TDF 2021: when pigs fly

[Alexzn]

Does anyone have any ideas about what new substance has hit the peloton this year? Pogachar dropping the whole peloton in the mountains casually riding a big ring??? Two.days.in.a.row? Really? 36 year old Cavendish who could not do much last few years suddenly "rediscovering" his form and winning TDF stages left and right from guys 10 years younger than him? Well-known breakaway specialists finding that they push their career-high wattage and suddenly cannot get away from anyone? Experienced GC riders finishing mountain stages in the grupetto??? This is just way too many miracles to my taste. This is reminiscent of the start of the EPO era when LeMond won the Tour one year and next suddenly could not keep up with the peloton...

 

[scott43]

I have given up trying to rationalize these things. It's a dirty sport. Most are. I had read something about a new therapeutic as they call them that would be like twice EPO and undetectable. I can't remember what it was. Who knows.

I couldn't help but smirk as I heard him say we can trust him because he's never failed a drug test and he's tested so much...

 

[Primoz]

As @scott43 wrote, I just don't bother. For me, doping is part of (any top level) sport, and I don't bother judging because of this. Everyone are on it, so from my point of view, it's fair game. But thinking peloton is clean and Pogacar is riding this way, because they figured out how to properly portion bag of spaghetti through the day, is just too naive.
So I follow cycling (or any other sport) as it is, and don't think on this how someone is "cheating". I put cheating in brackets as I really don't consider doping as cheating (I know I know, but don't bother), but as part of top level sport, which has been there forever.

 

[jt10000]

Does anyone has any ideas about what new substance has hit the peloton this year? Pogachar dropping the whole peloton in the mountains casually riding a big ring??? Two.days.in.a.row? Really? 36 year old Cavendish who could not do much last few years suddenly "rediscovering" his form and winning TDF stages left and right from guys 10 years younger than him? Well-known breakaway specialists finding that they push their career-high wattage and suddenly cannot get away from anyone? Experienced GC riders finishing mountain stages in the grupetto??? This is just way too many miracles to my taste. This is reminiscent of the start of the EPO era when LeMond won the Tour one year and next suddenly could not keep up with the peloton...

On Cavendish, he was seriously ill for several years (racing less in that time) and is back on one the best teams in the sport. For sure drugs are an issue in bike racing, but I don't think his performance particularly points to that. Maybe, but no more than dozens of other things.

 

[Tricia]

On Cavendish, he was seriously ill for several years (racing less in that time) and is back on one the best teams in the sport. For sure drugs are an issue in bike racing, but I don't think his performance particularly points to that. Maybe, but no more than dozens of other things.

Your reasoning is similiar to the reasons so many of us defended Armstrong for so long. He survived cancer using all the best natural and medical world had to offer and turned his body into a machine.
And after all, as @scott43 says...

we can trust him because he's never failed a drug test and he's tested so much...

How many times did we hear Armstrong say that?

 

[AmyPJ]

Timely, as I've been watching the TDF with wonder this year as I've never paid a ton of attention to it before. I find the strategy and jockeying for position fascinating and confusing at times.

 

[Alexzn]

Timely, as I've been watching the TDF with wonder this year as I've never paid a ton of attention to it before. I find the strategy and jockeying for position fascinating and confusing at times.

Yes, road racing is actually a very complicated and tactical sport, at least when the playing field is level, which I'm rather doubtful this year. While we are at it, immeven doubtful about the last year, where Pogachar was able to beat Roglic, who was strongest in the mountains and had the strongest team around him (Dumoulin and Kuss to name just a few), pretty much all by himself. As I said, pigs fly...

 

[cantunamunch]

I find the strategy and jockeying for position fascinating and confusing at times.

It takes a while, even as a participant let alone spectator, to pick up on racecraft.

Which brings us to the next point - don't just watch the spectacular performances, watch the next and next best. Like HTF did Wout van Aert manage to only let Pogačar have a minute on him on stage 8, after being in the break all day and on climbs like that, when van Aert is like twice Pogačar's size?

 

[cantunamunch]

It should be noted that youth counts for a lot more than it used to. Which is why I look at Cavendish and Uran with an extremely skeptical eye. I mean HTF is Uran staying with the chasers at a pace that has Quintana being pulled back by his DS 'coz the polka dots ain't worth it?

 

[Erik Timmerman]

It takes a while, even as a participant let alone spectator, to pick up on racecraft.

And that I have read is why there were so many crashes early in the race. The teams are hiring riders based on their power numbers and so many of them have very little actual racing experience. Bike handling and race craft does not exist for them.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I saw a quote from Lemond earlier this year where he said he was optimistic about siping this season because you see young riders winning and a team would not commit the funds and trust to a new rider for a doping program. I wonder what he’s say now.

 

[cantunamunch]

I saw a quote from Lemond earlier this year where he said he was optimistic about siping this season because you see young riders winning and a team would not commit the funds and trust to a new rider for a doping program. I wonder what he’s say now.

One of the dead giveaways in the past have been huge bouncebacks after rest days. I bet he'd say something along the lines of "the drugs aren't quite as dominant as EPO was over acqua&pane but the DS are getting cagier"


Sidebar: One thing civilian riding totally needs to pick up from pro road riding is the completely mature science of warm downs. Yes I know there are core temp measurements that make this easier (tech upgrades!) but warm-down isn't even a thing among civilian riders with no race experience. And it needs to be, especially in the aging population.

 

[Primoz]

@cantunamunch ok I can't say for everyone, and maybe I had decade or two of racing behind me, but warm downs are normally not a thing for recreational rides. Or maybe I'm just looking this from my point of view and in reality things are completely different. Normally I never quit my session at full speed. Even when I feel like doing intervals, I do the in middle of "training" which gives me plenty of time on slow riding/running before I come home (or to car). I would assume most people don't finish their hard rides/runs at doorstep and take last few km easy, which is basically cool-off. But as I wrote, I might be wrong about this.

 

[cantunamunch]

But as I wrote, I might be wrong about this.

You're not wrong - they're not a thing for recreational rides and you have like over 300 times the training experience of weekend warrior desk jockeys.

You have absolutely no idea how many middle aged riders go muy macho/ full gas (on recreational rides!) because it makes them feel accomplished, and then just plop onto the couch.

race craft does not exist for them.

Am I the only one secretly thinking "Carapaz" here?

 

[scott43]

You have absolutely no idea how many middle aged riders go muy macho/ full gas (on recreational rides!) because it makes them feel accomplished, and then just plop onto the couch.

 

[jt10000]

Your reasoning is similiar to the reasons so many of us defended Armstrong for so long. He survived cancer using all the best natural and medical world had to offer and turned his body into a machine.
And after all, as @scott43 says...

How many times did we hear Armstrong say that?

I'm not saying Cavendish is not doping. I'm saying him winning three stages this year is not a sign he's doping any more than many many other cycling performances (including some of his own in the past). He's been at it for years this way. Heck, if you told me Cavendish was doping his whole career I wouldn't push back. But saying these three wins now are particular evidence? No.

 

[Primoz]

@jt10000 there are two things... one is, that Cav is 36 now, and that's honestly way beyond best years for sprinters and at this age it's simply impossible to compete with 5 to 10 years younger guys. But then there's second thing, and that is, that at least this year, there's no sprinter that would be on top of the game, which then makes it a bit easier for old guy to compete. All top guys are either nowhere near proper form (Demare, Pedersen), getting old but in worse way then Cav (Sagan, Greipel), not even there (Ackermann, Bennet) or crashed out (Ewan). This makes Cavendish work a bit easier. But as I wrote before, I honestly don't care if he's doped or not. as I guess answer is pretty obvius. But it's not like rest of peloton is not, so all is good. Even though I never liked him, I'm really happy now to see him winning... no idea why, but I am.

 

[newfydog]

As long as they don't come to Oregon and sample some legal weed WADA won't bother them about their drugs.

 

[AmyPJ]

Are there any good US riders?

I can't imagine having riders with little racing experience. I watch the peloton and freak out at the thought of riding that close to one person, let alone 50 or more!

 

[scott43]

Sepp Kuss man...he's good. Michael Woods from Ontario here.. Not American but close.. McNulty..Powless..