The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion

[maxwerks]

Without having tested on a bench, can we assess from these photos if there is a potential issue with my Hawx Ultra XTD WTR soles in this Griffon demo binding? Seller says the binding is GW and WTR compatible, but I have no way of confirming. Both DIN and WTR toes click in readily.

 

[ScottB]

That seems like your best best. You can call the Atomic EU warehouse to see if they have stock, but they won't sell to you, have to go through a shop. On the website, they list Atomic Race centers by country and can probably call one of them to place an order if what you are doing doesn't work out. I though ONK might respond too.

 

[Bruno Schull]

@Scott--thanks for that (I think it was directed at my posts about boot liners!)

@ maxwerks--do the bindings have a toe height adjustment? You will probably need to adjust that when/if you switch between boots. Other than that, I simply don't have enough experience with bindings to know if that looks OK. More experienced voices will hopefully chime in.

 

[maxwerks]

@Scott--thanks for that (I think it was directed at my posts about boot liners!)

@ maxwerks--do the bindings have a toe height adjustment? You will probably need to adjust that when/if you switch between boots. Other than that, I simply don't have enough experience with bindings to know if that looks OK. More experienced voices will hopefully chime in.

No the griffon demo binding is self adjusting, no tools required

 

[Bruno Schull]

OK, cool. That's one less thing to woprry about Good luck.

 

[ScottB]

@maxwerks that looks good to me from your pictures. If both boots toes fit in without forcing them and the heel clicks in then your are in good shape. Pull on the back cuff so the toe wants to lift up and see if there is any significant movement (like a few mm), there might be a little play either way, but it should be minimal. Push forward as well to check for play. If no play then you are good to go. The toe height to AFD pad of a Alpine boot is a different dimension, but WTR and Grip Walk are similar. Grip Walk and WTR have their boot pads or flat spots in different places, but there is some overlap, so if the AFD is the right distance from the toe, it can work for both. Bindings that are WRT but not GW, or visa versa have the AFD placement at different distances.

 

[maxwerks]

I agree the WTR do seem to fit.Two points of concern though. Firstly the Marker 17/18 catalog information does not state WTR compatibility for this binding. Secondly, if I insert a playing card between the sole and the friction plate, I can pull it out easily with the DIN sole, while it is very hard to remove with the WTR. I will contact Marker tech support to double check.

 

[ScottB]

I think Phil has posted that some older Markers were Grip Walk and WTR compatible, even though they weren't labeled as such. If you can pull the card out at all, you are good. I personally like zero play, or not able to get the card in, but that is personal preference. If you can get the card in and out, good to go. As a safety check to alleviate your concerns, have a shop do a release test on them with both boots.

The thing to verify is the AFD is on the plastic flat plate under the boot, and not on the rubber sole under the boot. If you are, you are good.

 

[onenerdykid]

I agree the WTR do seem to fit.Two points of concern though. Firstly the Marker 17/18 catalog information does not state WTR compatibility for this binding. Secondly, if I insert a playing card between the sole and the friction plate, I can pull it out easily with the DIN sole, while it is very hard to remove with the WTR. I will contact Marker tech support to double check. View attachment 146301

Sorry for the delay everyone, I'm on holiday

For this boot/binding question, it comes down to this:
WTR = the Touring Norm ISO 9523 - it is not GripWalk.

If you have a boot with a WTR sole, you essentially have a boot with a Touring Norm ISO 9523 sole and you need a binding that can manually adjust to accommodate such a sole. There is no such thing as "automatic adaptation between ISO 5355, GW, and ISO 9523".

Put it another way (in terms of binding compatibility)- you need to think of a WTR boot as you would a full-rubber Touring Norm boot, like a Scarpa Maestrale or Tecnica Zero-G.

If your binding does not accommodate those boots, it does not accommodate a WTR sole.

 

[Counted]

Hi, what's the difference betweeen the Redster CS 110 & Redster Club Sport 110. Other than looks and shell thickness I haven't really noticed any differences. Thanks in advance!

 

[onenerdykid]

Club Sport = CS

Are you comparing different model years?

 

[maxwerks]

@onenerdykid Due to an old skiing injury my left leg has only half the range of ankle flex compared to my right leg, as measured by # centimeters knee over toes. To accommodate I want to experiment with the most upright lean angle on my left boot. I adjusted the lean angle by unfastening the ankle bolts and the spine bolt, then pulled back the cuff as far as possible. For the experiment I similarly adjusted the right boot for maximum forward lean. The difference is quite small though as you can see on the photos. Wondering if this is the correct result?

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid Due to an old skiing injury my left leg has only half the range of ankle flex compared to my right leg, as measured by # centimeters knee over toes. To accommodate I want to experiment with the most upright lean angle on my left boot. I adjusted the lean angle by unfastening the ankle bolts and the spine bolt, then pulled back the cuff as far as possible. For the experiment I similarly adjusted the right boot for maximum forward lean. The difference is quite small though as you can see on the photos. Wondering if this is the correct result? View attachment 147097

You’re not going to get the boot to be a lot more upright- it’s just not made to do that, like our Hawx boots are.

And to get more forward lean, you will need to be in the boot, buckled up, flex it forward, and have someone else tighten it in place for you. You won’t be able to push the cuff forward by hand.

 

[Slider]

Hi,

Is the Hawx pro dual strap compatible with XTD boots ?
If yes, is the hardware coming with it (I have rivets on the 120) ?
If no, any tips to find it on EU market ?

Thanks a lot !

Cheers

 

[ScottB]

Hi,

Is the Hawx pro dual strap compatible with XTD boots ?
If yes, is the hardware coming with it (I have rivets on the 120) ?
If no, any tips to find it on EU market ?

Thanks a lot !

Cheers

I am not actually answering your question as I don't know, but I felt the dual strap would add to much weight to the boots so I bought the cam lock strap that comes on newer XTD's. You can see it on a boot at Atomics website and here is the PN in case your interested in getting it:

AZE001674 - 50mm Buckle Strap (Medium) [for Hawx Ultra XTD]

 

[Tony Storaro]

If no, any tips to find it on EU market ?

Patience?

Most of the stores I frequent still do not have the Professional series in stock.
The normal version of the boots 21/22 season-yes, professional-no.

Which got me thinking-do I buy now the new non-pro CS 130 or just wait until the Pro hit the shelves, which might be this year but maybe not.

 

[BLiP]

@onenerdykid What is the difference in performance between the Hawx Ultra 130S and the Redster CS 130? Specifically, does the CS provide a noticeable upgrade with hard snow performance?

I tried on the Ultra recently and it fit great (after trying about ten boots from different manufacturers, it was the clear winner). My bootfitter did not have the CS, unfortunately. I prefer to ski short radius turns on hardpack / icy conditions and rarely venture off of the groomers. I’m looking for the goldilocks of boots (isn’t everyone) that will be comfortable all day yet still provide (near) top levels of performance and be able to drive a cheater, or even FIS, SL.

From previous posts on this forum, I understand that the fit difference between the Ultra and the CS is not overly significant, i.e., if you fit comfortably in the Ultra, it is pretty easy to get the CS to work as well.

Would it be worth tracking down a bootfitter who stocks the CS, or would the performance difference be marginal for someone who is done bashing gates?

Thanks for all of your input on these forums, and I apologize if this question has already been addressed (too many pages to go through).

 

[maxwerks]

You’re not going to get the boot to be a lot more upright- it’s just not made to do that, like our Hawx boots are.

And to get more forward lean, you will need to be in the boot, buckled up, flex it forward, and have someone else tighten it in place for you. You won’t be able to push the cuff forward by hand.

Finally able to try on the new STI 150 boots with zipfits, after canting and lean adjustments and memoryfitted using stock liners. Compared to my old Redster FIS 150 these are (1) much lower volume and (2) notably easier to flex. The old boots with thicker material and carbon spine are rock hard compared to the STI 150. The zipfits only fit if I wear a really thin sock. I have no idea which will feel better skiing SL, GS and bumps. Will report back soon...

 

[onenerdykid]

Hi,

Is the Hawx pro dual strap compatible with XTD boots ?
If yes, is the hardware coming with it (I have rivets on the 120) ?
If no, any tips to find it on EU market ?

Thanks a lot !

Cheers

They will definitely fit (same cuff geometry as regular Hawx Ultra) and aftermarket straps come with mounting hardware.

In the EU, you can usually find them online with shops and our Atomic.com website.

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid What is the difference in performance between the Hawx Ultra 130S and the Redster CS 130? Specifically, does the CS provide a noticeable upgrade with hard snow performance?

I tried on the Ultra recently and it fit great (after trying about ten boots from different manufacturers, it was the clear winner). My bootfitter did not have the CS, unfortunately. I prefer to ski short radius turns on hardpack / icy conditions and rarely venture off of the groomers. I’m looking for the goldilocks of boots (isn’t everyone) that will be comfortable all day yet still provide (near) top levels of performance and be able to drive a cheater, or even FIS, SL.

From previous posts on this forum, I understand that the fit difference between the Ultra and the CS is not overly significant, i.e., if you fit comfortably in the Ultra, it is pretty easy to get the CS to work as well.

Would it be worth tracking down a bootfitter who stocks the CS, or would the performance difference be marginal for someone who is done bashing gates?

Thanks for all of your input on these forums, and I apologize if this question has already been addressed (too many pages to go through).

The Redster CS is a noticeable jump up in skiing performance, stability at speed, and overall suspension. It’s built very similarly to a real World Cup level boot. If you are spending lots of time on commercial and World Cup level skis, then you will appreciate the CS instead of the Ultra.