The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion

[Triplet]

@onenerdykid, first I'd like to thank you for the Deep dive series on the Gear:30 podcast, have listened to all of them. Had some fun while doing so as well .
Now I have some question about the STI models - from easy to hard. 1) How much can the cuffs be canted?

2) Would the 110 be too much flex for someone who's 61kg(130ish pounds), 176cm, upper intermediate?

3) Sizing. The local dealer had only 25.5, no 26 to be stocked unfortunately. I can purchase those online from somewhere around Europe. The 25s is too short out of the box, maybe 5mm too short.. I know I have around 15mm heel space in most 26.5 shells. Forgot to do the shell fit in the 25. For comparison, I tried ClubSport in both 25 and 26, the 25 felt as short as the STI in 25, 26 CS feels long to me(my toes pulls back quite a bit when I bend my knees) But the last of the CS is much roomier, way less rounder compared to the STI. With the shim insert it's closer fitting in length.
*I do have access to a bootfitter.
What would be a better size?
Thanks in advance.

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid, first I'd like to thank you for the Deep dive series on the Gear:30 podcast, have listened to all of them. Had some fun while doing so as well .
Now I have some question about the STI models - from easy to hard. 1) How much can the cuffs be canted?

2) Would the 110 be too much flex for someone who's 61kg(130ish pounds), 176cm, upper intermediate?

3) Sizing. The local dealer had only 25.5, no 26 to be stocked unfortunately. I can purchase those online from somewhere around Europe. The 25s is too short out of the box, maybe 5mm too short.. I know I have around 15mm heel space in most 26.5 shells. Forgot to do the shell fit in the 25. For comparison, I tried ClubSport in both 25 and 26, the 25 felt as short as the STI in 25, 26 CS feels long to me(my toes pulls back quite a bit when I bend my knees) But the last of the CS is much roomier, way less rounder compared to the STI. With the shim insert it's closer fitting in length.
*I do have access to a bootfitter.
What would be a better size?
Thanks in advance.

Hi Triplet, glad you are liking the podcasts!

To your questions:
1. The cuffs have excenter hardware on both medial & lateral sides, which you can usually get a 4° range of adjustment.
2. Probably not - this boot can also be easily softened (by a boot-fitter) to produce a softer flex if the 110 ends up being too stiff for you.
3. This is very hard to judge over the internet, but I would say 25... this size will not feel good out of the box, but if you only need to gain 5mm in length, that is relatively easy for a boot-fitter to achieve.

 

[Tom K.]

I was happy to go get fitted at a shop for the XTDs but I am a volunteer patroller with access to an Atomic discount. I'd be open to the idea of picking up a non-XTD pair solely for inbounds skiing. Would I be good to grab the same size in the Hawx Ultra 130s?

I own the XTD and the "new" S. The S is a solid step up from the XTD in pretty much every regard, with no downside, and I love it. If I'm not skinning, I'm in the S. The only downside is the walk to and from the car.

 

[Chris Johnson]

I own the XTD and the "new" S. The S is a solid step up from the XTD in pretty much every regard, with no downside, and I love it. If I'm not skinning, I'm in the S. The only downside is the walk to and from the car.

Anything specific? I came from my first pair of boots (110 flex K2s that were sooo heavy for touring) and find the XTD's much stiffer and supportive. Would the S's be just even more so?

 

[Ron]

Quick review/product summary of the Ultra Hawx Pro 130's.

I purchased a pair of these at my LSS in September. I wasn't planning on buying them but I was immediately impressed with the shape, construction and features of the boot. I'm a fan of PU shells, the PU absorbs vibration extremely well creating damp feel on the snow. the boot is fairly light, a good compromise of weight and stability. I'm a 10-10.5 street shoe and I ski a 26.5 shell. My last pair of boots were 304mm and prior boots were 306. The Atomics are 300 but when shell fitting my foot, there's actually even more fore/aft room! I really like the adjustable forward lean, it is controlled by a sliding position on the rear of the boot, allowing a 13-15-17* lean, you can add even more with spoilers. I left mine at 15*. The boots come stock with Grip walk soles.

One of the significant features is that the cuff can be adjusted in several different positions allowing a better balance around my calf. Atomic also created a strap that is actually better than the Booster strap. A feat (pun intended) that I didn't think was possible. The strap has a clever release function but the real magic is the extra wide front with a second velcro adjustment strap that allows for you to adjust how much the strap will flex under load. The other "thank god" feature is the ultra narrow cuff. this comes with the ability to move the buckles to 3 positions to adjust for calf width, not just the typical 2. Even with the stock medium volume tongue, (you can buy low and high volume versions) I am on the widest, first hole and only on the 3rd tooth of the upper buckle. The lower cuff buckle has 2 positions.

The foamed liner is superb. Yep, there's nothing like a foamed liner for the best fit (IMHO) and this liner foams well filling every nook and cranny. The Boot comes with all that is needed including toe caps, socks to go over liner when fitting and spacer pads for customization and of course the foam (the dealer has the injector, so consumers cant buy this online and foam at home) . The liner has a nice supportive and somewhat giving feel on your foot. The process is just like any other foamed liner, its brutally painful until your feet go numb . The end result is a very low volume fit, especially in the instep, ankle, achilles and calf with a more roomy toe box. The shell is heat moldable to accommodate your boney protrusions or odd shaped feet and the non-foamed area fore of the met heads is also heat moldable and is done concurrent to the foaming.

The Flex is Stout. I have been skiing a 130 flex but this flex is stiffer. On the snow, the flex is consistent and even throughout the flex range with no "hinges". It's far more supportive than any other boot I've owned.

I am blessed with pretty normal feet, so I only needed to adjust the cuff, evenly spacing it around my Tib/Fib. I did appreciate the greater degree of adjustment and was able to really dial in the cuffs. Allignment was excellent, I am within 1/2* on the left boot and it was pretty spot-on, on the right.

Getting into the boots is a little challenging due to the low volume fit. I use a Kulkea heated bag and although the PU material is fairly soft, I would recommend heating the shells up a little as the low instep made getting into the boots a little tight. Getting them off after skiing in 9* windchill temps was actually pretty good. They were stiff, but manageable without having to wait for them to warm up. (I booted up at my jeep).

On the snow the boot skis superbly. The PU shell skis very smoothly. Engagement on this boot is lightening fast and accurate. The stiff flex allowed me to relax in the boot allowing it to support my weight (170) and the fit is as expected, perfect; no hot spots or pinching. The liners feel great when skiing. As mentioned above the flex is dialed and the flex remained about the same even with the colder temps. My flex is within a range that optimizes input with my knee flex ending right about at the front of the toe gasket. When flexing my ankles, the boot has a smooth and natural feel. The boot has tremendous rebound energy, on carved turns, when releasing the ankles, the boot snaps back propelling me through the transition. I was actually skiing better due to the reduced lag time and extra pop of speed allowing me to get into position for the next turn faster! I also was able to ski some decent bumps on Loveland's Nix NoX and was duly impressed with the flex and feel here. I did notice the adjustable top strap flexing allowing you to effectively micro-adjust the flex. The first day on the snow was a good test for warmth, it was 9* with the windchill and my feet were toasty. I did install my heaters though for those zero degree days.

So, if you are seeking a low volume, high performing boot, you really need to track down a dealer who is authorized to sell these. For those who cant find the pro, I tried on the "regular" Ultra Hawx with the all Mimic liner and was very impressed with that boot as well. I don't think you will give up a significant level of performance, but it doesn't come with the same strap. You can buy the foamed liner next season if you wish to upgrade.

 

[onenerdykid]

Awesome stuff, @Ron - super happy that you are liking the boots! Keep us posted on how it progresses

 

[Tom K.]

Anything specific? I came from my first pair of boots (110 flex K2s that were sooo heavy for touring) and find the XTD's much stiffer and supportive. Would the S's be just even more so?

Yes, although I would say the additional stiffness doesn't show up until at least 1/3 into the boot's flex. "Off the top" the two feel very similar to me.

And I would echo most everything @Ron said above (though I don't have the foam liner, yet) except the part about flex and getting the boot on and off.

In comparison to my previous Raptors @130, these are a bit softer, and much easier in the on and off department.

Oh, and FAR warmer than the icebox Raptors!

 

[Ron]

get them foamed, ski them and take them off outside in the cold and then let me know. . Without the foam, you really dont have any support other than the shell. getting them off at 9* windchill, outside wasn't terrible. My older Langes were much worse, my K2 Rekons were easier for sure. the ease or difficulty of taking off putting on is really subjective I guess. the flex def felt stiffer in the Foamed Pro than the Mimic.

 

[fallingdown]

I’m really interested in pulling the trigger on the Redster CS 130 professional after years in Dalbello Panterras and Krypton’s. As much as I love the 3 piece boots I feel like I’ve gotten to a point that I can find there limit pretty quickly and am looking for a step up in performance. My only fear is if my wideish foot will work with these. I’ve never had much luck dropping under a 98mm last in the past.

 

[KingGrump]

I’m really interested in pulling the trigger on the Redster CS 130 professional after years in Dalbello Panterras and Krypton’s. As much as I love the 3 piece boots I feel like I’ve gotten to a point that I can find there limit pretty quickly and am looking for a step up in performance. My only fear is if my wideish foot will work with these. I’ve never had much luck dropping under a 98mm last in the past.

If you have really wide feet, the CS may not have enough width for you. You can get it molded and it may blow out a bit more.
Take a look at Roxa 3 piece boots. They are very good for wide feet and have a very high upper performance limits.

 

[Tom K.]

get them foamed, ski them and take them off outside in the cold and then let me know. . Without the foam, you really dont have any support other than the shell.

As I said, I don't have the foam liners, yet. Just the stock S liner. Foamies are hopefully on the way.

So, to be clear, it's not like I'm skiing the foam liners with no foam in them. My liners do, in fact, have darn good support.

 

[ScottB]

I’m really interested in pulling the trigger on the Redster CS 130 professional after years in Dalbello Panterras and Krypton’s. As much as I love the 3 piece boots I feel like I’ve gotten to a point that I can find there limit pretty quickly and am looking for a step up in performance. My only fear is if my wideish foot will work with these. I’ve never had much luck dropping under a 98mm last in the past.

I can pass along that a fellow skitalker usually skis a 100mm last and has now bought 2 pairs of Club Sports and loves them. It didn't sound like he had to do much work to them.

I ski them, but I have a narrow foot and only had one bony protrusion on my foot that needed a punch. Very easy fit for me. I don't have the professional model and either does the person I mentioned above.

I would expect you to be able to fit into them pretty easy as long as you have a good shop/or good bootfitter. They are heat moldable, so you will get some room by doing that. They are also made to be expanded by grinding and punching, so you should just expect that going in. They will probably hurt without work, but once expanded should be fine. There are a couple of tricks to help you sort it out. Each size up gets wider by 2mm, so try on a boot 2 sizes to big to get a sense of the max width that can be obtained by heat molding (~4mm expansion). Really, the bootfitter should be able to judge if they will work once he sees your feet in the boots. Ideally he will have done this before and be experienced. I would advise against an internet buy of these boots for your foot. Also, if the shop has a "guaranteed fit" policy, they will get you into another boot if the CS doesn't work for you.

I sat next to a guy during my bootfitters appointment last year who had gorilla feet. Size 17 and very wide. I struck up a conversation and being careful not to offend him, asked him if he had trouble getting ski boots that fit. He obviously did, and said he was on his second set of boots from the shop, but they guaranteed the fit, so they took his first pair back after they didn't work and put him in a different boot that was working much better, I think it was the wide Atomic Hawx boot.

 

[fallingdown]

I can pass along that a fellow skitalker usually skis a 100mm last and has now bought 2 pairs of Club Sports and loves them. It didn't sound like he had to do much work to them.

I ski them, but I have a narrow foot and only had one bony protrusion on my foot that needed a punch. Very easy fit for me. I don't have the professional model and either does the person I mentioned above.

I would expect you to be able to fit into them pretty easy as long as you have a good shop/or good bootfitter. They are heat moldable, so you will get some room by doing that. They are also made to be expanded by grinding and punching, so you should just expect that going in. They will probably hurt without work, but once expanded should be fine. There are a couple of tricks to help you sort it out. Each size up gets wider by 2mm, so try on a boot 2 sizes to big to get a sense of the max width that can be obtained by heat molding (~4mm expansion). Really, the bootfitter should be able to judge if they will work once he sees your feet in the boots. Ideally he will have done this before and be experienced. I would advise against an internet buy of these boots for your foot. Also, if the shop has a "guaranteed fit" policy, they will get you into another boot if the CS doesn't work for you.

I sat next to a guy during my bootfitters appointment last year who had gorilla feet. Size 17 and very wide. I struck up a conversation and being careful not to offend him, asked him if he had trouble getting ski boots that fit. He obviously did, and said he was on his second set of boots from the shop, but they guaranteed the fit, so they took his first pair back after they didn't work and put him in a different boot that was working much better, I think it was the wide Atomic Hawx boot.

Thanks for the reply! That’s what I needed to hear and will try to get in with my bootfitter soon to get his opinion as well.

 

[Tony Storaro]

@onenerdykid Hi man, a question about Hawx Ultra-the women version as these are the boots I will buy my wife for the new season (what with them being white and grey and pretty and all that-you know the drill ).
I see on Atomic website there is only a GW version of this year's Ultra 95. That true?

Because as far as I remember last year they came with alpine soles as well.
What is the difference in construction between the previous and the current model? Can I go far wrong with the older one?
What are the advantages of the GW? Downsides?

 

[ScottB]

First question is are your wife's bindings GW compatible? I do believe you can unscrew the GW sole and put an alpine sole on those boots, but I will let ONK respond with accurate info.

 

[Tony Storaro]

First question is are your wife's bindings GW compatible? I do believe you can unscrew the GW sole and put an alpine sole on those boots, but I will let ONK respond with accurate info.

Yes I believe Stockli/Salomon MC 11 are GW compatible. For her older ski I can always change the bindings.

 

[ScottB]

GW is nice going from car to slope, a little rocker really helps the sole (pun intended).

On the boot question, the Mimic liner from Atomic is really nice, worth it to get that. First year it was only in the top model, every year they offer it on more models. A friend of mine bought an older non-mimic model and I bought her mimic liners to upgrade. They aren't that expensive, especially on sale. This year's mens Ultra's have more rigid lowers (shells) but I am not sure about the womens, I suspect so.

 

[GregK]

@Tony Storaro As @ScottB mentioned about the men’s 2022 Hawx Ultra shells being beefed up, the Women’s are too(25% beefier IIRC and can see the thicker shell brace running from the rear cuff, under the cuff bolt towards the 2nd buckle), it adds the Mimic Gold liner and the GW soles as standard now.
So get the 2022 as long as the colour is spouse approved!

If she’s not a fan of the GW soles, I know you can order regular traditional replacements for about $40 a set as I just ordered some to have around for my 2020 Ultra 130s when they wear out.

 

[Tony Storaro]

@Tony Storaro As @ScottB mentioned about the men’s 2022 Hawx Ultra shells being beefed up, the Women’s are too(25% beefier IIRC and can see the thicker shell brace running from the rear cuff, under the cuff bolt towards the 2nd buckle), it adds the Mimic Gold liner and the GW soles as standard now.
So get the 2022 as long as the colour is spouse approved!

If she’s not a fan of the GW soles, I know you can order regular traditional replacements for about $40 a set as I just ordered some to have around for my 2020 Ultra 130s when they wear out.

Yes, thanks man. We will see about that GW thingy, she might like them who knows.
The colour is perfect, the white ones.

 

[Tom K.]

@Tony Storaro, the GW soles are best paired with Booster Straps. Unbelievable synergy!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

On a serious note, I can hardly wait to get my Professional LIners.

Sometime this month, I'm told.