The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion

[ScottB]

Did you buy atomic boots and they gave you the tool? I asked about the tool and they only mentioned you need special tool.

Yes, I bought atomic boots from them, but they didn't give me the tool till my second trip. I guess you have to ask

 

[fatbob]

But, if you were to look at a pair of boots that have 200 days of skiing on them, they usually look like they want to be replaced. Things are usually pretty beat up by then.

Seems like a bit of an "industry" answer.

Yep it's definitely in your interests to encourage boot replacement at 200 days and for the "holiday" skier it scarcely matters because they'll be distracted by new and shiny before 200 days wear over 20+ years. But you must have data on actual plastics wear and tear/degradation. I'd be disappointed in any boot manufacturer that didn't produce shells fit for 300 days/3 liners with a bit of user maintanance on buckles and wear pads etc.

 

[onenerdykid]

Seems like a bit of an "industry" answer.

Yep it's definitely in your interests to encourage boot replacement at 200 days and for the "holiday" skier it scarcely matters because they'll be distracted by new and shiny before 200 days wear over 20+ years. But you must have data on actual plastics wear and tear/degradation. I'd be disappointed in any boot manufacturer that didn't produce shells fit for 300 days/3 liners with a bit of user maintanance on buckles and wear pads etc.

This is my experience as a boot-fitter and what I've seen people do to their boots, not as a manufacturer. And to be clear- I am not recommending that once people hit the 200 day mark that they toss their boots and go buy new ones. It's just a rough average that people should use a gauge. For sure people can go longer, especially if they are easier on their gear. There's definitely a difference between how my mom skis (not necessarily a "mom joke" but it works either way here) and how I ski. She could get way more than 200 ski days out of a boot. For me, my boot is pretty ragged by then. Sure I could replace all of the buckles, grip pads, liners, and power straps and get more life out of the shells. But after doing that I'm about 80% of the cost into a new boot at that point, possibly even more expensive than a new boot in some cases. To be honest, I think most people just weigh the pros and cons of getting a new boot at that point.

In general, lighter weight touring gear will probably be replaced a little quicker due to simply being a lighter, more fragile boot. Whereas, heavy PU boots can go much longer. It really depends on what type of boot we are talking about and how abusive vs. caring someone is with their gear. But, if you lined up 1,000 different skiers and looked at their boots after 200 days, some would look very new and could go on for much, much longer while some would look absolutely thrashed and in need of immediate replacement. I would argue that "200 days" is a realistic average ski boot lifespan where you can certainly extend it the more you properly take care of your gear.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

@onenerdykid @Philpug and anyone else who has comments, questions or suggestions:

I have a narrow heel. I skied in the Lange L10 Race for years in the narrow 97mm last. I liked its stiffness. I liked the ski tip pressure it created. But the toe box was way too narrow for my toes.

Last year I bought the Lange RS130 narrow 97mm last. As far as stiffness, the RS130 is a slipper compared to the L10 Race. So, I miss the stiffness somewhat. But I love, love, love the wider toe box on the RS130.

But what I really don't like about the RS130 is its more upright stance.
I want more forward lean.
But really, what I am seeking is more ski tip pressure.

Do you know what the forward lean was on the L10 Race?

Can the adjustable lean on the REDSTER TEAM ISSUE 130 adjust to the same forward lean of the L10 Race?

Better yet, does more forward lean actually result in more ski tip pressure?

What do you suggest?

My boot size is 29.5. Boot Sole Length is 336mm.

I am 5’ 11”, weigh 195-200 lbs. and my pant inseam is 32”

Will REDSTER TEAM ISSUE 130 be too wide in the 29.5 size?


Edit: Last night, Tom Gellie posted up a "Ski Boot Setup Basics - Webinar" on his BigPictureSkiing.com
Which I am listening to now.

I may play around with putting a "gas pedal" under the toes to see if it increases ski tip pressure.

I am, however, still very interested in Atomic boots, since Pat and Dixon at Powderhouse Pro Shop in So. Lake Tahoe tried it on me about five years ago and thought it might be a good alternative to my Lange L10 Race.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
Tim Hodgson

 

[fatbob]

But, if you lined up 1,000 different skiers and looked at their boots after 200 days, some would look very new and could go on for much, much longer while some would look absolutely thrashed and in need of immediate replacement. I would argue that "200 days" is a realistic average ski boot lifespan where you can certainly extend it the more you properly take care of your gear.

Oh I've definitely in the look absolutely thrashed camp. It's just at 200 days a shell doesn't "feel" significantly different to me (and I have a lot going through them) - even if it has clips that are on the edge of falling off and fugly ski nicks in the clog etc.

My problem is not cost to change but "emotional investment to change" i.e once I have a shell that is fitted to me and aware of all the snagging issues and process around getting another boot fit I want to minimise the number of times I need to change.

Appreciate your insight - I'm not trying to pick a fight just interested in what the data says about shell wear - As I said I suspect the vast majority of consumers trade up before they "need" to, often when the first liner is done.

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid @Philpug and anyone else who has comments, questions or suggestions:

I have a narrow heel. I skied in the Lange L10 Race for years in the narrow 97mm last. I liked its stiffness. I liked the ski tip pressure it created. But the toe box was way too narrow for my toes.

Last year I bought the Lange RS130 narrow 97mm last. As far as stiffness, the RS130 is a slipper compared to the L10 Race. So, I miss the stiffness somewhat. But I love, love, love the wider toe box on the RS130.

But what I really don't like about the RS130 is its more upright stance.
I want more forward lean.
But really, what I am seeking is more ski tip pressure.

Do you know what the forward lean was on the L10 Race?

Can the adjustable lean on the REDSTER TEAM ISSUE 130 adjust to the same forward lean of the L10 Race?

Better yet, does more forward lean actually result in more ski tip pressure?

What do you suggest?

My boot size is 29.5. Boot Sole Length is 336mm.

I am 5’ 11”, weigh 195-200 lbs. and my pant inseam is 32”

Will REDSTER TEAM ISSUE 130 be too wide in the 29.5 size?

Hi Tim, you are definitely not the first person to not like the 12° forward lean on Lange's commercial boots. The geometry of your old L10s is more in-line with our Redster family of boots for sure. Given what you said above, I would think that you would be happier in a Club Sport (CS) 130, rather than a Team Issue (TI) 130. Both boots will deliver the power and control you want to have, the CS version will just take less grunting and boot work to be comfortable. In my opinion, the CS 130 is a little lower volume than the RS 130 so it won't be too wide in your size.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

@onenerdykid Thank you. I will contact Powderhouse Pro Shop and see if they have a CS 130 in my size.

I am very happy that I found this thread. I wish more manufacturers would use SkiTalk to refine and target their message to individual consumers. We are not all alike. Reading what you say to others who are not like me and what you say to those who are more like me, helps me zero in on product which I may want to try. To receive a personal response from a manufacturer like you is simply great communication which makes for great customer service.

Have a Blessed Day.

 

[sparty]

... 200 ski days out of a boot. For me, my boot is pretty ragged by then. Sure I could replace all of the buckles, grip pads, liners, and power straps and get more life out of the shells. But after doing that I'm about 80% of the cost into a new boot at that point, possibly even more expensive than a new boot in some cases. To be honest, I think most people just weigh the pros and cons of getting a new boot at that point.

FWIW, this matches damn near exactly my experience with the last pair of boots that I thrashed. I managed to get about 300 days out of them, but they were pretty haggard for the last bit of that. The shells were probably usable—I suspect they'd lost some stiffness over time, but without doing an A/B test against a new pair, I couldn't be sure—but a couple of the buckles were no longer functioning at 100%, I had just about worn through the second set of toe/heel wear pads, and both liners had multiple wear spots where seams were failing or had failed. I probably could have gotten a new pair of liners and new toe/heel wear pads, but by the time I did that, I'd have been at least 80% of the way to the cost of a new pair of boots, plus I'd have needed to deal with trying to special-order replacement parts, which has (in my experience) often been a frustrating deal. It's far harder than it ought to be to get replacement parts as an end user for most ski equipment. The only exception I can think of is Black Diamond, where at least the ski poles are easy to find spare parts for.

 

[onenerdykid]

FWIW, this matches damn near exactly my experience with the last pair of boots that I thrashed. I managed to get about 300 days out of them, but they were pretty haggard for the last bit of that. The shells were probably usable—I suspect they'd lost some stiffness over time, but without doing an A/B test against a new pair, I couldn't be sure—but a couple of the buckles were no longer functioning at 100%, I had just about worn through the second set of toe/heel wear pads, and both liners had multiple wear spots where seams were failing or had failed. I probably could have gotten a new pair of liners and new toe/heel wear pads, but by the time I did that, I'd have been at least 80% of the way to the cost of a new pair of boots, plus I'd have needed to deal with trying to special-order replacement parts, which has (in my experience) often been a frustrating deal. It's far harder than it ought to be to get replacement parts as an end user for most ski equipment. The only exception I can think of is Black Diamond, where at least the ski poles are easy to find spare parts for.

On the spare part front, we are definitely working to make this easier. You'd think it would be an easy thing to do, but it has its own set of unique challenges. But we do understand this and are making efforts to allow our spare parts to be more accessible.

 

[Tony Storaro]

First thought: I have been swindled. Somebody snitched my boots and replaced them with replicas. These cant be real, I know how real boots feel like in the hand. They should be heavy. These are....lightweight...

Second thought: Hey, I can ski these right out of the box, no pressure points no nothing. I only need a bit of room at the toes, otherwise, they feel....well yeah, perfect!

Now onwards to the dreaded heat molding and other adjustments and we'll see.

 

[Evan's Dad]

I thought the same when I handled them. Not gonna lie, I am a little skeptical of their durability. I hope I get as many days on them as I did my Dobermann Pros.

 

[KingGrump]

View attachment 129156


First thought: I have been swindled. Somebody snitched my boots and replaced them with replicas. These cant be real, I know how real boots feel like in the hand. They should be heavy. These are....lightweight...

Second thought: Hey, I can ski these right out of the box, no pressure points no nothing. I only need a bit of room at the toes, otherwise, they feel....well yeah, perfect!

Now onwards to the dreaded heat molding and other adjustments and we'll see.

The Atomic Ultra and XTD has been favorite among my friends.
Heat molding generally make the room in the boot. So double check the fit of the boot before molding.
The Atomic heat molding process is fairly benign compare to the Fischer process.
Also check binding compatibility for GW.

 

[Tony Storaro]

The Atomic Ultra and XTD has been favorite among my friends.
Heat molding generally make the room in the boot. So double check the fit of the boot before molding.
The Atomic heat molding process is fairly benign compare to the Fischer process.
Also check binding compatibility for GW.

Thanks!
I plan to use them with Shifts so no problems with GW compatibility. Even if I decide to use them for lift skiing, I have Warden 13 on the AX and SRs, which are MNC. Not sure if I will want to drive anything stiffer than that in them, but who knows...

 

[Tony Storaro]

I thought the same when I handled them. Not gonna lie, I am a little skeptical of their durability. I hope I get as many days on them as I did my Dobermann Pros.

At this point I think I will be spending much more time in them going up than going down, so their lightweight and perceived fragility do not bother me very much. Time will tell if they are good for one boot quiver.

 

[Noodler]

At this point I think I will be spending much more time in them going up than going down, so their lightweight and perceived fragility do not bother me very much. Time will tell if they are good for one boot quiver.

Save weight as much as possible. As much as you're willing to live with. I'm finding that I want to get my setup just at the point where the gear has sufficient weight to provide the performance and reliability I desire for the down, but absolutely no more. I know from my current uphill setup that there's room for me to reduce weight further without sacrificing too much on the down. It's a work in progress...

 

[sparty]

Thanks!
I plan to use them with Shifts so no problems with GW compatibility. Even if I decide to use them for lift skiing, I have Warden 13 on the AX and SRs, which are MNC. Not sure if I will want to drive anything stiffer than that in them, but who knows...

The stiffest ski I've been on with mine is the softest G9 (metal tip protectors and GripWalk-compatible bindings, not the cheater GS ski or the FIS ski which both require traditional DIN soles), which felt to be about the limit of effective use of the XTD; I could turn them, but I could feel the boot giving in at times.

I wish the race bindings worked with the XTD so I could try (I feel like the slaloms would be manageable and the GS skis would require giving up on real GS turns and just feathering them around), but there's no question in my mind that trying to drive a full bore race ski with any AT boot is a significant compromise at best, and I get why true number of people who want to be able to try doesn't justify trying to engineer that if it would potentially compromise race boot performance.

 

[richddt]

Can I use the mimic xtd liner in an older ultra boots? I feel the normal ultra is still stiffer and better for icy east coast, but I love the new liner

 

[ScottB]

Can I use the mimic xtd liner in an older ultra boots? I feel the normal ultra is still stiffer and better for icy east coast, but I love the new liner

There is a mimic liner for the non-xtd ultra that would be a better choice.

 

[richddt]

There is a mimic liner for the non-xtd ultra that would be a better choice.

If they are not the same, with exception of the cut out in the heel it save me from hunting down the liners, and get them heated in a shop, around $300

 

[ScottB]

I am not clear on the context of your post (do you have an XTD mimic liner and want to use it in an Ultra boot?), but I bought a set of mimic liners this year to put in my XTD's and I love them. The XTD mimic and the non-XTD (just ultra) mimic liner are the same except the XTD has a flex zone above the heel in the back and the std does not. They would fit and work the same except the std would not be as flexible in the XTD boot. Hope that helps. You can go online to the Atomic website and I think go to ski boots and then spare parts and you can see a pic of each.