The Four Fundamentals

[Steve]

So here's how I see it.

1. Fore/Aft movements
2. Lateral movements
3. Rotational movements
4. Vertical movements

It's what we do to create Balance, Edging, Rotation and Pressure.

It's what we do to:

• Direct Pressure to the Outside Ski. ...
• Control Edge Angles with Inclination and Angulation. ...
• Keep the Center of Mass over the Base of Support. ...
• Control the Skis' Rotation with leg rotation. ...
• Regulate the Pressure Created by the Ski/Snow Interaction.

I'd rather focus on what we do than on concepts. Yes outcome based focus is also good, but first things first. Movements

1. Move from the center of the foot to the balls of the feet to the heels through ankle flexion, hip flexion, etc.
2. Move from ski to ski. Tip the skis. Pressure the outside ski through lateral movements. Release the edges through lateral movements.
3. Create torque and separation through turning the legs. Steer the skis.
4. Shorten and lengthen the legs, absorb terrain, manage pressure.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@Steve, great idea for discussion. I like it. I like it a lot.

Would you consider morphing that first one so that it focuses moving pressure fore-aft under the ski instead of fore-aft under the foot?
--A skier feels the ski as an extension of the foot, just as we feel a pencil as an extension of our hand. So this should not be a problem. And it would be more precise.
--Such a focus would leave room for using tongue-shin pressure together with underfoot pressure. The way it reads now, controlling tongue-shin contact and pressure are not there. I'm concerned that this isn't included.

Or you could just add the tongue-shin part.

 

[Noodler]

So here's how I see it.

1. Fore/Aft movements
2. Lateral movements
3. Rotational movements
4. Vertical movements

It's what we do to create Balance, Edging, Rotation and Pressure.

It's what we do to:

• Direct Pressure to the Outside Ski. ...
• Control Edge Angles with Inclination and Angulation. ...
• Keep the Center of Mass over the Base of Support. ...
• Control the Skis' Rotation with leg rotation. ...
• Regulate the Pressure Created by the Ski/Snow Interaction.

I'd rather focus on what we do than on concepts. Yes outcome based focus is also good, but first things first. Movements

1. Move from the center of the foot to the balls of the feet to the heels through ankle flexion, hip flexion, etc.
2. Move from ski to ski. Tip the skis. Pressure the outside ski through lateral movements. Release the edges through lateral movements.
3. Create torque and separation through turning the legs. Steer the skis.
4. Shorten and lengthen the legs, absorb terrain, manage pressure.

Some might even call some of the movements "primary"...

 

[Steve]

@LiquidFeet great addition.

1. Move from the center of the foot to the balls of the feet to the heels directing pressure to the skis fore and aft. Utilzing ankle flexion, hip flexion, etc.

 

[Steve]

Some might even call some of the movements "primary"...

Most assuredly! Is that 4-some listed somewhere that way?

 

[Noodler]

Most assuredly! Is that 4-some listed somewhere that way?

They're referred to as the "Essentials of Skiing":

• Tipping
• Flexing and Extending
• Fore-Aft
• Counterbalancing & Counter-action
  

 

[Steve]

They're referred to as the "Essentials of Skiing":

• Tipping - Lateral movements
• Flexing and Extending - Vertical movements
• Fore-Aft
• Counterbalancing & Counter-action - Rotational movements

Yup, pretty much the same lol! I like mine better though. Lateral movements to me include more than just tipping the skis. They include pressuring the outside ski.

Don't get me wrong I prefer this breakdown to the 5 fundamentals. I just think they are still a little too specific and outcome oriented.

Sometimes skiing is just about moving side to side and fore to aft.

 

[Noodler]

Yup, pretty much the same lol! I like mine better though. Lateral movements to me include more than just tipping the skis. They include pressuring the outside ski.

Don't get me wrong I prefer this breakdown to the 5 fundamentals. I just think they are still a little too specific and outcome oriented.

Sometimes skiing is just about moving side to side and fore to aft.

I like your model. It comes more from a 6DOF perspective in 3D space. What movements we use to manage our body position; vertical, horizontal, fore/aft.

 

[graham418]

Could you make it just 3 things?

Balance
Steering
Pressure

 

[Noodler]

Could you make it just 3 things?

Balance
Steering
Pressure

Maybe it's just me, but I hate the term "steering". It seems to imply active rotary movements (like using the steering wheel of a car). I recognize that many skiers actively twist/pivot their skis, so the movements do exist in the context of skiing.

I guess I should point out that my reference to 6DOF movement was all for translational movement directions, none reference rotational.

 

[Steve]

6DOF

Six degrees of freedom (6DoF) refers to the freedom of movement of a rigid body in three-dimensional space. Specifically, the body is free to change position as forward/backward (surge), up/down (heave), left/right (sway) translation in three perpendicular axes, combined with changes in orientation through rotation about three perpendicular axes, often termed yaw (normal axis), pitch (transverse axis), and roll (longitudinal axis). Three degrees of freedom (3DOF), a term often used in the context of virtual reality, refers to tracking of rotational motion only: pitch, yaw, and roll.[1][2]

 

[Steve]

Could you make it just 3 things?

Balance
Steering
Pressure

I'm not crazy about that breakdown. Might as well go back to BERP (Balance Edging Rotary Pressure.) What does "balance" tell the skier to do? Mine says move fore or aft , or side to side to balance.

Maybe it's just me, but I hate the term "steering". It seems to imply active rotary movements (like using the steering wheel of a car). I recognize that many skiers actively twist/pivot their skis, so the movements do exist in the context of skiing.

I guess I should point out that my reference to 6DOF movement was all for translational movement directions, none reference rotational.

You'll note that I put steer the skis as a secondary aspect of rotation. Torque, separation and steering. Steering does come into play at times, but much less than I used to think!

As you can see from my Wikipedia quotation. 6DoF does include rotation.

 

[Bad Bob]

Are there any non mechanically assisted motion sports these do not apply to?

Just a question from a confused mind.

 

[Steve]

Are there any non mechanically assisted motion sports these do not apply to?

Just a question from a confused mind.

On first thought maybe not. Even mechanical motions sports, if self-propelled, work with this.

More of a reason why I like it. What do we do with our bodies to make the (ski/snow interaction create the desired path and speed?) (body and water interaction create the desired swim strokes and speed with the least resistance?) (bicycle travel in the direction and speed that we want?)

 

[oldschoolskier]

I’ll get it down to one. All of those things mentioned fall under the action of Balance.

 

[JESinstr]

Steve, Students come to class with excellent and complex fore and aft dynamic balancing skills, Its called walking, running skipping etc.

What we want in skiing is drive all fore and aft adjustments "outward" from the center of the foot bounded by the back of the ball of the big toe and front of the heel.

I don't know about anyone else but in the context of carved turns, I try and let the ski do the work and my balance focus is on dealing more with securing the center and then playing the extremes.

 

[Steve]

Yes @JESinstr I agree with that. That plus moving laterally side to side with relatively level shoulders. With the proper mix of those two movements I can effortlessly pure carve down a moderate slope, and effortlessly semi-carve down a steep slope.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@LiquidFeet great addition.

1. Move from the center of the foot to the balls of the feet to the heels directing pressure to the skis fore and aft. Utilzing ankle flexion, hip flexion, etc.

Would you be willing to mention management of tongue-shin pressure since leverage is a big part of directing pressure to the shovel?

 

[LiquidFeet]

Could you make it just 3 things?

Balance
Steering
Pressure

I also don't like "steering" since it can mean so many things. Tipping or edging really needs to be in any list. It's essential.

 

[Steve]

Would you be willing to mention management of tongue-shin pressure since leverage is a big part of directing pressure to the shovel?

I’m not publishing anything. I don’t often think of tongue/shin pressure but of course it’s happening.

I just like to keep it simple. When you move to the ball of the foot of course there will be more pressure on the cuff.