The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion

[bbbradley]

My go-to shop in London is a supplier for competitive ski racers. They are usually out of the 26.5 CS and I asked my shop guy what the 25.5 would be like at 94 last. He said I wouldn't be happy in it compared to my 26.5 Dobermann GP 140 and DRS 140 (both 98 last). So I ended up ordering the 26.5 from Spain. Took quite a long time to get to me with the new post-Brexit and Covid restricted shipments. But so glad I went that route and stuck with the order when they gave me the option to cancel with the uncertain delivery fulfilment.

How does the Dobie compare to the Redster?

 

[AlpedHuez]

How does the Dobie compare to the Redster?

I really can't say, as I haven't had a chance to take them out skiing yet

 

[onenerdykid]

Hello onenerdykid, That's great that the 21/22 Hawx Magna 120 S is getting the Mimic Platinum Liner. Do you have the retail price of both the 21/22 Hawx Magna 130 S and Magna 120 S? Also, do you know when a photo of these boots will be available? Thanks.

HI Michael, I don't have US price list immediately in front of me, but the Hawx Magna pricing will generally align with Hawx Prime pricing. That will give you a good idea of what to expect.

I've attached the 130 S and 120 S for you.

 

[bbbradley]

I really can't say, as I haven't had a chance to take them out skiing yet

Well, how do they look as you clomp through the house in them?

 

[Slider]

1) PA/PU/True Flex PU

Is their use going to change on 2022 line-up ?
In other words :
PA still only on 130 xtd ?
True Flex PU still not below 120 for Prime ?
Magna still all standard PU ?

2) Redster Club Sport Wide ?

A few brand have developed 100mm width versions of their on-slope / amateur competitors boots.
Is there any chance to see something similar in a neer future for Redster CS for example ?

Merci

 

[AlpedHuez]

Well, how do they look as you clomp through the house in them?

OK this I can respond to The Dobermanns feel noticeably more stiff with foot/shin/calf locked in. Some of this could be their cork liner. Or the forward lean or ramp angle etc. Or the median metric with which Atomic sets its flex patterns against the competition. I certainly can’t lounge around with them for long, relaxing to watch tv or something.

In contrast, the CS just feels like it conforms to my foot/shin/calf in a more natural or custom form-fitting manner. I can wear the boot longer in break in without pains on top of the foot or along the sides.

Boot fits are such a personal, bespoke sui generis feel or feeling, so it is difficult to predict you or others would have the same experience. But I encourage you to try them on for yourself and see how you get on with them.

 

[MichaelG]

HI Michael, I don't have US price list immediately in front of me, but the Hawx Magna pricing will generally align with Hawx Prime pricing. That will give you a good idea of what to expect.

I've attached the 130 S and 120 S for you.
View attachment 124974 View attachment 124975

Thanks for the photos! I couldn't find the pricing of the Hawx Prime that you referenced.

I'm sure the 120 S would be the better boot option for me, but I'm not loving the royal blue color. Can the 130 S be made to flex like the 120 S? (Power Shift- you can alter the flex index +/- 10 points by adding or removing a screw).

FYI- a really skilled Master Bootfitter in NYC is Robert at Panda Sports in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn in case anyone in NYC is looking for one. Plus, it's a great shop with very personalized service.

 

[onenerdykid]

1) PA/PU/True Flex PU

Is their use going to change on 2022 line-up ?
In other words :
PA still only on 130 xtd ?
True Flex PU still not below 120 for Prime ?
Magna still all standard PU ?

2) Redster Club Sport Wide ?

A few brand have developed 100mm width versions of their on-slope / amateur competitors boots.
Is there any chance to see something similar in a neer future for Redster CS for example ?

Merci

1.) No changes to the plastics we use and where we use them from the 20/21 range.

2.) Would love to do this, but not happening as of yet.

 

[onenerdykid]

Thanks for the photos! I couldn't find the pricing of the Hawx Prime that you referenced.

I'm sure the 120 S would be the better boot option for me, but I'm not loving the royal blue color. Can the 130 S be made to flex like the 120 S? (Power Shift- you can alter the flex index +/- 10 points by adding or removing a screw).

FYI- a really skilled Master Bootfitter in NYC is Robert at Panda Sports in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn in case anyone in NYC is looking for one. Plus, it's a great shop with very personalized service.

I've been to Panda Sports a few years ago, they seem to know their stuff well!

The 130 S uses a stiffer shell material & cuff material than the 120 S. Taking the top screw out of the 130 will cause the flex pattern to feel a little softer "off the top" but it doesn't change how the lower shell behaves. Adding the top screw to the 120 will cause the flex pattern to feel a bit more responsive "off the top" but it won't make the lower shell stiffer if you were to need that. Basically, all rear screws achieve is changing the initial feel of the boot's flex pattern. The change is real and tangible, but ultimately adding screws does not make a boot that is too soft for you the proper stiffness and removing screws does not make a boot that is too stiff for you the proper stiffness.

 

[AlpedHuez]

@onenerdykid I am intrigued by the appearance of the internalised laces in the CS liner but I don't think I have the ability (dexterity) to re-lace in the factory setup if I were to try the laces over the tongue of the liner, and decide that I didn't like the fit or the feel.

(1) Are these laces included as an option to do up across the tongue of the liner?
(2) If I did lace up the liner over the tongue of the liner, outside the shell, would I be able to open up the shell myself to step in with the liner on, or does that require another pair of hands?
(3) Is there a sure-fire way for clumsy or unskilled hacks like me to return the laces to the internal factory setup if I tried and didn't like the feel of the lace up tongue?

Thank you as ever for fielding my many questions and curiosities about this amazing, special boot.

 

[MichaelG]

I've been to Panda Sports a few years ago, they seem to know their stuff well!

The 130 S uses a stiffer shell material & cuff material than the 120 S. Taking the top screw out of the 130 will cause the flex pattern to feel a little softer "off the top" but it doesn't change how the lower shell behaves. Adding the top screw to the 120 will cause the flex pattern to feel a bit more responsive "off the top" but it won't make the lower shell stiffer if you were to need that. Basically, all rear screws achieve is changing the initial feel of the boot's flex pattern. The change is real and tangible, but ultimately adding screws does not make a boot that is too soft for you the proper stiffness and removing screws does not make a boot that is too stiff for you the proper stiffness.

Yes, they seem to really know their stuff and they are one of the few remaining dedicated Ski Shops in NYC. I'm glad I discovered them.

Thanks for the explanation. It looks like I'll have to get the royal blue Hawx Magna 120 S since I'm definitely not an Expert and I do not want to make the mistake of getting boots that are too stiff for my ability! My ability leans more toward Intermediate/Advanced than Advanced/Expert. But I would say Advanced more than Intermediate.

BTW onenerdykid, can you post a photo of the 21/22 Hawx Prime 120 S?

 

[ScottB]

@onenerdykid I am intrigued by the appearance of the internalised laces in the CS liner but I don't think I have the ability (dexterity) to re-lace in the factory setup if I were to try the laces over the tongue of the liner, and decide that I didn't like the fit or the feel.

(1) Are these laces included as an option to do up across the tongue of the liner?
(2) If I did lace up the liner over the tongue of the liner, outside the shell, would I be able to open up the shell myself to step in with the liner on, or does that require another pair of hands?
(3) Is there a sure-fire way for clumsy or unskilled hacks like me to return the laces to the internal factory setup if I tried and didn't like the feel of the lace up tongue?

Thank you as ever for fielding my many questions and curiosities about this amazing, special boot.

I have tried the laces on my new Club Sport. They are normal laces that come in the box. I sense you may have something different than me, but I just put the laces through the loops and holes in the liner. I was able to put the liner on my foot and then insert into the boot, at room temp. It wasn't easy, but I am not skilled at it. I decided I didn't want to use the laces, so I tried taking them out with the liner in the boot. I finally pulled the liner out and that worked just fine and I unlaced the liner. The laces made the boot flex a little stiffer. The fit is so good for me it didn't improve that much with the laces. It is much easier to get in and out of the boot without the laces. Others may differ on that opinion, but again, I don't use lace up liners so don't know the tricks to make it work easily. I am sure ONK will

 

[AlpedHuez]

I have tried the laces on my new Club Sport. They are normal laces that come in the box. I sense you may have something different than me, but I just put the laces through the loops and holes in the liner. I was able to put the liner on my foot and then insert into the boot, at room temp. It wasn't easy, but I am not skilled at it. I decided I didn't want to use the laces, so I tried taking them out with the liner in the boot. I finally pulled the liner out and that worked just fine and I unlaced the liner. The laces made the boot flex a little stiffer. The fit is so good for me it didn't improve that much with the laces. It is much easier to get in and out of the boot without the laces. Others may differ on that opinion, but again, I don't use lace up liners so don't know the tricks to make it work easily. I am sure ONK will

This is what my liner with the laces installed internally (versus laced externally across tongue) from factory looks like.

 

[ScottB]

I may not be on the same page as you, but the 3 red loops are where you put the black shoe laces that come in the box, and then you continue and put them through the holes. The red things are not laces as far as I know, they are loops for "lacing" the liner lower than just the 3 holes up at the top. I would have to pull my liner out and look again, but I don't think there is any red lace on the inside surface of the liner to pull tight.

 

[ScottB]

OK, you got me curious and I pulled the liner out. Same as yours and the red loops are for threading your laces through, rather than holes like above on the tongue. You could not run laces inside the tongue, it just wouldn't work.

 

[AlpedHuez]

I may not be on the same page as you, but the 3 red loops are where you put the black shoe laces that come in the box, and then you continue and put them through the holes. The red things are not laces as far as I know, they are loops for "lacing" the liner lower than just the 3 holes up at the top. I would have to pull my liner out and look again, but I don't think there is any red lace on the inside surface of the liner to pull tight.

OK there aren’t any black shoelaces in my boot box. So therein we have identified the discrepancy.

EDIT: I have now found the actual black shoelaces hiding in the box under the accessories bag.

 

[AlpedHuez]

OK, you got me curious and I pulled the liner out. Same as yours and the red loops are for threading your laces through, rather than holes like above on the tongue. You could not run laces inside the tongue, it just wouldn't work.

Haha yeah I was never saying inside the tongue, but over. Was just trying to capture with words what I have now shown visually. The red laces looked like shoelaces to me. Now I suppose they aren’t and I don’t have black shoelaces in the box.

EDIT: OK, problem solved, I DO have black shoelaces in the box. They were just hiding under the other bag with the accessories.

 

[charlier]

Plug for a pair of boots I listed on SkiTalk. Atomic Hawx Ultra 130S with mimic liners, size 26.5, never ever used, cooked or even take out of shrink wrap. If interested go to https://www.SkiTalk.com/threads/atomic-hawx-ultra130-alpine-boot-26-5.21761/

 

[onenerdykid]

Yes, they seem to really know their stuff and they are one of the few remaining dedicated Ski Shops in NYC. I'm glad I discovered them.

Thanks for the explanation. It looks like I'll have to get the royal blue Hawx Magna 120 S since I'm definitely not an Expert and I do not want to make the mistake of getting boots that are too stiff for my ability! My ability leans more toward Intermediate/Advanced than Advanced/Expert. But I would say Advanced more than Intermediate.

BTW onenerdykid, can you post a photo of the 21/22 Hawx Prime 120 S?

Hey Michael, just one point you should be aware of- the right boot flex for you does not really relate to your ability level. The boot has no idea how good or bad you are at skiing; it only knows the physical forces being applied to it. Therefore, your weight, strength, and height matter more than your ability level. If you can properly flex the boot, then it is the right boot for you- regardless of the number written on the side of it. For some intermediates, this might mean 130 and for some experts this might mean 110. Just find the right thing for you and your subjective needs.

 

[onenerdykid]

Haha yeah I was never saying inside the tongue, but over. Was just trying to capture with words what I have now shown visually. The red laces looked like shoelaces to me. Now I suppose they aren’t and I don’t have black shoelaces in the box.

EDIT: OK, problem solved, I DO have black shoelaces in the box. They were just hiding under the other bag with the accessories.

Hey Alp, I hope things are making sense now - the liner should lace up just like any other lace-up liner. Laces will go over the tongue and this will allow you to step into the shell with the liner on your foot. You don't need to use them (I personally don't) but I know lots of people who only wear their liner with laces. Just run what works for you.