The Atomic Professional Series

[onenerdykid]

My understanding is theat the Memory fit process can only add volume. As such, if the only area that needs to get larger is the toe box, couldn't the shop use the Professional liner to do a Memory fit and then go back and finish off the liner? Alternatively, would it make sense to have the shop use a stock liner just to do the Memory fit process and then use the Professional liner to do the Mimic and foam process?

If space is only needed in a certain area (like a toe box), it's generally best to treat the one local area. So, I would just do a toe punch and then fit the liner afterward.

A shop could use a stock liner to Memory Fit the shell and then do the foaming, but they would need to find a stock liner that isn't being used / doesn't belong to another boot. That would work but it might be a little roomy though.

 

[onenerdykid]

Two questions: how does a heating system like Hotronics get incorporated into the Mimic Pro liner? Same process as traditionally done with cutting small opening in liner; or is it best to avoid Hotronic heaters and only use/ foam with thin heated ( Lenz) socks.
Also: assume foaming is done with custom footbeds in place? Thx

There wouldn't be a different procedure for adding heaters but I would generally steer someone to heated socks anyway (just a personal preference on my part).

Yes- footbeds are always key!

 

[ScottB]

How far into the forefoot does the foam go? This is a problem area for me with a size 13 street shoe and a 100mm wide foot. Even sized down to a 28.5 boot the Ultra is a 102 mm last. Can the foam take up 2-3mm of space effectively in that area?

@Springer, I am responding because I have a similar foot, maybe a little narrower, as you and recently bought two new ski boots. Not because I am an expert on the subject like ONK is.

From other sources, I have learned that you want to typically be within 1-3mm of the last width, or slightly less. This would be a normal "good" fit. So the professional foam liner should easily take up 3mm of space. ONK can confirm, but I think the answer is yes. More importantly, the 102mm last width is a single point to point measurement and only to be used as a guide. Its about the entire last shape and 3D fit of the foot pocket in the boot. Even if loose at the one point, if tight everywhere else you maybe good. You can make a footbed thinner or thicker to move you up or down in the boot and the last width measurement will change. My size 13 foot measures somewhere between 95-100 mm wide (depends on how the measurement is taken) and I am in a 29, 102mm last Atomic 130 Club Sport boot which is the snuggest and best fit I have ever had (skied Lange boots all my life). I also tried a 28, 96 mm last Atomic Redster World Cup boot and the width was OK as well, but too short. The liner in the WC boot was thinner, and the boot was stiffer, which is why I choose to go with the Club Sport. If I chose a 29 size WC (98mm last) I don't think it would have been as comfortable a fit and too stiff for off piste skiing. (it is a race boot) So my point is I am in a 6mm wider last, but with a much thicker and more comfortable liner, and the fit is very snug everywhere except the toes, where the boot is just right, roomy but not too loose. Starting the buying process, I assumed the 102mm last would be too wide, but I was dead wrong about that. Just for a final comparison, my old boot is a RS140 Lange, which in size 26 has a 97mm last compared to the Club Sport 96 mm last in a 26. The Club Sport is a much snugger fit even though only 1mm last size difference. It required a punch at the ankle end of my 5th meta, where as the Lange did not. It is a noticeably narrower boot than the Lange and is made so it can be "modified" as needed for comfort with high precision. I will ski it for the first time on Wednesday, but I can tell already it will be a higher performance boot for me.

 

[Choucas]

Currently in a 2nd year (orange with black cuff, canted with cantology inserts) Tecnica Mach 1 130 MV. Skinny leg & ankle, 6th toe bump made me opt for MV. The ankle area is roomy, and I’m lacking response from the boot. It’s comfortable. I like the stance.
Atomic Professional is on my radar for next year. They seem to check all the boxes. I don’t go into any stores these days, but will next Fall. I have worked with several folks here in VT who are really good at boot fitting so I have easy access to that.
Lightweight is not a priority for me. Will the Club Sport work for my foot shape?

 

[AlpedHuez]

Will the Club Sport work for my foot shape?

I'm no boot-fitter, but I would say one would have to examine your foot in person to determine this suitability for the CS?

 

[onenerdykid]

Currently in a 2nd year (orange with black cuff, canted with cantology inserts) Tecnica Mach 1 130 MV. Skinny leg & ankle, 6th toe bump made me opt for MV. The ankle area is roomy, and I’m lacking response from the boot. It’s comfortable. I like the stance.
Atomic Professional is on my radar for next year. They seem to check all the boxes. I don’t go into any stores these days, but will next Fall. I have worked with several folks here in VT who are really good at boot fitting so I have easy access to that.
Lightweight is not a priority for me. Will the Club Sport work for my foot shape?

Hard to say without seeing your foot and foot in the boot, but if a 100mm boot is too roomy for you, dropping down a level should be really easy to get right for you. If you want more performance, you find the boot that fits your skinny ankle and then make space in the areas that you need. I would steer you to either the Hawx Ultra (one step narrower than your current boot) or the Club Sport (two steps narrower). The Hawx Ultra sounds like it would just need a little stretch off your 6th toe (if anything) while the Club Sport would require more work to get right. The latter option will depend more on your patience and skill of the boot-fitter involved.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

I hope that Atomic is going to really work with shops(that get these boots) to get the employees all trained up.

There is ALOT going on here, and setting up these boots looks very different than getting a 10-15 day a year skier set up in a ‘basic’ boot or even a more ‘traditional’ high-end boot.

I’ve had some very ‘different’ experiences with shops that carry the same ‘race’ boots in regards to staff knowledge. Its abit un-nerving when I know the employee is obviously learning some new technology on my boots!

-Chris

 

[Choucas]

Hard to say without seeing your foot and foot in the boot, but if a 100mm boot is too roomy for you, dropping down a level should be really easy to get right for you. If you want more performance, you find the boot that fits your skinny ankle and then make space in the areas that you need. I would steer you to either the Hawx Ultra (one step narrower than your current boot) or the Club Sport (two steps narrower). The Hawx Ultra sounds like it would just need a little stretch off your 6th toe (if anything) while the Club Sport would require more work to get right. The latter option will depend more on your patience and skill of the boot-fitter involved.

Just what I was looking for. I'll follow up in the Fall with local shops in VT who are carrying the boots. I've always skied in race or near race boots (mostly Langes before they came in widths and not without lots of not totally successful modifications) until the Mach 1's. Feel like I need a boot with more juice on the performance side of the equation.

 

[onenerdykid]

I hope that Atomic is going to really work with shops(that get these boots) to get the employees all trained up.

There is ALOT going on here, and setting up these boots looks very different than getting a 10-15 day a year skier set up in a ‘basic’ boot or even a more ‘traditional’ high-end boot.

I’ve had some very ‘different’ experiences with shops that carry the same ‘race’ boots in regards to staff knowledge. Its abit un-nerving when I know the employee is obviously learning some new technology on my boots!

-Chris

Of course we will. This may be new to a lot of you, but the processes which you heard me talk of are nothing new to shops that already sell Intuition, Sidas, Boot Doc, or Zip Fit. Moreover, the Mimic Professional liner is much easier to make than a traditional foam liner, and any shop that sells Sidas, Boot Doc, etc. will see this too. This will be a welcome sight for shops who do custom boot-fitting.

 

[Jb.schulte]

If space is only needed in a certain area (like a toe box), it's generally best to treat the one local area. So, I would just do a toe punch and then fit the liner afterward.

A shop could use a stock liner to Memory Fit the shell and then do the foaming, but they would need to find a stock liner that isn't being used / doesn't belong to another boot. That would work but it might be a little roomy though.

I'm pretty much all in on this boot (Hawx Ultra 130 S Professional) and based on trying on the Hawx Ultra 120 this year, I think I'll have a pretty good out of the box fit. in the 98 mm last in 26.5. My L foot is basically 99mm and my Right is 97mm. So I might not need much shell work done, but ONK it sounds like you are saying that with the Professional liners the Memory Fit is a no go. If so why even bother with a heat moldable shell?

 

[onenerdykid]

I'm pretty much all in on this boot (Hawx Ultra 130 S Professional) and based on trying on the Hawx Ultra 120 this year, I think I'll have a pretty good out of the box fit. in the 98 mm last in 26.5. My L foot is basically 99mm and my Right is 97mm. So I might not need much shell work done, but ONK it sounds like you are saying that with the Professional liners the Memory Fit is a no go. If so why even bother with a heat moldable shell?

Memory Fit is tool for expanding a boot, but it's not the only way to expand a boot. Moreover, not all customization requires expansion. Sometimes customization means only addressing the liner, or even reducing the amount of volume inside the shell.

Heat moldable plastic is still a huge benefit for easily stretching a boot. It stretches more easily and holds its shape long term better.

 

[Funkendrenchman]

In order to Memory Fit a boot, you will need a finished liner to push the shell out in the needed areas. But in the Professional Series, the liner is basically empty and the liner is unable to do that in its current state, so Memory Fitting the boot simply won't work. A shop would need to stretch the toe box for length, width, any ankle punches and then foam the liner to a "cold shell" as you put it. This is how the shop that fit your Club Sport boots operated- work on the shell, then fit the liner to the shell.

If the shop only works with Memory Fit, then the Professional Series most likely won't be for them.

What if you have an old Mimic liner? Would it work to memory fit with the regular Mimic liner and then heat and foam the Professional liner to the memory fit shell?

 

[onenerdykid]

What if you have an old Mimic liner? Would it work to memory fit with the regular Mimic liner and then heat and foam the Professional liner to the memory fit shell?

It depends on if you need the shell expanded or not. If you don't need the shell expanded, don't do Memory Fit. Take me, for example. I can wear a Hawx Ultra out of the box with no shell work. The shell works for my foot already, so Memory Fit is the wrong customization solution for me. I just need to customize the liner, whether it be a Mimic liner or a Mimic Professional liner.

Simple Guidelines:

• If the foot is wider than the shell, then you need to expand the shell. Memory Fit is one way to do this, but so is traditional stretching/grinding. Memory Fit is great for shaping large areas that is difficult to achieve through traditional stretching or for when the skier simply doesn't have time to do multiple re-fits with his/her boot-fitter. Traditional stretching is preferred when you only need small areas customized or for when the skier wants the most precise, best skiing fit. The choice lays with the skier and his/her boot-fitter to determine the best course of action.

• If the foot shape matches the shell shape, then there is no need to modify the shell. Just customize the liner.

• If the foot shape is narrower than the shell, then the boot-fitter is looking to take up excess space.

 

[Quandary]

Curious whether you tried sliding the "sizing insole" in, under your footbed and the liner?

This works great for me for a tighter alpine fit, and I pull it out for skinning (because I do so little I don't want blisters).

Put the sizing insole in under my custom footbed. Viola! Perfect. gave my the volume I needed to counter act the liner packing.

 

[Jb.schulte]

Put the sizing insole in under my custom footbed. Viola! Perfect. gave my the volume I needed to counter act the liner packing.

What is a “sizing” insole?

 

[cantunamunch]

What is a “sizing” insole?

A completely flat piece of material. https://www.tognar.com/ski-boot-insole-shims-pr/

 

[James]

“Sizing insoles” make say a 27.5 boot a 27, since both of those are the same shell and liner. So a 1/16th of an inch flat piece. Prob a little less actually.
Some don’t even bother with the extra piece.

 

[Jb.schulte]

“Sizing insoles” make say a 27.5 boot a 27, since both of those are the same shell and liner. So a 1/16th of an inch flat piece. Prob a little less actually.
Some don’t even bother with the extra piece.

So it sets on top of the Zeppa?

 

[Tom K.]

Put the sizing insole in under my custom footbed. Viola! Perfect. gave my the volume I needed to counter act the liner packing.

Glad to hear! You can owe me a cheap cup of coffee.

So it sets on top of the Zeppa?

In this case, no, under your foot bed of choice, inside the liner.

 

[KingGrump]

So it sets on top of the Zeppa?

Kinda,, sorta.

Inside the liner. On the bottom.