Gear Tele skis for learning

[Wendy]

I’m going to be learning tele next year....I’m in the process of getting my boots sorted out. (Probably Crispi Shiver NTN).

Do I need something shorter for learning tele turns? Or can I just go with my normal ski length? I’m 5’10“, 170lbs. I’ve read varying opinions about length. Some say learn on a shorter ski to reduce the transition time, others say go with the normal ski length.

I know I need a softer ski. I thought that I may have some candidates in my possession. I was thinking of mounting up my ID One FRXP, a 78 waisted twin tip with no metal....it’s fairly soft, no rocker, lots of camber, 176 cm. Performs surprisingly well on hardpack. I also have a pair of DPS alchemist Wailer 99’s, 176cm. I can get threaded inserts so that I can move the NTN bindings, so no need to spend on 2 sets of bindings....one is expensive enough!

 

[Scruffy]

Go with your normal length. Remember, it's free heel skiing; telemark is only one turn you'll be doing, and besides, each telemark turn contains a parallel turn in transition

In the icy east you'll be parallel turning more in very icy conditions than tele turning. Once you move west that may change, but they get icy conditions too. There is nothing wrong with mixing tele and parallel in the same run. You can mix and match at will. Also your quads may need a rest from the lunge of tele so....

You might as well go with your ID One's, you have them and they sound perfect for you.

Thread inserts are a good plan to share the binding with more than one ski. Years ago, when NTN first came out I purchased a 2nd pair of the base mounting plate; that allowed me to move the binding quickly to another pair with no tools, but the inserts work for a lot less money.

One tip I'll give you to accelerate your learning that is not intuitive to most coming to tele from an alpine background is:
Think of the rear ski as the boss, and even when you think you have 50/50 pressure on front and rear ski, you most likely still have too much weight on the front ski.

Enjoy, it's fun way to ski.

ETA: if you look closely at my avatar, you'll notice a G3 ski stuck tail down in the snow besides me with NTN bindings. I had just skinned up a local mountain and we had stopped for a snack break before descending, and my friend snapped that pic.

 

[crgildart]

Good luck and have fun. I can't give any worthwhile gear advice. I do recommend that you try to avoid warm spring days when first starting out. Hitting random patches of GRABBY grey puddle snow without heels clamped down can be quite challenging.

 

[markojp]

I’m going to be learning tele next year....I’m in the process of getting my boots sorted out. (Probably Crispi Shiver NTN).

Do I need something shorter for learning tele turns? Or can I just go with my normal ski length? I’m 5’10“, 170lbs. I’ve read varying opinions about length. Some say learn on a shorter ski to reduce the transition time, others say go with the normal ski length.

I know I need a softer ski. I thought that I may have some candidates in my possession. I was thinking of mounting up my ID One FRXP, a 78 waisted twin tip with no metal....it’s fairly soft, no rocker, lots of camber, 176 cm. Performs surprisingly well on hardpack. I also have a pair of DPS alchemist Wailer 99’s, 176cm. I can get threaded inserts so that I can move the NTN bindings, so no need to spend on 2 sets of bindings....one is expensive enough!

Ski the same length you do alpine. Don't worry too much about too stiff, but do choose a ski that bends 'round'. Honestly, you can most likely remount one of your older loved alpine skis and call it good.

 

[Wendy]

Go with your normal length. Remember, it's free heel skiing; telemark is only one turn you'll be doing, and besides, each telemark turn contains a parallel turn in transition

In the icy east you'll be parallel turning more in very icy conditions than tele turning. Once you move west that may change, but they get icy conditions too. There is nothing wrong with mixing tele and parallel in the same run. You can mix and match at will. Also your quads may need a rest from the lunge of tele so....

You might as well go with your ID One's, you have them and they sound perfect for you.

Thread inserts are a good plan to share the binding with more than one ski. Years ago, when NTN first came out I purchased a 2nd pair of the base mounting plate; that allowed me to move the binding quickly to another pair with no tools, but the inserts work for a lot less money.

One tip I'll give you to accelerate your learning that is not intuitive to most coming to tele from an alpine background is:
Think of the rear ski as the boss, and even when you think you have 50/50 pressure on front and rear ski, you most likely still have too much weight on the front ski.

Enjoy, it's fun way to ski.

ETA: if you look closely at my avatar, you'll notice a G3 ski stuck tail down in the snow besides me with NTN bindings. I had just skinned up a local mountain and we had stopped for a snack break before descending, and my friend snapped that pic.

Yes, that rear ski! I remember when I first learned to tele years ago (never got off green slopes)....weighting that rear ski was a challenge at first. I do tele lunges as an exercise at home, and I concentrate on that rear foot. (I put furniture sliders beneath my feet so I can slide from leading foot to leading foot as if on skis, lol).

My next door neighbor (tele skier) calls her rear ski her “rudder.” Interesting way to think about it.

 

[Wendy]

Good luck and have fun. I can't give any worthwhile gear advice. I do recommend that you try to avoid warm spring days when first starting out. Hitting random patches of GRABBY grey puddle snow without heels clamped down can be quite challenging.

I did first learn to tele many years ago, and it was on those warm spring days that I did it. I found it easier simply because the snow was so edgeable. I don’t remember if it was so warm as to have grabby snow, though.

 

[markojp]

That's why we have wax.

 

[crgildart]

That's why we have wax.

And structure.. That would have helped my herky jerky day a lot. For the record I didn't face plant a single time but thought I was going to..

 

[Wendy]

I was going to remount my ID One twintips (78 waist) as a tele learning ski, but changed my mind this AM when I went to remove the Pivot bindings on them. They are a FUN ski - I don’t use them as much as I should, but I was afraid that I wouldn’t experience the poppy fun factor learning tele with them as I do skiing alpine on them.

So I decided to spend more $. Or……?
I purchased a pair of 166cm Black Pearl 82’s on discount. I had skied the Black Pearl 88’s in that same length (which normally would feel too short for me) as an alpine ski at Winter Park last year, and really enjoyed them. Didn’t feel short, really, which was surprising. Anyway, I figured the 82 in that same length would be perfect for learning tele. My experience with learning tele turns is that shorter is easier, despite the advice above. I was learning on a pair of Black Diamond womens skis in a 175 and it seemed to take forever to complete the turn compared to shorter skis. If I hadn’t skied the 166 length of the Black Pearls in alpine I wouldn’t have bought them. And I’m going to have inserts put into a pair of DPS Nina99 Alchemist skis I have here as a wider alternative.

 

[Paul Lutes]

A friend of mine had a similar issue with "longer" skis, but when they committed to tightening up their stance i.e. stopped poodling, they were rewarded with quicker, easier turns. The BD skis might also be part of the problem

 

[markojp]

A friend of mine had a similar issue with "longer" skis, but when they committed to tightening up their stance i.e. stopped poodling, they were rewarded with quicker, easier turns. The BD skis might also be part of the problem

Much wisdom on display here.

 

[Wendy]

A friend of mine had a similar issue with "longer" skis, but when they committed to tightening up their stance i.e. stopped poodling, they were rewarded with quicker, easier turns. The BD skis might also be part of the problem

I don’t know what “poodling” is, so I need an explanation.

I don’t want to overthink my ski choice. My reasoning also included that I had demoed the 166cm in the BP88 and found it stable and very fun. I COULD get a 173cm instead from Ski Essentials if it was really necessary. Comments?

 

[markojp]

When there's enough space between your front and rear foot that a standard poodle could run between your legs.

Another canine teley phrase... 'doggie leg'... the rear foot being reluctantly dragged along for the ride relatively unweighted and doing pretty much nothing.

Keep your rear foot under your butt and pressuring your rear ski.... keep it tight (the stance) and you'll be alright. Go low, and you will blow*... as in blow up your quads while commensurately throwing away your ability to manage pressure.

(* the common phrase is 'Stay low and you will flow'... I beg to differ. Emphatically.)

 

[Paul Lutes]

What Mark sez, except ideally you don't even want a toy poodle gap. It's fine/normal in the early part of the learning curve but a lot of free heelers seems to have gotten stuck in that position and get frustrated when the can't figure out why they can't handle speed and quick transitions.

Without seeing you ski and knowing you're physical characteristics, we can only go by the info you've provided on skis i.e. you liked the 166 BP 88s, and have already bought the 82 in 166 cm, so I wouldn't bother with the 173s just yet. You may not find the 173s T. discount later, but there's plenty of equivalent skis out there - some of them are bound to be on sale if you decide you want to move up. In fact, I just might have a freebie pair of skis in the 174-175 range if you're interested (I could hold them for next season if you'd like - PM me).

 

[Scruffy]

I was going to weight in earlier on the poodle, but while I was thinking about the length issue Mark beat me to it, and then I got side tracked with other work. It's a 7 cm ( less than 3 inches ) and 2 meter radius ( 14 vs 16 ) difference between the 166 and 173. You are a tall woman; if I were you I'd had picked the 173 and the longer radius ski, BUT, I'm not you, and I have never skied a BP let alone the 166, so go with your gut. You said you have a DPS in 176, so you're covered if the 166 BPs seem short. And heck, you can always take the tele bindings off and mount alpine bindings on them if they seem short to you for tele. So go for the 166.

 

[Wendy]

Thanks, guys. I’ll stick with the 166. An instructor friend of mine (who instructs in tele) told me to stick with the 166. Additionally, I’ll be learning at a fairly busy hill that can get crowded; it’s nice to be able to make shorter radius turns in that environment. The DPS are more versatile than they appear so may get some runs on them even here in the East.

 

[markojp]

FWIW, I ski the same skis innthe same length I'd choose for alpine. The new NTN boots/bindings offer a really powerful interface.

 

[Wendy]

FWIW, I ski the same skis innthe same length I'd choose for alpine. The new NTN boots/bindings offer a really powerful interface.

Thanks. I’m going to stick with the 166’s for this upcoming season. If I grow out of them, I’ll look at a longer ski….and by then, I might have a better idea of what I want. I am also having inserts put in a pair of DPS Nina99’s in my normal length of 176, so I will have that longer, wider option this upcoming season.

 

[cantunamunch]

Thanks. I’m going to stick with the 166’s for this upcoming season. If I grow out of them, I’ll look at a longer ski….and by then, I might have a better idea of what I want. I am also having inserts put in a pair of DPS Nina99’s in my normal length of 176, so I will have that longer, wider option this upcoming season.

Out of curiosity, did you see the Frey Bros.' preorder?

<- totally intrigued by the waxless base options.

 

[Wendy]

Out of curiosity, did you see the Frey Bros.' preorder?

<- totally intrigued by the waxless base options.

I did! You’re talking about the Summitcone Vagabond, right? Actually I kind of thought of you when I saw those; looked like something you’d be interested in. Seems like a very cool ski.