The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion

[AlpedHuez]

Hey Alp, I hope things are making sense now - the liner should lace up just like any other lace-up liner. Laces will go over the tongue and this will allow you to step into the shell with the liner on your foot. You don't need to use them (I personally don't) but I know lots of people who only wear their liner with laces. Just run what works for you.

Yes indeed, thanks Matt (my name is Chris btw ) I can't believe I missed the laces in the stashed-away box (and thought the red threads on the upper liner was the laces -- good thing I didn't try to pull them out) before I created a whole silly diversion about the liner laces in your most informative and helpful thread.

 

[MichaelG]

Hey Michael, just one point you should be aware of- the right boot flex for you does not really relate to your ability level. The boot has no idea how good or bad you are at skiing; it only knows the physical forces being applied to it. Therefore, your weight, strength, and height matter more than your ability level. If you can properly flex the boot, then it is the right boot for you- regardless of the number written on the side of it. For some intermediates, this might mean 130 and for some experts this might mean 110. Just find the right thing for you and your subjective needs.

Hey Matt, thanks for all this very helpful information! I was starting to think that might be the case. If so, then I could potentially be good with the Hawx Magna 110 S and I'm sure Robert at Panda Sports will help me make the right choice. That being said, can I ask for one last photo? Can you please post the Hawx Magna 110 S?

I was thinking how I could make the Hawx Magna 120 S more visually pleasing if I were to get those boots. I'm a graphic designer so I could mask and spray the logo white if needed : )

Also, can the Professional Dual Strap be put on any boot? Thanks.

 

[onenerdykid]

Don't judge a boot too hard by it's 3D render- the blue plastic with red anodized buckle base plates looks really good in person. And definitely don't get fixated on a boot because of its color. Having a boot that doesn't meet your biomechanical needs but looks good is a far worse scenario to be in vs. having the right boot for you but the color isn't ideal.

Professional Dual Straps can fit on any men's Redster or Hawx boot.

 

[Tom K.]

And definitely don't get fixated on a boot because of its color. Having a boot that doesn't meet your biomechanical needs but looks good is a far worse scenario to be in vs. having the right boot for you but the color isn't ideal.

So then I guess it was OK that I bought this boot ages ago because it fit like the proverbial glove?!

 

[MichaelG]

Don't judge a boot too hard by it's 3D render- the blue plastic with red anodized buckle base plates looks really good in person. And definitely don't get fixated on a boot because of its color. Having a boot that doesn't meet your biomechanical needs but looks good is a far worse scenario to be in vs. having the right boot for you but the color isn't ideal.

Professional Dual Straps can fit on any men's Redster or Hawx boot.

Thanks again Matt. Yes, I was speaking with a friend last night and realized that the color of a ski boot really shouldn't matter. Making sure you get the right boot for you is most important.

Well glad to know that the blue & red boot looks better in person. I didn't realize those are 3D renders as they look like photographs. Can't wait until the 21/22 boots are available and excited to see how the Mimic Platinum liner feels like coming from Head boots that I purchased in 2005—although they served me well.

 

[Vinnie]

Hey Matt, Last year I was on Ultra Hawx 115 S (small guy and my shell fit is a 24.5 mondo). On groomers I really liked the progressive flex and the rebound I got out of each turn. However when I got off-piste the boot was so reactive that I felt like I was getting catapulted from one turn to another. I am looking for a damper ride. Wondering if I am overdriving the boot and if I found a men's Hawx 120 or 130 it would have a damper feel. Then again maybe I have it backwards and a stiffer boot would be even more reactive.

 

[onenerdykid]

Hey Matt, Last year I was on Ultra Hawx 115 S (small guy and my shell fit is a 24.5 mondo). On groomers I really liked the progressive flex and the rebound I got out of each turn. However when I got off-piste the boot was so reactive that I felt like I was getting catapulted from one turn to another. I am looking for a damper ride. Wondering if I am overdriving the boot and if I found a men's Hawx 120 or 130 it would have a damper feel. Then again maybe I have it backwards and a stiffer boot would be even more reactive.

If you want damper with more suspension, then you should go with something like the Redster Club Sport 110. You won't be disappointed.

 

[MontanaMom]

Hello!! Very new here and looking for some help! I'm looking at the Atomic Tracker 110 boots (women's) and I'm wondering how to guess at how they'll fit, or maybe you can recommend a boot.



I wear 23.5 boots, the pair I have starts off super comfortable, but by the time I do a few runs it is very loose in the heel and I can't get them any tighter but they're still sloppy enough my heel comes up before grabbing the boots and there is slop side to side. So by the end of three days of skiing the back side my knees were unhappy.



So I'm looking for something that will lock my heel in better and also be something I can grow in ability in. I mostly hover around my kids skiing the front mountain but I love to ski blacks on the back side and they can ski the back now too depending on condition and speed. I'd say I'm intermediate but take a couple lessons a year so hoping to improve. Any tips welcome, this will be my first new boot purchase now that I've skied enough to know I will do it long term. (budget does matter, so looking for end of season sales)

 

[onenerdykid]

Hello!! Very new here and looking for some help! I'm looking at the Atomic Tracker 110 boots (women's) and I'm wondering how to guess at how they'll fit, or maybe you can recommend a boot.



I wear 23.5 boots, the pair I have starts off super comfortable, but by the time I do a few runs it is very loose in the heel and I can't get them any tighter but they're still sloppy enough my heel comes up before grabbing the boots and there is slop side to side. So by the end of three days of skiing the back side my knees were unhappy.



So I'm looking for something that will lock my heel in better and also be something I can grow in ability in. I mostly hover around my kids skiing the front mountain but I love to ski blacks on the back side and they can ski the back now too depending on condition and speed. I'd say I'm intermediate but take a couple lessons a year so hoping to improve. Any tips welcome, this will be my first new boot purchase now that I've skied enough to know I will do it long term. (budget does matter, so looking for end of season sales)

Hi MM - Let's cover some basics first. Your ski boot is the most important part of your equipment. Getting the wrong boot will ruin your ski day, so it is important to invest some time and money to do it right. When you get the right boot for you, it will be fit to you- not so much your skiing level, which means it will be with you for a number of years. Do not rush this, do not buy a boot online.

First, and as much as this is an Atomic thread & I would love for you to own an Atomic boot, you want to research boot-fitters in your area (or where you will be skiing) not ski boots. You 100% need to have someone assess your feet, your flexibility, and other biomechanic-factors who will then find the correct matching ski boot to all of those variables. This is the job of a boot-fitter, which is different from someone who sells ski boots. The latter will not invest the right amount of time with you and your comfort & enjoyment will suffer because of it. So, ask Google, ask your skiing friends who in your area is really good at boot-fitting.

Second, you should also budget money for something called a footbed. This is always an aftermarket purchase but it is one of those things that if you do not get, then your chances of being uncomfortable in your boot goes really, really high. Your foot has evolved for walking, not for being inside a plastic cast that is strapped to giant lever arm called a ski. Footbeds create the proper interface between your flexible foot and the rigid ski boot to help keep your foot from moving around while skiing. This increases your comfort, warmth, balance, and general skiing performance. You really owe it to yourself to not skip this important step, no matter what boot you end up with.

Lastly, no one has your foot but you. This means don't listen to what worked for your friends or other skiers on the internet. Someone could rave about Boot-X and how it has saved their skiing but it might be the absolute worst thing for you. This is because your foot is your foot and you need to find the right solution for you.

If you don't follow those steps, your chances of being comfortable and enjoying your time skiing will greatly diminish. If you can find a boot on sale, fantastic. But, don't buy based on price first and foremost. Doing that will only make you buy a second boot later on and you will end up spending more money than you need to.

 

[Tom K.]

Lastly, no one has your foot but you.

So true. @MontanaMom, when I try on boots, there will typically be a few that make me think "that's not bad" then there will be one that makes me think "now THAT is my foot!". Don't settle for almost.

 

[MontanaMom]

Thank you for the tips!! I will start asking around. We have a local hill, but the places in town here are not "boot fitters". We have places like Capital Sports, Bob Wards, and then "play it again" sells new and used. That's our options locally. I will see what two other local-ish ski towns have for options. Bozeman might have something. This is Montana, the next big town is always over an hour and a half away. So if you're talking about having to go back for tweaks, that's a bigger deal. Especially when winter can turn 1.5 hours of driving into 3 each way lol.

I'm not trying to choose based just on price, but it has to be a factor. I'm a single mom with two kids and zero help from their other side. So in order to do everything we do, I have to be frugal about things. My skis and boots came from Craigslist for a whopping 80 bucks total. I started skiing 3 years ago because my 2 and 4 year old started skiing and suddenly were ready to go on the mountain after one session of their "snow buddies" program and needed someone to go with them. Now we buy season passes and I rent for them. Price has to be a factor if I'm going to upgrade, and I feel like my current boots are no longer cutting it.

One of the local places said bring them in and he might be able to add some stuff to make it lock my heel in better. I haven't tried that, I figured getting into a new pair with the end of season sales would be smarter than trying to wiggle through another season or two. This particular shop also doesn't have any 23.5s for me to even try on in a woman's boot. It's a kids size around here.

 

[cantunamunch]

@onenerdykid can you speak to the directionality of flex?

Is there such a thing as an off-axis testing robot? You mentioned the on-axis robot in a different thread:

@Bruno Schull - I'll put you in contact with a good boot-fitter in Switzerland (just waiting to hear back from him about his availability, stay tuned).

This is the same Matt from the Blister podcasts and really happy to hear you enjoyed them (and even happier to hear that you are enjoying your new boots!). When Jonathan and I talked about flex and all the things associated with it, at one point we talked about the flex testing robot that Atomic commissioned a few years ago. This robot flex tests any boot we hook it up to and maps out how much force/torque (in Nm) it takes to flex the boot to certain degrees, both fore and aft.
View attachment 125687

Pictured above is the new Hawx Ultra 130 S but we do this to all of our boots and all of the relevant competitors too. And when you run the test, you can see the flex curve of the boot. Here is a Hawx Prime 130 S vs. a very well known 100mm 130 competitor:
View attachment 125688
Nm value on the Y-axis and angle on the X-axis (0° is the boot's natural forward lean position)

This is what progressive flex curves usually look like. And to be honest, even the "linear" boots still have some progression to them, they just don't ramp up as much as the boots shown above. It's probably impossible to have a truly linear flex pattern that does not deviate start to finish.

Now, is there any such thing as a graph of on-axis vs. off-axis flex?

This is very specifically related to large skiers feeling their cuffs (not necessarily Atomic, ofc) can bend over in any direction they like without much 'feel' difference in the boot.

 

[AmyPJ]

Thank you for the tips!! I will start asking around. We have a local hill, but the places in town here are not "boot fitters". We have places like Capital Sports, Bob Wards, and then "play it again" sells new and used. That's our options locally. I will see what two other local-ish ski towns have for options. Bozeman might have something. This is Montana, the next big town is always over an hour and a half away. So if you're talking about having to go back for tweaks, that's a bigger deal. Especially when winter can turn 1.5 hours of driving into 3 each way lol.

I'm not trying to choose based just on price, but it has to be a factor. I'm a single mom with two kids and zero help from their other side. So in order to do everything we do, I have to be frugal about things. My skis and boots came from Craigslist for a whopping 80 bucks total. I started skiing 3 years ago because my 2 and 4 year old started skiing and suddenly were ready to go on the mountain after one session of their "snow buddies" program and needed someone to go with them. Now we buy season passes and I rent for them. Price has to be a factor if I'm going to upgrade, and I feel like my current boots are no longer cutting it.

One of the local places said bring them in and he might be able to add some stuff to make it lock my heel in better. I haven't tried that, I figured getting into a new pair with the end of season sales would be smarter than trying to wiggle through another season or two. This particular shop also doesn't have any 23.5s for me to even try on in a woman's boot. It's a kids size around here.

You might try Roundhouse Sports in Bozeman. Maybe @BS Slarver knows of a good fitter in the Bozeman area. I was in Roundhouse last month purchasing some skis and they had a very impressive ski and boot selection and the boot shop was set up very well. (Their ski selection blew me away, actually.)

 

[Tom K.]

You might try Roundhouse Sports in Bozeman.

Another vote for these guys. Been a class act since the 70s, at least!

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid can you speak to the directionality of flex?

Is there such a thing as an off-axis testing robot? You mentioned the on-axis robot in a different thread:

Now, is there any such thing as a graph of on-axis vs. off-axis flex?

This is very specifically related to large skiers feeling their cuffs (not necessarily Atomic, ofc) can bend over in any direction they like without much 'feel' difference in the boot.

This sort of thing won't really register on our robot, so we leave it to the human Guinea pigs to figure out. A cuff (and shell for that matter) will often go through about 5-6 wall thickness modifications before it is "green lighted". We ski prototype v1 and feel out where it needs more thickness (or thinness) and make step by step changes until it arrives at the feel we are looking for.

 

[sparty]

You might try Roundhouse Sports in Bozeman. Maybe @BS Slarver knows of a good fitter in the Bozeman area. I was in Roundhouse last month purchasing some skis and they had a very impressive ski and boot selection and the boot shop was set up very well. (Their ski selection blew me away, actually.)

I'm assuming that going further east is going to be even more of a PITA, but Ski Boot RX in Billings is also a really good option if travel time is workable. The owner is a great guy, knows his stuff, and is perfectly willing to talk someone out of a purchase if that's the right move for the customer.

 

[MontanaMom]

I ended up going to Great Falls to Skiers Edge Ski and Board shop. They were amazing!!! He shell fit me, measured me thoroughly, etc.

So I'm between a 22.5 and a 23.5. he said if I were advanced/expert he'd say I for sure need the 22.5 but the 23.5 is definitely roomy.

He recommended the Atomic Hawk Ultra 95, but doesn't have either size in stock and is going to call his supplier tomorrow.

Any thoughts on this boots?

 

[onenerdykid]

The Hawx Ultra is our narrow-fitting, all-mountain boot that uses really nice polyurethane (PU) plastics and is one of the most customizable ski boots on the market. The 95 is our mid-flex option that is one of the better values in the range in terms of features for the price.

 

[MontanaMom]

Well, I ordered them from him, so we'll see how this goes.


How long do you expect ski boots to last before you buy new ones?

 

[coskigirl]

Well, I ordered them from him, so we'll see how this goes.


How long do you expect ski boots to last before you buy new ones?

I usually go around 100 days on a pair of boots. For some people this can be extended by replacing the liner at that point.