though. For waxing I typically wax and then hit it multiple times with iron before scraping. When I do this with Renew I really see the change in consistency of Renew to what resembles a cold wax.
 

Primoz

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Glide aside, how would you compare durability as final wax against base burn for BP vs glide wax ie CH?
It's just personal observation without any "scientific proof", so take it as it is. Personally, I have feeling CH lasts longer then BP while skiing. Especially when it comes to base burn, you can use colder one and it works better. And cold CH waxes are harder then BP77 (BP88 is super soft). But ideal is to have base properly saturated with BP wax (either 88 or 77), and then having layer of CH on top. With that skis look pretty much untouched after day of high speed skiing on aggressive snow.
But as I said, it's just personal observation not real proof of anything.
 

trailtrimmer

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I can get Swix or Toko on pro deal and Swix deal is best but have not used it much before.

Try the Swix Moly Fluoro base prep if you get a deal on it. I alternate cycles of BP88 and Moly Fluoro after a grind and it seems to work well.
 
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Rope Tow

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It's just personal observation without any "scientific proof", so take it as it is. Personally, I have feeling CH lasts longer then BP while skiing. Especially when it comes to base burn, you can use colder one and it works better. And cold CH waxes are harder then BP77 (BP88 is super soft). But ideal is to have base properly saturated with BP wax (either 88 or 77), and then having layer of CH on top. With that skis look pretty much untouched after day of high speed skiing on aggressive snow.
But as I said, it's just personal observation not real proof of anything.
Thanks, this is great feedback. Essentially what I suspected, and it sounds like BP77 /88 will be good replacements for Renew as I was typically using a cold hard wax over renew for durability which worked pretty well.
 
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Rope Tow

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Try the Swix Moly Fluoro base prep if you get a deal on it. I alternate cycles of BP88 and Moly Fluoro after a grind and it seems to work well.
Thanks, I will check prices and keep in mind. I have a few bars of shop grade moly hydrocarbon to go thru so I may hold off for a while though -too many things not enough money:)
 

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