The Atomic Professional Series

[cantunamunch]

Correct, we use a softer foam than the traditional stuff that used to rupture liners. We spent a lot of time on finding the right mixture in order to arrive at something comfortable that was still supportive and durable (long-lasting).

Can you amplify the time scale of 'Comfortable' here - is that speaking to user perceptions at initial fit? During the first ten days? Or is that more on a season - long term scale?

 

[Philpug]

How does/will the Mimic Professional liner hold up when used with heated boot bags?

These will not be heat sensitive, so I imagine fine.

 

[onenerdykid]

Can you amplify the time scale of 'Comfortable' here - is that speaking to user perceptions at initial fit? During the first ten days? Or is that more on a season - long term scale?

Without getting lost in defining what "comfortable" means to different skiers from different backgrounds, the simplest answer is that it will be pain-free and you'll enjoy skiing in it all day from day 1 (provided you are in the correct boot to begin with, have a proper footbed, etc.). There's no break-in period. There's no need to suffer for 3 weeks in order to have it be comfortable or pain-free. That's not hype or marketing BS. It's the reality of everyone who has one, whether they race World Cups or ski casually. On the long term side, we've got people in the same liner for two seasons now with no complaints. Getting any longer-term data at this point is on the "wait and see" side of the chart.

 

[onenerdykid]

These will not be heat sensitive, so I imagine fine.

No issue.

 

[ScottB]

I want to ask about the heat molding, ie.. Memory fit process, with the pro series. Just to recap to see if I have it correct, if you need room in the boot for a local spot, go the punch rout, or other "local" style modification. If you need more room over a large area, or just need more volume in the boot, do the shell and liner "Memory fit heat process".

If going for the memory fit heat molding of shell and liner what are the order of steps?? When do you add the foam? before memory fit or after? And when do you change tongues to see what works best? I think you offer a lot of knobs to adjust which is impressive and will really allow a great fit, but the order you do them in might be important.

I have had great results with two new atomic boots recently. I needed a punch on my new Club Sport for the metatarsal bone at the ankle end, and then just heat molded the liner. Boot feels great now. The fit is incredible. On my Hawx Ultra XTD 130 I did two memory fit processes. The original one to get more toe width and a second one recently for an upgrade to the new mimic liner. Used toe caps on the second one and my toes are really happy now. The mimic liner transformed the boot into something I look forward to using in the resort now. It is so comfortable and really firmed up the fit of the boot compared to the original light weight touring liner. Adding the foaming process to the mimic liner I expect to be a great move. Atomic is really advancing the state of the art when it comes to boot fitting and performance. Kudo's.

 

[Quandary]

I'll give it a try if I can find it.....

 

[James]

I'm really not sure how the UK pricing will go, I think the UK team is still trying to figure it out given what is happening over there.

Here is what exists so far:
Hawx Ultra 130 Professional- 859€, 849$ USD
Hawx Ultra 115 Professional W - 799€, 749$ USD
Redster CS 130 Professional - 859€, 849$ USD
Mimic Professional liners - 300€ & $USD
Professional Dual Straps - 80€ & $USD

I take it the prices for the boots include the liner and the Dual Straps?

This is a totally awesome idea and I wish it were possible. It's an absolute nightmare for retailers to be able to stock cuffs and shells in all of the sizes and required hardnesses, and all of the other accessories. From a business perspective, it's just too difficult to manage currently. I like how you're thinking though.

Well on the plus side you could use parts over multiple years. Plus, it’s easier to grind the clog without the cuff. Now, maybe we could develop a machine where you set the twist of the cuff to match the skier, and it drills the pivot point. Same with forward lean.
Couple this with some sort of molding process for the foot in clog.
Then assemble, pop the liner in and foam that. Yeah it’s a lot of work, but given many high end boot users require 4-6 hrs fitting, not that bad.

I can think of at least half a dozen shops that could handle this process and that’s just in VT.

 

[onenerdykid]

I want to ask about the heat molding, ie.. Memory fit process, with the pro series. Just to recap to see if I have it correct, if you need room in the boot for a local spot, go the punch rout, or other "local" style modification. If you need more room over a large area, or just need more volume in the boot, do the shell and liner "Memory fit heat process".

If going for the memory fit heat molding of shell and liner what are the order of steps?? When do you add the foam? before memory fit or after? And when do you change tongues to see what works best? I think you offer a lot of knobs to adjust which is impressive and will really allow a great fit, but the order you do them in might be important.

I have had great results with two new atomic boots recently. I needed a punch on my new Club Sport for the metatarsal bone at the ankle end, and then just heat molded the liner. Boot feels great now. The fit is incredible. On my Hawx Ultra XTD 130 I did two memory fit processes. The original one to get more toe width and a second one recently for an upgrade to the new mimic liner. Used toe caps on the second one and my toes are really happy now. The mimic liner transformed the boot into something I look forward to using in the resort now. It is so comfortable and really firmed up the fit of the boot compared to the original light weight touring liner. Adding the foaming process to the mimic liner I expect to be a great move. Atomic is really advancing the state of the art when it comes to boot fitting and performance. Kudo's.

Glad to hear things are working for you, Scott! It's helpful to start from the general rules that things like Memory Fit are focused on expansion (making more space) and things likes Mimic Professional are focused on reduction (getting rid of space). So blending the two together is a little contrary. Additionally, Memory Fit is about molding a shell around a finished liner, whereas Mimic Professional is about molding a liner to a finished shell. Therefore, and like every other custom liner, you want to have the shell work done first before you heat & foam a Mimic Professional liner. That will be the ideal way to get it fitted. It's a bit more a process, but it will be a higher performing product in the end.

 

[onenerdykid]

I take it the prices for the boots include the liner and the Dual Straps?


Well on the plus side you could use parts over multiple years. Plus, it’s easier to grind the clog without the cuff. Now, maybe we could develop a machine where you set the twist of the cuff to match the skier, and it drills the pivot point. Same with forward lean.
Couple this with some sort of molding process for the foot in clog.
Then assemble, pop the liner in and foam that. Yeah it’s a lot of work, but given many high end boot users require 4-6 hrs fitting, not that bad.

I can think of at least half a dozen shops that could handle this process and that’s just in VT.

Complete men's boot = boot + Mimic Professional liner + Professional Dual Strap
Complete women's boot = boot + Mimic Professional liner + regular 40mm velcro strap (no space on a low cuff for a 55mm Dual Strap unfortunately)

Re: the custom built boot - I hope someday we'll get there, but I think it's a ways out

 

[Springer]

How far into the forefoot does the foam go? This is a problem area for me with a size 13 street shoe and a 100mm wide foot. Even sized down to a 28.5 boot the Ultra is a 102 mm last. Can the foam take up 2-3mm of space effectively in that area?

 

[onenerdykid]

How far into the forefoot does the foam go? This is a problem area for me with a size 13 street shoe and a 100mm wide foot. Even sized down to a 28.5 boot the Ultra is a 102 mm last. Can the foam take up 2-3mm of space effectively in that area?

Bladder ends right were my finger is, so it captures the 5th met.

While this post highlights the new Hawx Ultra, if your foot is that skinny you should perhaps look into the Redster Club Sport 130 Professional. Same liner, just made for the CS boot. You'll have the same quality of fit & comfort that I've been talking about but in the CS chassis.

 

[Slim]

@onenerdykid ,

Awesome on the swappable tongues.

One thing I wasn’t sure on:

Is the ‘high volume’ tongue, a thicker (higher volume) tongue, or a thinner tongue (ie.meant for a higher volume FOOT)?
And vice versa for the LV.

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid ,

Awesome on the swappable tongues.

One thing I wasn’t sure on:

Is the ‘high volume’ tongue, a thicker (higher volume) tongue, or a thinner tongue (ie.meant for a higher volume FOOT)?
And vice versa for the LV.

I know what you mean

The volume naming refers to the resulting fit, as with how most boots refer to it (Mach 1 LV-MV-HV or Lange RX LV-MV, etc)

 

[Slim]

I know what you mean

The volume naming refers to the resulting fit, as with how most boots refer to it (Mach 1 LV-MV-HV or Lange RX LV-MV, etc)

It works either way. I thought that’s what it sounded like in the podcast. Just wanted to be sure.
Intuition is the other way around. As that’s how they refer to the liners...

 

[ScottB]

It's helpful to start from the general rules that things like Memory Fit are focused on expansion (making more space) and things likes Mimic Professional are focused on reduction (getting rid of space). So blending the two together is a little contrary. Additionally, Memory Fit is about molding a shell around a finished liner, whereas Mimic Professional is about molding a liner to a finished shell. Therefore, and like every other custom liner, you want to have the shell work done first before you heat & foam a Mimic Professional liner. That will be the ideal way to get it fitted.

I am probably over analyzing this new professional series, but I think my foot is one that would require a heat molding of the shell and would benefit from the mimic pro liner. I also think @Springer is in the same boat as me. If I interpret your reply above, it would be preferred to not heat mold the shell with the pro series, but use localized punching and stretching approaches.

I am thinking about future purchases, but on the Hawx Ultra XTD boot I am in, the toe box was long enough but too narrow. The fore foot area was a little wide, the ankle and heel about right. I heat molded the shell and the liner together to get more width in the toe box, rest of boot was good with no punches or other work required. It required toe caps and a second heat mold (upgraded to mimic liner on second heat mold) to get enough toe width. The heel and ankle are still good (shell didn't change significantly in those areas). I could use a little snugging up in the mid foot area, (although perfectly skiable as is and I am happy) which is where the foam of the pro liner would snugg the fit.

On my XTD, maybe just the toe box could have been "stretched" by a boot fitter?? (I am asking?) Then heat the pro liner, put it in the "cold shell" and inject foam to fill as necessary. Is that correct?

So if you do want/need to heat the shell to expand it in certain areas, should that be done without heating the pro liner liner first, then after the shell is completely cooled, do the liner heating and foaming. Honestly, I am deep diving this because from experience I don't trust my local shop to think through all the steps and ramifications. As far as I know, they don't really do punching and stretching, but they do the memory fit process and the Fischer vacuum process on new boots. I could be wrong about the punching and stretching, since I have not needed it on my XTD's. Another shop fit my Club Sports which did need a punch only, no heat molding the shell, just the liner.

 

[onenerdykid]

I am probably over analyzing this new professional series, but I think my foot is one that would require a heat molding of the shell and would benefit from the mimic pro liner. I also think @Springer is in the same boat as me. If I interpret your reply above, it would be preferred to not heat mold the shell with the pro series, but use localized punching and stretching approaches.

I am thinking about future purchases, but on the Hawx Ultra XTD boot I am in, the toe box was long enough but too narrow. The fore foot area was a little wide, the ankle and heel about right. I heat molded the shell and the liner together to get more width in the toe box, rest of boot was good with no punches or other work required. It required toe caps and a second heat mold (upgraded to mimic liner on second heat mold) to get enough toe width. The heel and ankle are still good (shell didn't change significantly in those areas). I could use a little snugging up in the mid foot area, (although perfectly skiable as is and I am happy) which is where the foam of the pro liner would snugg the fit.

On my XTD, maybe just the toe box could have been "stretched" by a boot fitter?? (I am asking?) Then heat the pro liner, put it in the "cold shell" and inject foam to fill as necessary. Is that correct?

So if you do want/need to heat the shell to expand it in certain areas, should that be done without heating the pro liner liner first, then after the shell is completely cooled, do the liner heating and foaming. Honestly, I am deep diving this because from experience I don't trust my local shop to think through all the steps and ramifications. As far as I know, they don't really do punching and stretching, but they do the memory fit process and the Fischer vacuum process on new boots. I could be wrong about the punching and stretching, since I have not needed it on my XTD's. Another shop fit my Club Sports which did need a punch only, no heat molding the shell, just the liner.

In order to Memory Fit a boot, you will need a finished liner to push the shell out in the needed areas. But in the Professional Series, the liner is basically empty and the liner is unable to do that in its current state, so Memory Fitting the boot simply won't work. A shop would need to stretch the toe box for length, width, any ankle punches and then foam the liner to a "cold shell" as you put it. This is how the shop that fit your Club Sport boots operated- work on the shell, then fit the liner to the shell.

If the shop only works with Memory Fit, then the Professional Series most likely won't be for them.

 

[James]

I am probably over analyzing this new professional series, but I think my foot is one that would require a heat molding of the shell and would benefit from the mimic pro liner. I also think @Springer is in the same boat as me. If I interpret your reply above, it would be preferred to not heat mold the shell with the pro series, but use localized punching and stretching approaches.

I am thinking about future purchases, but on the Hawx Ultra XTD boot I am in, the toe box was long enough but too narrow. The fore foot area was a little wide, the ankle and heel about right. I heat molded the shell and the liner together to get more width in the toe box, rest of boot was good with no punches or other work required. It required toe caps and a second heat mold (upgraded to mimic liner on second heat mold) to get enough toe width. The heel and ankle are still good (shell didn't change significantly in those areas). I could use a little snugging up in the mid foot area, (although perfectly skiable as is and I am happy) which is where the foam of the pro liner would snugg the fit.

On my XTD, maybe just the toe box could have been "stretched" by a boot fitter?? (I am asking?) Then heat the pro liner, put it in the "cold shell" and inject foam to fill as necessary. Is that correct?

So if you do want/need to heat the shell to expand it in certain areas, should that be done without heating the pro liner liner first, then after the shell is completely cooled, do the liner heating and foaming. Honestly, I am deep diving this because from experience I don't trust my local shop to think through all the steps and ramifications. As far as I know, they don't really do punching and stretching, but they do the memory fit process and the Fischer vacuum process on new boots. I could be wrong about the punching and stretching, since I have not needed it on my XTD's. Another shop fit my Club Sports which did need a punch only, no heat molding the shell, just the liner.

Sounds like you need to go back to Boot Pro in Ludlow. Let me know if you’re going, I’m often around.

 

[Jb.schulte]

In order to Memory Fit a boot, you will need a finished liner to push the shell out in the needed areas. But in the Professional Series, the liner is basically empty and the liner is unable to do that in its current state, so Memory Fitting the boot simply won't work. A shop would need to stretch the toe box for length, width, any ankle punches and then foam the liner to a "cold shell" as you put it. This is how the shop that fit your Club Sport boots operated- work on the shell, then fit the liner to the shell.

If the shop only works with Memory Fit, then the Professional Series most likely won't be for them.

My understanding is theat the Memory fit process can only add volume. As such, if the only area that needs to get larger is the toe box, couldn't the shop use the Professional liner to do a Memory fit and then go back and finish off the liner? Alternatively, would it make sense to have the shop use a stock liner just to do the Memory fit process and then use the Professional liner to do the Mimic and foam process?

 

[ScottB]

ONK,

That clears it up and makes total sense now, Thanks.

I have only recently learned about all the shell "modifications" that can be done to a ski boot to make it fit well. Its a new thing to me. I suspect a lot of skiers aren't aware of how easily Atomic boots in particular, can be customized to achieve a comfortable performance fit. A friend I ski with was complaining about his toe hitting the shell on one foot, when I said why don't you get that boot stretched, his reply was "they can do that". That was me a few years ago, as well.

The Boot Pro in Ludlow Vt. would be a great shop to work with for a professional series Atomic boot.

James, will do next time I am "in town".

 

[migdriver]

Two questions: how does a heating system like Hotronics get incorporated into the Mimic Pro liner? Same process as traditionally done with cutting small opening in liner; or is it best to avoid Hotronic heaters and only use/ foam with thin heated ( Lenz) socks.
Also: assume foaming is done with custom footbeds in place? Thx