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The Never-Ending Faction Discussion

ScottB

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Had a @GregK encounter yesterday at Killington. Rode the lift with a guy on a pair of 21 CT1.0's. he loved them and he knew of the thread on ski talk about them. He admitted he found the thread after buying the skis from the house on their $200 close out sale. Had them tuned first and never looked back. I had mine but keep them in the car to preserve the bottoms from pebbles at the lift.

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GregK

GregK

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Had a @GregK encounter yesterday at Killington. Rode the lift with a guy on a pair of 21 CT1.0's. he loved them and he knew of the thread on ski talk about them. He admitted he found the thread after buying the skis from the house on their $200 close out sale. Had them tuned first and never looked back. I had mine but keep them in the car to preserve the bottoms from pebbles at the lift.

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Even rocking the Forza Pivots on them too. Unless he got them on sale at Corbetts they would have cost more than the skis! Haha

Funny you are protecting your “cheap” Factions like me. I don’t worry as much about my black base CT 2.0’as they hide ptex repairs more than the yellow bases would.
My one buddy I sold a pair of 183cm CT 1.0 to got a core shot getting off the chair lift at Collingwood as the coverage was so bad there this year.
 

ScottB

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I would say I was protecting the $125 SKIMD tune more than the skis. Truthfully any ski I like a lot I tend to keep them away from bottom damaging conditions. Superstar had good coverage, but getting on the chair lift was a little sketchy. I was on my 10 year old SkiLogiks which were working very well in the spring bumps
 

EG-NJ

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Had a @GregK encounter yesterday at Killington. Rode the lift with a guy on a pair of 21 CT1.0's. he loved them and he knew of the thread on ski talk about them. He admitted he found the thread after buying the skis from the house on their $200 close out sale. Had them tuned first and never looked back. I had mine but keep them in the car to preserve the bottoms from pebbles at the lift.

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If you absolutely can't say goodbye to winter, then after Killington closes there is always NJ. https://www.bigsnowamericandream.com/
 

SpeedyKevin

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Should feel the same but 3cm longer than your Dictator 3s! ;)
8ish cm! I only have the 180cm D3!

Though I love the 180 for tight terrain, I have been wanting a longer one for open bowls. Always had that going over the handle bars feeling in wide open fast terrain.
 
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GregK

GregK

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8ish cm! I only have the 180cm D3!

Though I love the 180 for tight terrain, I have been wanting a longer one for open bowls. Always had that going over the handle bars feeling in wide open fast terrain.
Couldn’t see if it was the 183cm or 188cm but figured you had the 180cm Dictator. The 188cm should be much more stable then!
 
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GregK

GregK

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Got insane pricing so decided to give the 184cm Sender Free 110 a try next year compared to the 184cm 21 CT 3.0. Got Blue Attack 17s to put on them but might swap to the green/black Attack 16s instead off my Wildcats. Black bindings look too boring on them and want a splash of colour besides black on them. Have red/black Attack 13s but wanted the heavier, metal heel 16 or 17 on them.

Corbetts threw in a ton of free stuff with them too and even brought my scale in to compare weights of their stock. Took the heaviest pair at 2230gr each which is a bit above their spec of 2200gr.
Almost the exact same rocker length, dimensions(only 0.5mm narrower underfoot and tail and 0.5mm wider tip) so should be very similar turn radius. The flex is a bit softer at the extreme tip/tail and stiffer underfoot than the CT 3.0. Stiffer tip/tail and overall Vs the Blackops 118 and seem pretty damp when slapped down on the carpet.
Anxious to try them out next season!

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Sidewall height highlighting the tip and underfoot flex difference.

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SpeedyKevin

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Got insane pricing so decided to give the 184cm Sender Free 110 a try next year compared to the 184cm 21 CT 3.0. Got Blue Attack 17s to put on them but might swap to the green/black Attack 16s instead off my Wildcats. Black bindings look too boring on them and want a splash of colour besides black on them. Have red/black Attack 13s but wanted the heavier, metal heel 16 or 17 on them.

Corbetts threw in a ton of free stuff with them too and even brought my scale in to compare weights of their stock. Took the heaviest pair at 2230gr each which is a bit above their spec of 2200gr.
Almost the exact same rocker length, dimensions(only 0.5mm narrower underfoot and tail and 0.5mm wider tip) so should be very similar turn radius. The flex is a bit softer at the extreme tip/tail and stiffer underfoot than the CT 3.0. Stiffer tip/tail and overall Vs the Blackops 118 and seem pretty damp when slapped down on the carpet.
Anxious to try them out next season!

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Sidewall height highlighting the tip and underfoot flex difference.

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LOL I was seriously considering a 191 as the local shop was selling it w/ bindings for 40% off. Talked myself out of it since my CT3 184s were still going strong. That and the rumor mill was that the FWT riders were using a non air-tip version.
 

ski otter 2

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LOL I was seriously considering a 191 as the local shop was selling it w/ bindings for 40% off. Talked myself out of it since my CT3 184s were still going strong. That and the rumor mill was that the FWT riders were using a non air-tip version.
For me it would be the longest ones I'd want to try. (But afraid they'll be too much like the Sender Ti.)
Guess I will, probably, at early demo days next season.

But as near as I can tell from just reading about them so far (mostly Blister), they don't seem as interesting as the longest Blanks, which for me are already owned, mountain tested - and tops, except for the Black Ops 118 and Pettitors, which are wider and thus for a bit different spot in the quiver.

Maybe Peak will improve their 110 for next season's batch, and it will finally be fully in the running also - dunno.

(Reduced to off season holding patterns, sorry.)
 

SpeedyKevin

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For me it would be the longest ones I'd want to try. (But afraid they'll be too much like the Sender Ti.)
Guess I will, probably, at early demo days next season.

But as near as I can tell from just reading about them so far (mostly Blister), they don't seem as interesting as the longest Blanks, which for me are already owned, mountain tested - and tops, except for the Black Ops 118 and Pettitors, which are wider and thus for a bit different spot in the quiver.

Maybe Peak will improve their 110 for next season's batch, and it will finally be fully in the running also - dunno.

(Reduced to off season holding patterns, sorry.)
Been reading your praises about the Peak 104. Would be interested to try one out and also the 110 once they get that one refined.
 
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GregK

GregK

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How do you find the wildcats compared to the CTs?
The 190cm Wildcats are lighter and less damp than the 190cm CT 3.0 and because of their 27m radius, require a decent amount of speed to be fun carving on groomers. Because of their large tip/tail splay and the fact that Moment skis don’t like their edges sharp past the camber rocker points, they are surfier when flat but don’t have as much effective edge or grip when on edge Vs the CT 3.0.
The Wildcats are a more typical flex pattern being pretty stiff throughout but soft on the extreme tips/tails Vs the stiff tips/tails and not as stiff/peaky underfoot.

Find my Blackops 118 are more similar to the “wide carver” feel of the CT 3.0 with even more mass, damping and of course width. Find they are more fun at more moderate speeds on groomers than the Wildcats but lack the super high stable of those.
Finding the Blackops 118 more versatile for the conditions I usually see.
 
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GregK

GregK

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LOL I was seriously considering a 191 as the local shop was selling it w/ bindings for 40% off. Talked myself out of it since my CT3 184s were still going strong. That and the rumor mill was that the FWT riders were using a non air-tip version.
The 191cm would be maybe a HAIR “less ski” than the 190cm 21 CT 3.0 but it would be close and I wouldn’t be surprised if the slightly softer tip/tail of the Sender 110 along with the added rubber improves its suspension a bit over the CT 3.0. The 184cm versions should be very similar to each other with the longer length a step up in stability.

Was worried too about the Air Tip but it’s quite short on the Sender 110 and it ends about the same spot a carving tip would start. So the rubber is in the rocker contact point and extends partially into the tip area and down towards the middle of the ski. So it won’t be as quiet or as solid in the tips as a Blackops 118 or 21 CT 2.0 but hopefully in between those and the CT 3.0 that has no rubber there.
Remember calculating an appropriate weight of a “Blackops 110 build” and coming out to about 2300gr in a 184cm. My Sender Free 110 are 2230gr so not THAT far off. I bet if you lose the air tips(and just move the rubber up into the tips more), it would be 2300gr and be even more quiet.

Pics comparing the Blackops 118 and Sender 110 Free Tips. Notice the thicker sidewall height(stiffer) on the Sender Free and how the spacer/Air Tip ends before the bottom of the tip.

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GregK

GregK

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For me it would be the longest ones I'd want to try. (But afraid they'll be too much like the Sender Ti.)
Guess I will, probably, at early demo days next season.

But as near as I can tell from just reading about them so far (mostly Blister), they don't seem as interesting as the longest Blanks, which for me are already owned, mountain tested - and tops, except for the Black Ops 118 and Pettitors, which are wider and thus for a bit different spot in the quiver.

Maybe Peak will improve their 110 for next season's batch, and it will finally be fully in the running also - dunno.

(Reduced to off season holding patterns, sorry.)
The Sender Free 110 is much heavier than the standard Sender line and just a hair under the Squad weight in the 191cm. So the 191cm Sender Free will feel closer to the Sender Squad than it will to the Blackops 118 in suspension and a big step above the much lighter 194cm Sender 106Ti.
The 194 Sender 106Ti is about 100gr lighter than the 191cm Sender Free 110, has no rubber tip/tail and probably a bit stiffer tip so it doesn’t absorb variable quite as well.

The 194cm Blank does so well in crud as it has lots of mass and quite soft tips/tails that do a great job smoothing out the terrain.
The Peaks all have similar flex pattern- very soft tip/tail but ramping up underfoot so they punch above their weight in crud but are all around the 2000gr range in their longest lengths so aren’t really in the same weight class.
The Sender Free 110 would be like 200-300gr heavier Peak 110 with stiffer tips/tails, more effective edge, touch more rocker and splay and of course a more progressive mount point.

Blister hasn’t really even tried the Sender Free 110 much at the Directional(-2cm) mount range or beyond so I don’t think they have truly discovered what it can do compared to skis like the Sender Squad or CT 3.0. I tried to measure the Center of the minimum sidecut width on the Sender Free 110 and got around -7.5cm back from Center which is similar to the Blackops 118 at -8cm. So even the -2cm Directional(-5.4cm total from Center) is still a couple cm in front of that so the Sender Free should still be okay back even further. Think I’ll do -2.5 to -3cm back on my 184cm.

Here’s Blisters comments on the 191cm Sender Free 110 in a comparison to the 192cm Mfee 108. Again they are skiing the Sender on the rec line(-3.4cm from Center).

“Jonathan: And we have some significant precedent here: I looooooove the Rossignol Blackops 118 mounted behind its recommended line (opting for around -6 cm from true center); see Luke and Dylan’s Flash Review of the Sender Free 110 for more on that comparison. And let’s remember that this Sender Free 110 was supposed to be a narrower Blackops 118. I can’t say that the 191 cm Sender Free 110 really reminds me very much of a narrower 186 cm Blackops 118 — it actually reminds me more of another ski I love, the 194 cm Rossignol Sender Squad, which (interestingly) has a mount point of -6.25 cm.

Take a look at the specs of the Rossi Sender Squad vs the Sender Free 110:

194 cm Rossi Sender Squad
Measured Dimensions: 141.1-110.4-131.5 mm
Stated Radius: 25 m
Measured Weight per Ski: 2412 & 2426 g
Measured Tip-to-Tail Profile: 56 mm / 3.5 mm / 26 mm
Measured Length: 193.3 cm
Measured Mount Point: -6.25 cm from center; 90.4 cm from tail
Core Construction: poplar + titanal underfoot + “Damp Tech” tip insert + fiberglass laminate

191 cm Rossi Sender Free 110




Measured Dimensions: 140.1-111.5-132.6 mm
Stated Radius (191 cm): 22 meters
Measured Weight per Ski: 2328 & 2370 grams
Measured Tip & Tail Profile: 65 mm / 4 mm / 48 mm
Measured Length: 189.5 cm
Measured Mount Point: -3.6 cm from center; 91.1 cm from tail
Core Construction: poplar + partial titanal layer + rubber inserts + “Air Tip” insert + carbon & fiberglass laminate

The Sender Free 110 is slightly lighter, and the biggest differences to me are (1) the more forward mount point on the Sender Free 110, (2) its additional tip and tail rocker, and then (3) the tails of the Sender Free 110 feel a bit more poppy and energetic vs the extremely plush and forgiving tails of the Sender Squad.”

He ends the review mentioning trying the Sender Free 110 behind the line but haven’t seen an update yet.
 

ski otter 2

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That more forward mount for the 110 Sender Free may match what the Rossi head of hardgoods said on the Blister podcast about the Squad:
move the Squad mount forward a few centimeters, and you get a more "turny" ski, in a good way - hopefully no down side.
And since the Squad ski is longer than the 118 (as is the longest new 110), moved forward it retains the fore-aft stability still
for a much larger skier (which he was). He's saying he and those in his group like him, often preferred a more forward mount for the Squad also -
and that may have had a lot to do with the more forward mount point of the new 110, I hope. So this is promising.

But Blister so far has not made the "turny" ski connection, or association, or even notice, in their own reviews;
so not sure of the success of the 110 in this regard, potentially having the incredible both gnarly and playful Sean Pettit "turniness" I love
in the moved forward Pettitor and Black Ops 118 (workable for less than large skiers, in this case), and apparently in the Squad also.

The Blank, on the other hand, I've found to be a "bird in the hand," instead of a "bird in the bush" in the case of the longest 110.
Jee Whiz, it works - no flaws or lapses so far (as is the failing with the Peak 110). It uses a relatively shorter turn radius
to get a more playful effect/option, albeit not a full Sean Pettit like turn.

Hope more of you get to try it.
 

ski otter 2

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(The longest Blank was the consensus choice last season of the young guns in my favored ski shop, and some Salomon reps/associates at the early season demo back then - one of them a fairly short woman,
so I know it's not just me with that ski.)
 
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GregK

GregK

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That more forward mount for the 110 Sender Free may match what the Rossi head of hardgoods said on the Blister podcast about the Squad:
move the Squad mount forward a few centimeters, and you get a more "turny" ski, in a good way - hopefully no down side.
And since the Squad ski is longer than the 118 (as is the longest new 110), moved forward it retains the fore-aft stability still
for a much larger skier (which he was). He's saying he and those in his group like him, often preferred a more forward mount for the Squad also -
and that may have had a lot to do with the more forward mount point of the new 110, I hope. So this is promising.

But Blister so far has not made the "turny" ski connection, or association, or even notice, in their own reviews;
so not sure of the success of the 110 in this regard, potentially having the incredible both gnarly and playful Sean Pettit "turniness" I love
in the moved forward Pettitor and Black Ops 118 (workable for less than large skiers, in this case), and apparently in the Squad also.

The Blank, on the other hand, I've found to be a "bird in the hand," instead of a "bird in the bush" in the case of the longest 110.
Jee Whiz, it works - no flaws or lapses so far (as is the failing with the Peak 110). It uses a relatively shorter turn radius
to get a more playful effect/option, albeit not a full Sean Pettit like turn.

Hope more of you get to try it.
Like any ski, the Sender Squad, Free 110 or Blackops 118 will get more easier to initiate turns but the Rossignols and it sounds like the Pettitor have a very long range where their min sidecut stays very constant.
Found on the Sender Free 110 and Blackops 118, when I set a digital gauge for their min widths, I can move the gauge about 16cm total before the increasing widths towards the Center or tail start to resist sliding the gauge. That’s much more than most skis and the reason you can move the mounts on these skis quite a bit without running into issues.
Add the very symmetrical rocker length tip/tail on the Sender Free 110 and Blackops 118 and you can move mounts more forward than most skis without being forward of the camber running length Center.

The Sender Squad is more directional in shape and in rocker profile(tip length Vs tail) so you can’t move its mount as close to Center without running into “too much of a good thing.”

Was just playing with the Sender Free 110 before putting all the other skis away and its sidecut, shape and flex pattern are shocking similar to the Blackops 118. The increase in stiffness is just a step up everywhere which makes sense as it’s for harder snow. Feels like an “in between” flex of the CT 3.0 and Blackops 118 on the tip/tail and a hair stiffer than the BO underfoot. Really liking their Goldilocks flex pattern.
Like the Sender Squad, the Sender Free 110 seems to be another outlier of the Sender line.

There were some days I wanted a more lively ski than the BO 118 that was more damp than the 184cm CT 3.0 and hoping this might be it. Now we wait for snow……lol

BTW-You’ll have to time stamp a “Pettit turn” on a video sometime. Have watched lots of videos over the years but still don’t know what constitutes his signature turn.
 

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