The Curse of American Ski Reviews

[jmeb]

Ironically -- in one of the most popular groomer videos of the past several years -- the main dude is on a 100mm all-mountain ski for almost the entire video.

 

[fatbob]

I don't think it would happen - not enough pisteurs to do all the bomb routes etc. And who would really benefit to the extent it would make extra money? Existing off piste skiers are just fine, newbies and the timid who aren't prepared to spring for a guide but would want a free ride on everyone else paying a premium?

 

[Andy Mink]

Ironically -- in one of the most popular groomer videos of the past several years -- the main dude is on a 100mm all-mountain ski for almost the entire video.

Honestly, Marcus could run some 2x4s (or 2x6s if he wanted to go wide) and come up with similar results.

 

[cantunamunch]

I don't think it would happen - not enough pisteurs to do all the bomb routes etc. And who would really benefit to the extent it would make extra money? Existing off piste skiers are just fine, newbies and the timid who aren't prepared to spring for a guide but would want a free ride on everyone else paying a premium?

Yeh, kinda matches my thinking.

There would have to be a ground-up marketing campaign to sell it to newbies and never-evers, and it wouldn't pay until an entire generation came to expect such things.

 

[Cheizz]

If the lack of avalanche-controlling in the current situation keeps the ticket prices down (compared to the US), please, leave it as it is today...

 

[James]

The idea that experienced off piste skiers are quaking in fear to step outside a marker in Europe would be…

It’s a good model. Everyone should stay away to be safe. Six inches off piste is uncontrolled!! The horror.

 

[Swiss Toni]

DSV skiTEST 2022/2023 - DSV aktiv

Großer DSV skiTEST der Saison 2021/2022 mit knapp 100 Modellen. Einziger Test nach internationaler Din-Norm. Jetzt Ihren Traumski finden!

www.ski-online.de

DSV aktiv is an associate member of the Deutsche Skiverband (German Ski Association), it is a very large organization with around 300,000 members. Every year they run a ski test based on ISO 8783:2015 Alpine skis — Guidelines for conducting slope performance tests, they test around 100 pairs over the course of a week. The methodology is explained (in German) on their website https://www.ski-online.de/tipps-infos/dsv-skitest.html they have also produced a video (with English subtitles) showing the procedure.



Ski resorts in Europe don’t have boundaries so it would be a physically impossibility to make all the terrain that can be accessed from the lifts safe from avalanches. Many European ski insurance policies exclude skiing ‘off piste’ without a guide, so most Europeans on skiing vacations who have traveled from outside the alpine regions don’t ski ‘off piste’.

Around 65% of all the skis sold in Europe go into rental pools, most tourists rent, they can rent whatever type of ski the feel is most appropriate to the prevailing conditions. Renting for the season is increasing popular with the locals, you can rent a brand-new pair of Stöckli skis for 60% of the RRP, insurance against theft and breakage is include and you can swap them for a different pair at any time. Ski sales to end users in Europe is an increasingly outdated model.

 

[BC.]

Ironically -- in one of the most popular groomer videos of the past several years -- the main dude is on a 100mm all-mountain ski for almost the entire video.

Yes...love it…I’m just waiting for the crew on here to say he’s not really “carving”.

 

[locknload]

It's been covered many, many times here. Controlling for all terrain within the bounds of a "ski area" taking the most extreme pistes as those bounds would be a logistic and physical impossility. We're talking geographic areas far bigger than Vail or WB or wherever. That's not to say no control work is done (the European ski industry invented Gasex for example) but it should never be an assumption.

There are some limited "freeride zones" in a few places and controlled itineraries (which effectively amount to unpisted pistes) in more.

The idea that experienced off piste skiers are quaking in fear to step outside a marker in Europe would be laughable, but equally everyone understands the need to keep an element of "there be dragons" to the warning to stop the yahoos who will create danger for all not least themselves. I'd still be cautious at dropping into a high angle slope in the US but in Europe I'll definitely be looking for reasons to not not go i.e. my presumption would be of danger.

It would be a really interesting experiment if overnight some areas did turn full US model. I suspect it would not greatly change the behaviour of their existing clientele i.e. piste skiers would still be piste skiers but might draw in a few new customers who appreciate the risk mitigation package. of course some local off piste fiends might go elsewhere now "everyone" was shralping their pow as a result.

Having skied at Cham, Kitzbuhl, St. Anton, Zermatt and others...I can attest that the requirement that you buy "rescue insurance" in France for instance, is a sobering. They make clear that if you require an off-piste rescue (which happens daily in Cham) you are going to pay the freight to get you out. You can opt out, but then, you might manage your ski day differently so as not to get stuck with the bill. One guy on one of our trips tore up a knee off-piste and thankfully did pay for the insurance. He got a helicopter ride out and had a small bill to pay for his trouble. This is a big distinction from skiing in the US.

 

[fatbob]

You are going to pay for rescue whether your accident happens on or off piste. And some places would rather call a heli even for relatively straightforward fractures than sled you especially in Austria. Keeps lift tix prices down though.

 

[James]

Yes...love it…I’m just waiting for the crew on here to say he’s not really “carving”.

It’s spring, the snow is very soft but not a corn sea. If he was getting that much angle on narrow skis, he’d boot mush.

He doesn’t carve a whole lot on the straight ski Thermos iirc.

 

[Cheizz]

Having skied at Cham, Kitzbuhl, St. Anton, Zermatt and others...I can attest that the requirement that you buy "rescue insurance" in France for instance, is a sobering. They make clear that if you require an off-piste rescue (which happens daily in Cham) you are going to pay the freight to get you out. You can opt out, but then, you might manage your ski day differently so as not to get stuck with the bill. One guy on one of our trips tore up a knee off-piste and thankfully did pay for the insurance. He got a helicopter ride out and had a small bill to pay for his trouble. This is a big distinction from skiing in the US.

This is different in each country though. Europe may be a union in some ways; in this respect it's every country for itself.

 

[AlexisLD]

Remember that most skiers ski a narrow-ish ski as a daily driver on-piste. 88 mm max. A wider ski has very limited use cases that add value to that daily driver. Let's say 20% of the time you can actually use them (if you ski them in appropriate conditions), only 10% of the time you really NEED them. If that's your perspective, you don't need to put too much thought and energy into demoing and selecting that wider ski. The daily driver is a different story.

I think it just depends on what you are looking for. I try to seek soft snow or explore the backcountry, and thus I ski 100 mm daily. Most of the time 100 mm wide skis are OK on soft groomers. I have carving skis, but I use them less than 10% of the time.

Many people on the east coast are going with very large skis to float better on the little snow we have here. That way you feel less of the ice underneath. We often have 5-10cm of very light snow on top of ice.

Many people in America will also spend a significant amount of time outside the main groomed runs. On the east coast, you have a lot of tight trees and that creates moguls. A piste ski is often not playful enough for that kind of terrain and will be hard to ski for a beginner because the tip/tail will be catching everywhere. "Fun" shapes can be much more fun in these conditions.

 

[jmeb]

"Fun" shapes can be much more fun in these conditions.

Fully agree. Unfortunately, the options for "fun" shapes (tapered tip/tail, semi-twin, progressive mount) in ~80-90mm widths are pretty limited. Especially if you're looking for something with some metal/stiffness (e.g. not a soft park ski or a ski designed for intermediates).

But there are a lot of skiers who would be -- IMO -- well served by them. Fun in bumps/trees/natural features, skinny enough for making groomers exciting, good edge grip. Wide enough to give a nice platform for off-piste adventures. @GregK 's Faction 1.0s are a rare example.

 

[AlexisLD]

Fully agree. Unfortunately, the options for "fun" shapes (tapered tip/tail, semi-twin, progressive mount) in ~80-90mm widths are pretty limited. Especially if you're looking for something with some metal/stiffness (e.g. not a soft park ski or a ski designed for intermediates).

Maybe we should start a brand!?

Well, you seem to know very well what you are looking for. I put these criteria in the SoothSki comparator.

I didn't really know what to put for tip taper length, so I just added that column for the remaining skis, shorted the list and pick a number somewhere in the middle. You can play with it to fit what you are looking for. With these criteria, I got a short list of 21 skis (out of 3000) and shorted them by bending stiffness.

Got some stuff in there I was expecting, like JSkis (the master of east coast fun shape?), Line (the original east coast fun shape? but careful of the soft models at the bottom of the list), Faction, Ferreol (Quebec-based company for out-of-bound skiing), Armada (I keep finding that they have a surprising diversity of models), etc.

I didn't use the mount point as a search criterion, but you could. You could also mount them not on the recommended line with varying results. You could also look at torsional stiffness and weight as a way to figure out if the skis have metal in them (or will give you similar on-snow results as skis having metal).

But yeah, the list is short!

 

[tomahawkins]

DSV aktiv is an associate member of the Deutsche Skiverband (German Ski Association), it is a very large organization with around 300,000 members. Every year they run a ski test based on ISO 8783:2015 Alpine skis — Guidelines for conducting slope performance tests, they test around 100 pairs over the course of a week. The methodology is explained (in German) on their website https://www.ski-online.de/tipps-infos/dsv-skitest.html they have also produced a video (with English subtitles) showing the procedure.



Ski resorts in Europe don’t have boundaries so it would be a physically impossibility to make all the terrain that can be accessed from the lifts safe from avalanches. Many European ski insurance policies exclude skiing ‘off piste’ without a guide, so most Europeans on skiing vacations who have traveled from outside the alpine regions don’t ski ‘off piste’.

Around 65% of all the skis sold in Europe go into rental pools, most tourists rent, they can rent whatever type of ski the feel is most appropriate to the prevailing conditions. Renting for the season is increasing popular with the locals, you can rent a brand-new pair of Stöckli skis for 60% of the RRP, insurance against theft and breakage is include and you can swap them for a different pair at any time. Ski sales to end users in Europe is an increasingly outdated model.

That duct tape probably improves the damping quality all around. I'm going to add that to my skis. And I thought duct tape was just used for Fischers...

 

[tromano]

What is IMHO the bigger problem right now is not the standard type of review that basically says nothing, it is the "influencers" which there are two kinds. First are the self validating ones that are basically saying that since I bought the ski, you have to too. Sadly we see some of that here while some do it on purpose, I don't think most realize they are even doing it. The second are the ones that are paid guerilla marketing influencers that "share" their opinions. These are on line, in forums, in shops and on the hill. They come off as your friend but their actions are not to help you but to help themselves.

Even when people buy skis appropriate for the conditions they actually ski; all to often they but a ski suited to how they want to ski it vs how they actually ski it.

 

[tromano]

Fully agree. Unfortunately, the options for "fun" shapes (tapered tip/tail, semi-twin, progressive mount) in ~80-90mm widths are pretty limited. Especially if you're looking for something with some metal/stiffness (e.g. not a soft park ski or a ski designed for intermediates).

But there are a lot of skiers who would be -- IMO -- well served by them. Fun in bumps/trees/natural features, skinny enough for making groomers exciting, good edge grip. Wide enough to give a nice platform for off-piste adventures. @GregK 's Faction 1.0s are a rare example.

The design choices needed to make a versatile tweener ski, good in bumps, confident in steep gnarr terrain and fun in soft snow make it too forgiving for expert skiers. These lesser skis are suitable only for intermediates and tourists.

 

[DocGKR]

Ironically -- in one of the most popular groomer videos of the past several years -- the main dude is on a 100mm all-mountain ski for almost the entire video.

End of season Spring skiing at Snowbird on soft snow.

Here they are on narrower skis....no big deal:

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Are slalom skis not looked favorably in Austria? I was watching Gellie and this interviewer, who's an instructor, at 4:30 and 8:20 said you would be laughed at if you showed up with a slalom ski. Maybe I didn't understand the context, if he's talking about rec skiers in general or the instructor class.