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The Almighty Michelin CrossClimate 2 is starting to disappoint me after 20,000 miles.

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snwbrdr

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Making a u-turn through this crud got 3 wheels losing traction at once. Not exactly light fluffy snow to get through.... eventually it made its way through. with some backing up on the flattened snow I made, and use momentum to get back on the snow surface the CC2's excel at.
 
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snwbrdr

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Well the whole point of this class of all weather tires is for the Bay area weekend warrior who is driving 375 miles on dry/wet pavement with maybe 25 miles on snow during maybe 4 lucky weekends when it actually snows. So in total maybe 100miles out of 10000 a year on snow or 1percent.

For the weekend warrior,if it's blizzard conditions where the cc2 isn't good enough; you stay home since you won't make it up anyway. Because 95percent of the OTHER vehicles on the road have worse tires than the cc2. So they are all spun out and in ditches, and caltrans is holding 50 and 80 to clean up the mess or you're in a snake following the plow anyway and not getting to your lodging till 4am.

Plus, you also have your chains that you're supposed to carry anyway for those extreme circumstance.

it is a little like having 1 ski quiver with only a powder skis vs allmtn skis. if a true powder day is so rare, it makes more sense to optimize more for the most frequent scenario, but still prepare for the rare one.
I'm in SoCal, so 50 and 80 are non-issues for me.

All-weather really became popular for people in Montreal, who have the Quebec snow tire law but have no space in their apartments to store an extra set of tires, so they will actually run their winters year-round.

I have used Nokian All-weathers on a lowered FWD car, and a AWD Cute-ute, with no issues driving through blizzards back when I lived on the East Coast.

Yes, I have cables for my AWD Toyota.

And had chains for my AWD Cute-ute
Peerless Auto-trac snow chain practise fitting by thisistan, on Flickr
(and these were on dedicated winter tires I had from the east coast, before going to Nokian All-weathers)

And had chains for my lowered FWD car to get up the steepest hills that lead to my house, that even a set of Nokian Hakka RSI's can't overcome on a FWD car due to gravity, and also due to gravity, the township plows usually crashing in my neighborhood.
4664DD07-3E05-4AAE-A22F-170B6F47EC66_zpsbogbjrnx by thisistan, on Flickr
Thule K-Summit shown... have played with Spikes Spider also, but hated the lug bolt attachment.
 

Rudi Riet

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I tested the CC2s in both plowed and (days old) fresh snow with my 6MT Crosstrek in Vermont yesterday - as well as on black ice on I-91 yesterday evening.

In plowed snow mixed with ice they're very capable, stable, easily controlled. This road heading the back way to Stratton was a kick in the pants.

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In the fresh snow they were just fine. No, they're not a full winter tire but they do far better than the stock Yokohama Geolandar G91Fs and the Michelin Defenders I used for the past few years - and the Defenders are no slouch in snow from my experience.

In the black ice the CC2s were very easily controlled.

There is a 3-4 mpg penalty with the CC2s compared to the G91Fs, which is to be expected.

I do plan on swapping the Yokohamas back onto the Subaru come April, then putting the CC2s back into rotation in November.
 

In2h2o

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I tested the CC2s in Vermont yesterday -

In the fresh snow they were just fine. No, they're not a full winter tire but they do far better than the stock Yokohama Geolandar G91Fs and the Michelin Defenders I used for the past few years - and the Defenders are no slouch in snow from my experience.
Glad to hear they are better than the Yokos and the Defenders.....
So here we are end of December and no CC2s to be found in my tire size - still back order Tire Rack/ Americas Tire/ and Michelin. I guess better to have the new Defender M+S than my old worn out Yokos.
However, clearly I'm missing something b/c even a few weeks ago I had a random chair ride conversation with someone who was bragging about their CC2s in the last storm....... just what I wanted to hear lol!
 
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tball

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First test of my new CC2's in the snow today, and I'm super happy. All the side streets are packed with snow after the bitter cold storm, and then it warmed up today. It was about 40 degrees, so a layer of wet was on top of the packed snow. Super slick. I had to be careful not to slip while walking across the street.

I've got the CC2's on my new-to-me RWD G35 6MT. In spite of the RWD, the car did amazingly well. I couldn't get it stuck, even trying stupid tricks that got the same car stuck in the snow a couple of weeks ago with high-performance all-season tires (BFG G-Force Comp-2 A/S), like uphill untracked parking spots and starting from a dead stop on a slick steep grade.

I wanted to compare it with my old Auto RWD G35 with Premier A/S mounted, but I couldn't get it out of its parking spot. A little uphill grade with fresh snow, and it wasn't going anywhere.

My newer car has an LSD, which makes a huge traction difference, and It's super fun to drive in the snow. I wish I got a car with LSD sooner. Two rooster tails shooting out the back! The CC2's made a huge difference over the HP A/S tires, so it's not just the LSD.

With the old G35 stuck, I took my wife's GX with LTX tires with about 2/3rds tread out for a comparison. It was super scary trying to stop and turn on the super slick roads. No problem going, thanks to the drivetrain, but I parked it fairly quickly as I was afraid I was going to hit something.

I got back in my G with the CC2's and could have had a blast driving it around in the snow all day. RWD with the right winter setup is good fun. I'd rather drive the RWD G with LSD and CC2's into a Colorado mountain storm than the GX with LTX's. No kidding, it's that good. Of course, I'll still be in a Toyota 4x4 with studded Hakka's for the worst conditions!

This was going to be a short post, as I've got Christmas presents to wrap, but I feel like I just got a fantastic present to brag about, a snow-capable six-speed RWD sports sedan to drive skiing (and drifting over Loveland and Berthoud Passes). :ogbiggrin:
 
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PinnacleJim

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I've got the CC2's on my new-to-me RWD G35 6MT. In spite of the RWD, the car did amazingly well. I couldn't get it stuck, even trying stupid tricks that got the same car stuck in the snow a couple of weeks ago with high-performance all-season tires (BFG G-Force Comp-2 A/S), like uphill untracked parking spots and starting from a dead stop on a slick steep grade.
Interesting to hear. I had those BFGs on my previous car (BMW X1) based on decent reviews then for their snow performance, at least for a UHP All season tire. I was happy with the BFGs though tread life was not the best. New car will be looking for tires at some point and CC2s are on the short list.

How would you compare the warm weather performance of the CC2s and the BFG Comp-2 A/S? Don't want to give up too much on that end. I do enjoy having a performance oriented tire on in the warm weather.
 

tball

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How would you compare the warm weather performance of the CC2s and the BFG Comp-2 A/S? Don't want to give up too much on that end. I do enjoy having a performance oriented tire on in the warm weather.
Unfortunately, the dry handling of the CC2s is disappointing compared to the BFG Comp-2 A/S. They changed the car from handling like a sports car to a luxury sedan (think 350z to Lexus ES!). The CC2s much softer sidewalls and soft compound with deep tread blocks make them feel comparatively squishy.

It took me a while to get used to the slow turn-in, but once they finally get over on edge, they seem to have pretty good grip. Such different handling, though. No way I'll run them in the summer on that car instead of high-performance all-season tires, but I could see bolting them on for a more compliant ride on a long summer road trip. Sure would be easier to flip a switch from Sport to Luxury on an adaptive suspension. ogsmile

A couple of caveats: my summer wheels and tires are staggered with 225/50-18 front and 245/45-18 rear, while my winter setup is square with 225/50-18, but I don't think that little difference should impact the handling much.

I think a big factor could be the new vs. worn tires. CC2s are brand new, and the BFG Comp-2 A/Ss are 80% worn. Worn tires will handle sharper than new. Tyre Reviews, in comparing new vs. worn CC2s, said the difference was as great as changing to a different category of tire. I'm comparing two different categories of tires and going from new to worn in both, so maybe that's like three categories of difference in handling? The change felt that dramatic.

Here's the point in the video where he mentions worn tires feeling like a different category of tire in dry handling:

 
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PinnacleJim

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Thanks tball. About what I suspected. My current car is a BMW 430i Gran Coupe with 225/45-18 tires. Not a sports car but definitely a sport sedan. Giving up that handling for some more snow traction is probably not a tradeoff I am willing to take. I made out fine with the BFGs on my X1, so I may go with a UHP all season like the Conti DWS06+ when the time comes. Unless someone comes up with a performance all season with the 3 peak traction rating in the future.
 

James

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I may go with a UHP all season like the Conti DWS06+ when the time comes.
That’s a nice tire. Feels so much better than the Vredestein Quatrac Pro or Michelin CC2, which are both rated better in snow. Don’t know if the DWS06+ is crisp enough feeling for a sport vehicle, I have 235/55/17 on an suv- Ford Escape. Every time I drive it I notice the feel of the tires. Makes you smile.
Haven’t had them in much snow.
 

doc

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I'm running the DWS06+s on three "sports sedans." Its a nice compromise tire, with decent winter handling (other than in deeper snow) but definitely gives up some "sports" performance at the margins as the sidewalls are a bit soft. There a documented complaints of sidewall bubbling, but so far I have not experienced that in more than 10 sets of four.
 

Ogg

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I'm running the DWS06+s on three "sports sedans." Its a nice compromise tire, with decent winter handling (other than in deeper snow) but definitely gives up some "sports" performance at the margins as the sidewalls are a bit soft. There a documented complaints of sidewall bubbling, but so far I have not experienced that in more than 10 sets of four.
It's a shame they still haven't resolved this problem. We had this issue on the DWS4s(?) we ran on my wife's Legacy GT a decade ago. Hopefully it's at least less common now.
 

tball

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Thanks tball. About what I suspected. My current car is a BMW 430i Gran Coupe with 225/45-18 tires. Not a sports car but definitely a sport sedan. Giving up that handling for some more snow traction is probably not a tradeoff I am willing to take. I made out fine with the BFGs on my X1, so I may go with a UHP all season like the Conti DWS06+ when the time comes. Unless someone comes up with a performance all season with the 3 peak traction rating in the future.
I stumbled upon a simple solution for improving the sharpness and handling of the CC2 on a sporty car. Drive a Sequoia for a week, then get back in the sporty car, and the CC2's handle awesome! :ogbiggrin:
 

bitflogger

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Our oldest set of CrossClimate2 now past 20,000 miles impress me even more based on experience with competing tires. They don't have the drop off in wet, snow and icy weather others have had and on top of that have remained quiet.

By coincidence our Outback with them is getting a wheel bearing replaced and suspension work and that shop a big Nokian fan confessed the CC2 age better in their process of troubleshooting the noise.

FWIW, a different set of Michelin we have on our van advertised full depth sipes but those are near end of life and you can see it is only some of the sipes that are full depth. The last Conti we replaced advertised full depth but as they got towards end of life they also showed it was not all the sipes full depth.

I could be convinced of fantastic tires but not perfect tires. In that context plus reaching 20,000 miles where many lose performance I remain really impressed by the CC2.
 

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