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The Atomic Professional Series

ScottB

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Question for the Nerdy Kid if you may. Skiing the CS130 with a zipfit for the past season and a half (C19).
Really really like the fit, response. 5'11" and 160lbs me is and Most of the time the flex pattern is spot on with little to no distortion in the clog......but......there are times when it feels maybe a little too stiff to initiate the flex. I have considered relieving the V but I would like to read your thoughts on the leverage effect of increasing the forward lean angle with, I think they (you) call it the power shift? I have tried this with the thick shim at the rear between the clog and the cuff and still only one cuff bolt and it indeed changed, softened, my perceived feel of the flex pattern. No real variation in the outside air temperature or power strap when A-B ing the change. Thanks for any thoughts.
Is using the thicker, 5mm shim in the back solving the issue for you? Or is it still a little too stiff?

If you are wishing the boot initiated the flex more easily, I would have the shell Vs cut down a bit. Perhaps just a couple of millimeters at first, then see how that feels. If not enough, do a couple more. I think you will find this to be the best way to arrive at your desired flex pattern because even though it's non-reversible, you are taking off so little that it won't feel like you've done too much too soon.

I have tried the thicker shim in my CS130's and also cut the V down some. I also keep the power strap loose around the shell, but snug around the liner (upper band with velcro adjustment). I agree cutting the V is the biggest change, but I would add that it does make a significant change, so as ONK said, do it in small steps till you get "soft enough". Here is what I experienced through my "dialing in" process this past season.

1. Thicker shim - 18 deg forward lean. I love this lean angle, not too much for me (I have 36" inseam) and it puts me in the almost perfect skiing position. It also means I don't need to flex the boots as much to get the same range of downward body motion. I look at it as I naturally want to flex up and down a certain amount. If in a very upright boot, then you are too straight and need more downward or forward flex range of motion ROM from the boot. If too far forward, can't straighten up enough and you get thigh burn too quick. The CS's 18 feels just right to me. It might have softened the boots flex a little, but not much that I noticed. Personal preference on the forward lean setting for sure.
2. The bootfitter suggested I use a single screw in the top hole on the back of the boot. After installing the 18deg shim, he drilled a hole and put the screw in the top hole. Plugged the bottom hole. Again, minor change but probably something additive.
3. Keeping the power strap loose around the shell, but snug on the liner makes a noticeable difference in stiffness when deep into the flex. It ramps up much stiffer with the strap snug around the shell too. Its a nice feature of the dual zone strap. I have ordered the new professional elastic dual zone strap for next year and that should be even better. Its PN is AZE001686.
4. This plastic (PU) is very sensitive to temperature, as are all high end racing boots that use PU. Its a compromise to get the flex just right. I guess the best target is a little too stiff when really cold and a little too soft when really warm. A plastic not affected by temp but with the identical properties of PU is the holy grail that doesn't exist yet. Girilimid is a pretty temp constant plastic, but a lot different feel than PU. The Hawx XTD touring boot I also own is Girilimid.
5. Cutting the V. I have done this on my Lange RS140 boot and it did not make a large difference. I also did it on my CS130 and it had a much bigger effect. The clog has 3 V lines molded in, I cut to the second line, and I really like the results. Only on really cold days do the boots get overly stiff now. In spring skiing they were perfect. I did it myself with a dremel tool. The boot still has zero shell distortion. I also tried loosening the top buckle one notch looser than normal when skiing moguls and I liked that effect as well. With the top buckle looser, you have more ROM with the tongue padding compression. It really doesn't change the boot flex, but it delays it a few degrees and you don't have to flex as deep into the boot, so its overall feel is softer. Still perfect foot hold even with the cuff slightly looser. When on groomers I snug it back up to normal for a little quicker response. Here are some pic's.

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My old Lange RS140's

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Quandary

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Hey Matt, I just listened to your "Boot Suspension" podcast with Blister. That induced me to go back and listen the Professional Series podcast. This raised questions in my mind regarding the fitting/injection process for the new Professional Seres liner I have on order. The liners will go into my Hawx Prime 130's. The shell is fitted and needs no adjustment. Being a bit of a control freak I would like to understand the fitting process for the new liners. As I understand it the basic steps my boot shop will follow are:

1. Heat liner
2. Insert liner into shell
3. Put boots on buckle - this step allows the Mimic liner to form to your foot
4. After sufficient time has passed for the Mimic liner to mold to your foot, but while it is still warm, inject the liner with the injectable liner material (not sure the word "foam" should be used?)
5. Go ski

Some of questions regarding this process:

1. In the Mimic molding process the shop I use will really crank the buckles beyond where they would be for skiing, is this correct?
2. I would assume that during the injection process the buckle should be closed no tighter than where I would normal have the buckles when skiing. Presumably this would allow the liner to properly load with "foam". Is this correct?
3. What is the approximate time for the Mimic molding before the foam injection?
4. I ski with Hotronic heating elements in my boots. This requires a small slit to be cut into the liner for the cable. Is this ok for the Professional Series liner?

Thanks so much for your insight!
 
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TS
onenerdykid

onenerdykid

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Hey Matt, I just listened to your "Boot Suspension" podcast with Blister. That induced me to go back and listen the Professional Series podcast. This raised questions in my mind regarding the fitting/injection process for the new Professional Seres liner I have on order. The liners will go into my Hawx Prime 130's. The shell is fitted and needs no adjustment. Being a bit of a control freak I would like to understand the fitting process for the new liners. As I understand it the basic steps my boot shop will follow are:

1. Heat liner
2. Insert liner into shell
3. Put boots on buckle - this step allows the Mimic liner to form to your foot
4. After sufficient time has passed for the Mimic liner to mold to your foot, but while it is still warm, inject the liner with the injectable liner material (not sure the word "foam" should be used?)
5. Go ski

Some of questions regarding this process:

1. In the Mimic molding process the shop I use will really crank the buckles beyond where they would be for skiing, is this correct?
2. I would assume that during the injection process the buckle should be closed no tighter than where I would normal have the buckles when skiing. Presumably this would allow the liner to properly load with "foam". Is this correct?
3. What is the approximate time for the Mimic molding before the foam injection?
4. I ski with Hotronic heating elements in my boots. This requires a small slit to be cut into the liner for the cable. Is this ok for the Professional Series liner?

Thanks so much for your insight!

Hey Quandary, Mimic Professional is indeed a type of foam injection liner. I'll address your questions in the order you gave them.

1. Normally, they shouldn't crank the buckles down when molding a (regular) Mimic liner. Buckles should be on a medium tension. I often hear that shops do this and it must come from them applying the Intuition liner fitting strategy to Mimic. It's simply not ideal because it can overly compress the foams, creating a wider fit, unless that is the goal.
2. The boot is initially buckled on a medium tension (to find the right setting), the buckles are then released but still attached to the toothplates, the liner is foamed, the buckles are then closed when the needed amount of foam is in the liner.
3. It is done simultaneously. The liner comes out of the oven, it is foamed as soon as the it goes into the shell, while the Mimic material is still warm. Everything cools and hardens together.
4. Adding Hotronics won't be an issue.
 
Thread Starter
TS
onenerdykid

onenerdykid

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@onenerdykid Any updates re availability of the new strap?

Same as before - late summer/early fall. An FYI for everyone- being early is not going to be an option. We need to remember that outside of the USA, the pandemic is still a big problem and delays are everywhere. But luckily we are still seeing an on time arrival for our products. Fingers crossed it stays that way.
 

bremmick

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ONK,

Looking for your thoughts on where to start with a boot. Wear a 13 street shoe, have narrowish (103-104) front of foot, really wide heel, and skinny ankles.

Current boots Lange RX 130 LV, have been a nightmare to fit and cannot get the rear half of my footing fitting well after countless stretches, punches, grinds, etc..

Navicular and Heel have been a constant issue.
 
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TS
onenerdykid

onenerdykid

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ONK,

Looking for your thoughts on where to start with a boot. Wear a 13 street shoe, have narrowish (103-104) front of foot, really wide heel, and skinny ankles.

Current boots Lange RX 130 LV, have been a nightmare to fit and cannot get the rear half of my footing fitting well after countless stretches, punches, grinds, etc..

Navicular and Heel have been a constant issue.

Hey bremmick, This is going to be very hard for me to get right given that I can't see your foot and just how wide your heel is in comparison to the heel of the shell, but my gut reaction is to say Hawx Ultra 130 Professional. It's a similar volume shell to what you have, but easily heat moldable & modifiable, and the liner is made exactly to the needs of your foot & shell combination. One issue with your average liner is that it has a set thickness of foam around your ankle/heel (and same thickness left vs. right) that boot fitters can't normally change. With the Mimic Professional liner, the foam thickness is created by the foaming process and is exactly the thickness you need- it's filling the exact space between your navicular/ankle/heel and the shell wall, and uniquely made for your left foot vs. your right.
 

LiquidFeet

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Hey bremmick, This is going to be very hard for me to get right given that I can't see your foot and just how wide your heel is in comparison to the heel of the shell, but my gut reaction is to say Hawx Ultra 130 Professional. It's a similar volume shell to what you have, but easily heat moldable & modifiable, and the liner is made exactly to the needs of your foot & shell combination. One issue with your average liner is that it has a set thickness of foam around your ankle/heel (and same thickness left vs. right) that boot fitters can't normally change. With the Mimic Professional liner, the foam thickness is created by the foaming process and is exactly the thickness you need- it's filling the exact space between your navicular/ankle/heel and the shell wall, and uniquely made for your left foot vs. your right.
What a useful response to bremmick's question. It's so good to have you posting here.
 
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ScottB

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I am reposting this review here as it seems appropriate and this boot has been discussed in this thread

I bought this boot at the beginning of the 2020-2021 ski season and have used it all year. I followed the expert advice of @onenerdykid, Matt Manser (Atomic Ski Boot Product Manager), and was very pleased with the purchase. There aren't many reviews of this boot on the web, so I decided to put some time into a detailed review to show my appreciation to Matt for some great advice.


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Jb.schulte

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First ScottB, thanks for such an in depth review. that was fantastic

Second ONK, will there be a list of ski shops that carry the professional series soon?
 
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onenerdykid

onenerdykid

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First ScottB, thanks for such an in depth review. that was fantastic

Second ONK, will there be a list of ski shops that carry the professional series soon?
Should be one of the filters within the dealer locator function on the new website, which should be landing late August/early September.
 

James

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Great review, thanks.
Can you explain this process? You're in the boot with the liner in it? Level is on the toe lug?
4993C46B-ACAF-42CE-B447-BD44D44243CF.jpeg

Also, is it possible to adjust the orientation of the cuff? I.e., rotate it inward or outward looking down from above. In the transverse plane.
 
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onenerdykid

onenerdykid

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Great review, thanks.
Can you explain this process? You're in the boot with the liner in it? Level is on the toe lug? View attachment 139426
Also, is it possible to adjust the orientation of the cuff? I.e., rotate it inward or outward looking down from above. In the transverse plane.
Not sure if Scott used the same thing, but Atomic actually makes a fancy boot-fitter's tool called the Canting Assessment System, which assesses how much sole canting you need per boot. You stand on metal platforms that are a little longer than your boot and under the platforms are/can be foam blocks that compress under load and you adjust the canting angle on the platform until you are level.
Foam Pads.PNG
CAS 2.PNG

None of the cuffs on our current Redster boots feature cuff rotation. This was something we did in the first generation Redster (with the carbon-loaded PU material in the shell heel/cuff spine) but no one really used it and it didn't make it's way into the subsequent iterations. But, some World Cup athletes do mess around with this, but the cuff is simply mounted in the spot they want rather than using an adjustable flip chip to rotate the cuff around.
 

James

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Not sure if Scott used the same thing, but Atomic actually makes a fancy boot-fitter's tool called the Canting Assessment System, which assesses how much sole canting you need per boot. You stand on metal platforms that are a little longer than your boot and under the platforms are/can be foam blocks that compress under load and you adjust the canting angle on the platform until you are level.
View attachment 139470 View attachment 139471
None of the cuffs on our current Redster boots feature cuff rotation. This was something we did in the first generation Redster (with the carbon-loaded PU material in the shell heel/cuff spine) but no one really used it and it didn't make it's way into the subsequent iterations. But, some World Cup athletes do mess around with this, but the cuff is simply mounted in the spot they want rather than using an adjustable flip chip to rotate the cuff around.
Very interesting. It’s a precise and technical version of standing in skis on foam. What Mark Elling talked about in his 2nd book years ago.
 

ScottB

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The BootPro shop in Ludlow VT has a similar device as the one you show, ONK. Its not as fancy but probably accomplishes the same thing. Theirs has a 4" block of foam sandwiched between two metal plates. One device for each foot. There is a heel placement ridge on each top plate (as opposed to toe hold). I put the boots on with liners and buckled them up, forward lean was set already. I stood on the blocks. The foam compressed some and tilted whichever way it needed to. I got into a skiing stance and they put a dial gauge on the top plate that read off the angle (like a level but no bubble, instead a needle on a dial). They said one foot was 1/2 degree off. They loosened up the cuff angle adjustment eccentrics on each boot. They adjusted the cuff angle on both boots and rechecked the angle gauge which both read zero. I had never seen anything like that before and I was pretty impressed with what seemed like an effective, but simple way to check your cant. I assume if they couldn't get the device level with cuff angle adjustment, then we would have discussed sole cant modificaitons.
 

ScottB

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ONK,
When I looked at your eccentric cuff angle adjustment, it seemed there was a small amount of rotation in the adjustment, just due to the eccentric. Its not independent from the angle adjustment, it comes along for the ride. I am not sure if you can maintain a certain cuff angle and get some rotation by making the inside and outside cuff eccentric go in opposite directions. Not worth getting into a deep dive about, just something I noticed when I was putting my boots back together after cutting the v notch in my boots to soften them.
 
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onenerdykid

onenerdykid

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ONK,
When I looked at your eccentric cuff angle adjustment, it seemed there was a small amount of rotation in the adjustment, just due to the eccentric. Its not independent from the angle adjustment, it comes along for the ride. I am not sure if you can maintain a certain cuff angle and get some rotation by making the inside and outside cuff eccentric go in opposite directions. Not worth getting into a deep dive about, just something I noticed when I was putting my boots back together after cutting the v notch in my boots to soften them.
Correct, all eccentric/ex-center cuff alignment units have a bit of a rotational effect going on it. It's not a ton, but it is there. And you can try to adjust both at the same time, just don't shoot for perfection and drive yourself mad for two hours trying to achieve it ;)
 

Aquila

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Not sure if Scott used the same thing, but Atomic actually makes a fancy boot-fitter's tool called the Canting Assessment System, which assesses how much sole canting you need per boot. You stand on metal platforms that are a little longer than your boot and under the platforms are/can be foam blocks that compress under load and you adjust the canting angle on the platform until you are level.
View attachment 139470 View attachment 139471
None of the cuffs on our current Redster boots feature cuff rotation. This was something we did in the first generation Redster (with the carbon-loaded PU material in the shell heel/cuff spine) but no one really used it and it didn't make it's way into the subsequent iterations. But, some World Cup athletes do mess around with this, but the cuff is simply mounted in the spot they want rather than using an adjustable flip chip to rotate the cuff around.
Oh shoot, my boot fitter has this exact Atomic tool, got it new this year. We'll probably check out the canting on my boots next season once I get new boots, but we've discussed it. Apparently they've done the canting assessment and adjustment on quite a few high level instructors and had really excellent feedback. Sounds like it can make a real difference. Very cool!
 

Philpug

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The BootPro shop in Ludlow VT has a similar device as the one you show, ONK. Its not as fancy but probably accomplishes the same thing. Theirs has a 4" block of foam sandwiched between two metal plates. One device for each foot. There is a heel placement ridge on each top plate (as opposed to toe hold). I put the boots on with liners and buckled them up, forward lean was set already. I stood on the blocks. The foam compressed some and tilted whichever way it needed to. I got into a skiing stance and they put a dial gauge on the top plate that read off the angle (like a level but no bubble, instead a needle on a dial). They said one foot was 1/2 degree off. They loosened up the cuff angle adjustment eccentrics on each boot. They adjusted the cuff angle on both boots and rechecked the angle gauge which both read zero. I had never seen anything like that before and I was pretty impressed with what seemed like an effective, but simple way to check your cant. I assume if they couldn't get the device level with cuff angle adjustment, then we would have discussed sole cant modificaitons.
There are many ways to skin the cat when it comes to boot canting and alignment. Most of these were designed by fitters themselves (necessity is the mother of invention). Foam blocks, lasers, plumb bobs, wands, we have seen them all and all work but also only as good as the technician using them.
 

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