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The "I need to brag about a gear purchase" thread--Cycling version

Rudi Riet

AKA songfta AKA randomduck - a USSS coach, as well
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Not sure anyone here is a member of Escape Collective, but they have a great article on the costs of manufacturing composite bike frames and how prices compare to 20 years ago. It's a great read (and I believe it's a members-only article but I'll share it here anyway in case it does work for folks).

 

Jersey Skier

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Not sure anyone here is a member of Escape Collective, but they have a great article on the costs of manufacturing composite bike frames and how prices compare to 20 years ago. It's a great read (and I believe it's a members-only article but I'll share it here anyway in case it does work for folks).

Did you listen to their 4 part podcast of how the industry was affected by the pandemic? A bit PTSD inducing for me.
 

Tony Storaro

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Not sure anyone here is a member of Escape Collective, but they have a great article on the costs of manufacturing composite bike frames and how prices compare to 20 years ago. It's a great read (and I believe it's a members-only article but I'll share it here anyway in case it does work for folks).


It is really not that complicated. You take the list price of a frameset produced in the same facility where Spesh, Trek and the others are made, in the carbon fiber capital of the world, the beautiful city of Xiamen, but sold under a different name, then divide it by two or thereabouts and with $500 per frame you won‘t be far off.
 

Rudi Riet

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It is really not that complicated. You take the list price of a frameset produced in the same facility where Spesh, Trek and the others are made, in the carbon fiber capital of the world, the beautiful city of Xiamen, but sold under a different name, then divide it by two or thereabouts and with $500 per frame you won‘t be far off.

That applies to the lion's share of composite frame manufacture, but not all of it.

Time, Look, Colnago, Merckx, Factor, Calfee - they all roll their own frames in their own factories. Their sunk costs are higher, by the by, than anything produced by, say, ADK Composites or even Giant.
 

Tony Storaro

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That applies to the lion's share of composite frame manufacture, but not all of it.

Time, Look, Colnago, Merckx, Factor, Calfee - they all roll their own frames in their own factories. Their sunk costs are higher, by the by, than anything produced by, say, ADK Composites or even Giant.

Hold on…about Colnago, they don’t make their carbon. They assemble the C68 as in glue it together in Italy but the carbon is made elsewhere.
And about the carbon-there is about only one company that makes ALL of the carbon fibre in the world and it is Toray in Japan. Unless Reglass are still alive which I am not sure about.

And the one Pogacar&Co ride is not made in Italy at all.

Factor bikes ARE made in Xiamen.

Look bikes are, I believe, made in Tunisia, the lower end ones-in China.

Merckx are made in China.

We should probably mention Festka here-another brand I’d very much like to a have a bike from-these appear to be made in EU but who knows really.
 

Rudi Riet

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Hold on…about Colnago, they don’t make their carbon. They assemble the C68 as in glue it together in Italy but the carbon is made elsewhere.
And about the carbon-there is about only one company that makes ALL of the carbon fibre in the world and it is Toray in Japan. Unless Reglass are still alive which I am not sure about.

And the one Pogacar&Co ride is not made in Italy at all.

Factor bikes ARE made in Xiamen.

Look bikes are, I believe, made in Tunisia, the lower end ones-in China.

Merckx are made in China.

We should probably mention Festka here-another brand I’d very much like to a have a bike from-these appear to be made in EU but who knows really.

It's not about where the factories are or where the carbon fabric is woven. It's whether the brands' factories are their own and not shared with another brand.

I'm familiar with the Chinese "cities of bike fabrication," like Xiamen and Shenzhen and how a lot of brands rely on a handful of factories for most of their frames, forks, and finishing kit. The difference is that some more bespoke brands are more self-contained with regard to their carbon frame manufacture - e.g. Factor, Look.

So while some of these brands still do their frame manufacturing in the EU (or in the USA) there is still a lot of weight placed on Asia for materials.

Regarding Festka: their steel and alloy frames are made in the EU. Their carbon may have final point of manufacture in the EU but the carbon, as noted, is from Asia.

And the four-part story from Escape Collective on the pandemic's effects on the bike industry is super informative and sobering.
 

Tony Storaro

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It's not about where the factories are or where the carbon fabric is woven. It's whether the brands' factories are their own and not shared with another brand.

I'm familiar with the Chinese "cities of bike fabrication," like Xiamen and Shenzhen and how a lot of brands rely on a handful of factories for most of their frames, forks, and finishing kit. The difference is that some more bespoke brands are more self-contained with regard to their carbon frame manufacture - e.g. Factor, Look.

So while some of these brands still do their frame manufacturing in the EU (or in the USA) there is still a lot of weight placed on Asia for materials.

Regarding Festka: their steel and alloy frames are made in the EU. Their carbon may have final point of manufacture in the EU but the carbon, as noted, is from Asia.

And the four-part story from Escape Collective on the pandemic's effects on the bike industry is super informative and sobering.

I can only read it to a point and then it asks a registration or something. Can you briefly summarize the main points?
 

Tom K.

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Time, Look, Colnago, Merckx, Factor, Calfee - they all roll their own frames in their own factories. Their sunk costs are higher, by the by, than anything produced by, say, ADK Composites or even Giant.

Yup, but I'll be the guy that wonders whether or not their frames are any better than those made by Giant.
 

Tony Storaro

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Yup, but I'll be the guy that wonders whether or not their frames are any better than those made by Giant.

I’ll tell you soon enough how different Time ADH is from the TCR. I am expecting some less punishing ride but we will see.
 

Tom K.

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Better isn't required. Independently sourced so we don't have single chain failure again, and competitive on price is much more interesting to me.

Damn good point!
 

robertc3

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Not sure anyone here is a member of Escape Collective, but they have a great article on the costs of manufacturing composite bike frames and how prices compare to 20 years ago. It's a great read (and I believe it's a members-only article but I'll share it here anyway in case it does work for folks).

It was a very interesting article. Yes, members only, but my free membership worked.
 

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