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The Never-Ending Faction Discussion

ski otter 2

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Like any ski, the Sender Squad, Free 110 or Blackops 118 will get more easier to initiate turns but the Rossignols and it sounds like the Pettitor have a very long range where their min sidecut stays very constant.
Found on the Sender Free 110 and Blackops 118, when I set a digital gauge for their min widths, I can move the gauge about 16cm total before the increasing widths towards the Center or tail start to resist sliding the gauge. That’s much more than most skis and the reason you can move the mounts on these skis quite a bit without running into issues.
Add the very symmetrical rocker length tip/tail on the Sender Free 110 and Blackops 118 and you can move mounts more forward than most skis without being forward of the camber running length Center.

The Sender Squad is more directional in shape and in rocker profile(tip length Vs tail) so you can’t move its mount as close to Center without running into “too much of a good thing.”

Was just playing with the Sender Free 110 before putting all the other skis away and its sidecut, shape and flex pattern are shocking similar to the Blackops 118. The increase in stiffness is just a step up everywhere which makes sense as it’s for harder snow. Feels like an “in between” flex of the CT 3.0 and Blackops 118 on the tip/tail and a hair stiffer than the BO underfoot. Really liking their Goldilocks flex pattern.
Like the Sender Squad, the Sender Free 110 seems to be another outlier of the Sender line.

There were some days I wanted a more lively ski than the BO 118 that was more damp than the 184cm CT 3.0 and hoping this might be it. Now we wait for snow……lol

BTW-You’ll have to time stamp a “Pettit turn” on a video sometime. Have watched lots of videos over the years but still don’t know what constitutes his signature turn.
Great stuff. Puts the Sender Free 110 high on my list again (in spite of some of the stuff in the Blister reviews).

I was initially told about the Pettit turn by K2 reps/associates, without any videos, just friendly associates doing it on the slopes;
I mounted up the 190 pull Pettitors and moved them forward to experience it for myself, and found it a distinctly different feeling turn
(all without ever actually seeing him do it).

An amazingly distinct turn, in feel/dynamic. (The only other ski besides those three, the 118, the Squad (I'm told), and the Pettitors,
that have it, that I've found, was a pair of DPS 112 Wailer(?) skis I demoed from half a dozen years ago at least,
only a few years after the Pettitor came out. But that ski got tossed in crud, unlike the K2 and later Rossi two, that are all tanks,
including the 118 B.O. for not too large skiers. AHEM, THEY STILL NEED TO COME OUT WITH A 191 ROSSI BLACK OPS 118.)

In most videos, Pettit is doing extreme things on extreme terrain, so it's hard to tell his signature turn when it's happening,
in such extreme terrain/conditions, on surviving videos.
Once you've experienced it for yourself, you can then spot it, in very guarded/careful versions, in conditions that mask it, partly.

(I know I posted a few such videos last time the subject came up, that have some admittedly harder to spot turn versions, shown pretty well.
But it's kind of underwhelming to see it, in those video situations that actually de-emphasize it - it's too ordinary-looking for the camera)

(Some of the milder, more casual and thus more "easy to spot it" videos, had been taken down, last time I looked.)
But I'll try to find a good example, if I can, from his old videos that are still posted. Ski season's over, after all. :)

That Pettit turn, great for K2 reps/associates at the time who followed Sean Pettit's lead, Seth Morrison's, and Pep Fujas' lead also,
lost the interest of the bean counters and rubber maid execs newly overseeing K2, and they plowed those skis under, in just a few years.

Then Pep Fujas the freestyler sort of took over, and his new replacement skis got more freestyle-like and noodly
(which Sean Pettit too liked, because he was sick of extreme skiing by then, seemingly);
and K2 fired the wrong pros (Seth and finally Sean).

Thus the fatter lines of K2 skis lost their magic, for me (and for some associates).

And Sean Pettit switched to mostly snowboarding, but also skis he could do more tricks on at slower speeds, on more normal slopes.

And Seth Morrison had long since switched to mostly backcountry skiing, so he was by then more interested in lighter weight skis he could carry,
rather than his signature resort tanks.

Much later, Rossi stepped in, with its original Black Ops 118 knock off. :)

(You can still easily get my K2 associate friends to reminisce about the good old days, of Seth and Sean Pettit skis.)
 
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GregK

GregK

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AHEM, THEY STILL NEED TO COME OUT WITH A 191 ROSSI BLACK OPS 118.)
Yes to this!
Still shocked they haven’t yet as there is such a demand for it.
Even a 180ish cm version would sell well for those in-between the 176cm and 186cm sizes.

When it takes three years to just reduce the dimensions of the Blackops 118 and they still make unwanted additions(AirTip), I guess things move slowly there! Lol
 
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GregK

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Decided to swap the new blue Attack 17 onto my Moment Wildcats as I knew they would look killer on them and use the Green/Black Attack 16 to add more pop to the more subtle Sender Graphics.

IMG_2794.jpeg

Already marked the -2.75cm back mount as well on the Senders.
 

SpeedyKevin

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Spent the last 2 days on the 188 Dancer 3 and have to say I am enjoying it quite a bit!

Compared to the 180 D3, there definitely is a noticeable improvement in stability and dampness. Found myself going faster off piste in the sun cuppy and choppy terrain around the Wipeout and Dropout chutes in Mammoth. Definitely more forgiving offpiste which is what I wanted. I am still not pushing these skis hard as I have yet to have a confidence-building-hard-charge through variable conditions run :D (What I like to call the bump factor of a ski). That being said, the 188 is still decently maneuverable and quite fun in moderately spaced bumps like the ones on Solitude. That was quite surprising considering their length. So in short, expected improvements in stability and dampness but a surprisingly less-than-expected loss of maneuverability for a +8cm increase in length.

Looking forward to learning the ski more over the next few weeks!
 
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SpeedyKevin

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Mounted at -9.7 from center or +.5cm from Progressive (-9.3 if you go by Blister's specs). I have my D2 182, D3 180, and M6 mantra mounted in this range too. Looks pretty centered!



1686613045357.png

If you look closely, you can see some other famed Faction and Rossignol skis :ogbiggrin:
 

Mendieta

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Here is something fun! Saturday I got yet another ski day (amazing season here), this time at Mammoth (the only open place around). Still lots of snow on the upper mountain! A couple pics below, but here is the kick.

As I get into the Gondola, a young fella helps me put the skis in the outside rack, and starts following my gondi car with the door open.

- "THOSE ARE CANDIDE's !!!"
- "YEAH!"
- "MAN, he is my idol, he revolutionized skiing"
- "Yeah well, guy is a genius, I'm a hack, haha"
- "But yours look so good, the edges are great! You wouldn't belive how trashed some of these factions are"
-" I actually have lots of hits on these but I tune them all the time"
- "Man, I love these skis, they are the best i've ever used"
- " Yeah, me too!!!"

By that time, we had gone all around and the doors closed. The enthusiasm of this guy!

1689606276111.png
 
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GregK

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Here is something fun! Saturday I got yet another ski day (amazing season here), this time at Mammoth (the only open place around). Still lots of snow on the upper mountain! A couple pics below, but here is the kick.

As I get into the Gondola, a young fella helps me put the skis in the outside rack, and starts following my gondi car with the door open.

- "THOSE ARE CANDIDE's !!!"
- "YEAH!"
- "MAN, he is my idol, he revolutionized skiing"
- "Yeah well, guy is a genius, I'm a hack, haha"
- "But yours look so good, the edges are great! You wouldn't belive how trashed some of these factions are"
-" I actually have lots of hits on these but I tune them all the time"
- "Man, I love these skis, they are the best i've ever used"
- " Yeah, me too!!!"

By that time, we had gone all around and the doors closed. The enthusiasm of this guy!

View attachment 207581
“One of us….One of us… One of us!”
:roflmao:

Reminds me of going up the Gondola at Revelstoke this year and a guy came into the gondola with a set of older CT 2.0. He noticed my 21 CT 2.0 I was skiing that day and said he loved his but they were getting old and wanted a set of 22 CT 2.0 “as they don’t make CT skis anymore.” He didn’t realize they were just called Mana 2 now but by the end of the gondola up, I had him searching for some 21 CT 2.0 instead!
Evil grin…….
 

Mendieta

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He didn’t realize they were just called Mana 2

Hey, Sorry if this was answered in one of the thousand posts above :D, but did they also continue the '21 CT 1.0 under a different name? The mana series seems to have continued the CT 2.0 and 3.0 ... Thanks much!
 
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GregK

GregK

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Hey, Sorry if this was answered in one of the thousand posts above :D, but did they also continue the '21 CT 1.0 under a different name? The mana series seems to have continued the CT 2.0 and 3.0 ... Thanks much!
No, afraid the 21 CT 1.0 was a “one and done” for that model with the wider 21 CT models carrying on in 22 and now the Mana line in shape only. The 22 CT 2.0 and CT 3.0/Mana 2 and 3 have the same dimensions and actually a touch stiffer flex but WAY lighter(200-400gr) than the 21 CT versions. No longer have the metal underfoot and moved to more carbon fibre.

They did have a 22 CT 1.0 for one year but it was actually a 22 Prodigy 1.0 with a different topsheet. So it’s still available today but again, different flex pattern and 400gr lighter than the 21 CT 1.0. Did have a 22 Prodigy 1.0 at my house that I bought for a buddy but ended up being able to find a 21 CT 1.0 that was the first choice after.
Thought it would make a fun daily driver/mogul ski that’s still got a solid but more traditional flex pattern to it.
 

Mendieta

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No, afraid the 21 CT 1.0 was a “one and done” for that model with the wider 21 CT models carrying on in 22 and now the Mana line in shape only. The 22 CT 2.0 and CT 3.0/Mana 2 and 3 have the same dimensions and actually a touch stiffer flex but WAY lighter(200-400gr) than the 21 CT versions. No longer have the metal underfoot and moved to more carbon fibre.

They did have a 22 CT 1.0 for one year but it was actually a 22 Prodigy 1.0 with a different topsheet. So it’s still available today but again, different flex pattern and 400gr lighter than the 21 CT 1.0. Did have a 22 Prodigy 1.0 at my house that I bought for a buddy but ended up being able to find a 21 CT 1.0 that was the first choice after.
Thought it would make a fun daily driver/mogul ski that’s still got a solid but more traditional flex pattern to it.
Yeah I really like the metal in the '21 CT 1.0. I love straightlining on choppy snow, feet together a la Candide, and feel the "suspension" : just a little bit of rebound and mostly smooth absorption. Stiff enough to charge but soft enough to work well on bumps. They absolutely nailed that model.

I am thinking the closest thing these days is probably the enforcer 94? But i'll just run this one down to rock ski and then try something else :D

Thank you for the data, as always
 
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GregK

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I am thinking the closest thing these days is probably the enforcer 94?
The JSkis Fastforward is probably the closest thing to the CT 1.0 I think but unfortunately way more money. The Brahma 88 or Enforcer 88 have the weight(and edge grip in the Brahma) of the CT 1.0 but shorter turn radius makes them both less stable at speed.

Blackops 98 and Unleashed 98 similar to the CT 2.0 but again still lighter in weight but both have great carving ability like the CT line.
The Sender 110 is probably the closest current ski to a 21 CT with incredibly similar specs. We’ll see how it compares next fall!

BTW-Jealous of you still skiing!!!! I’m not working much up in Ontario, Canada as it’s too hot, too humid or it’s raining. And you’re still Spring/Summer skiing! :doh:
 

Mendieta

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BTW-Jealous of you still skiing!!!! I’m not working much up in Ontario, Canada as it’s too hot, too humid or it’s raining. And you’re still Spring/Summer skiing!

Absolutely! And I don't take it for granted. I actually drove 7 hours (including 1 hour proper-dinner stop) Friday night, got there 11pm, woke up at 6:30, skied 7:30 through 11:30, and drove back another 7 hours.

The CT 1.0 were spectacular in these summer conditions, btw. From the firm 7:30 am through the hero steep bumps down climax at 9, through the steep slush bumps and groomers turned to a slush fest back to the lift, later on.

I now went through a full season, from early season conditions through summer skiing, and they excelled at everything (95% off-piste which is what i do), except for a few bottomless areas in a couple deep days, where my 185lbs were too much for the 92 mm. But hey, some people claim to love SL skis in those conditions :roflmao: . The biggest difference with my previous DD, the Enforcer 100, is on bumps and tight spots (chutes/trees) where I do a LOT better on the CT's.
 

SpeedyKevin

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Absolutely! And I don't take it for granted. I actually drove 7 hours (including 1 hour proper-dinner stop) Friday night, got there 11pm, woke up at 6:30, skied 7:30 through 11:30, and drove back another 7 hours.

The CT 1.0 were spectacular in these summer conditions, btw. From the firm 7:30 am through the hero steep bumps down climax at 9, through the steep slush bumps and groomers turned to a slush fest back to the lift, later on.

I now went through a full season, from early season conditions through summer skiing, and they excelled at everything (95% off-piste which is what i do), except for a few bottomless areas in a couple deep days, where my 185lbs were too much for the 92 mm. But hey, some people claim to love SL skis in those conditions :roflmao: . The biggest difference with my previous DD, the Enforcer 100, is on bumps and tight spots (chutes/trees) where I do a LOT better on the CT's.
You also driving to Mammoth from the Bay Area? We did that for the last few weekends. Excellent conditions!
 

Jim McDonald

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Can anyone compare 182 Dancer 2 vs 182 Solomon Stance 96 (just read Blister's Deep Dive comp) or Armada 180 Declivity 92???
 
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GregK

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Got my backup set of 21 CT 2.0 183cm mounted up today as I have a buddy who needs a set and my old ones will be perfect for him.
This pair is noticeably stiffer than my first pair ever were and weigh just over 2300gr each(old ones were 2250gr). Had them ground flat last year before mounting the bindings and hand tuned after.
Think they will charge harder than my old pair!

IMG_3316.jpeg
 

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