The Never-Ending Faction Discussion

EG-NJ

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Faction releasing some full camber, symmetrical dedicated pipe(83mm) and park(90mm) models. Wonder if all the athletes will be moving to these from the Prodigy line for competitions.
No interest in these myself but good to see them making symmetrical skis again like the pre 21 CT 1.0 and 2.0.

If you prefer an exclusive all-white pair (to facilitate locating them on powder days) these are a steal at around $17,000 (including the price of the required IWC Schaffhausen Lake Tahoe Top Gun watch). Only 55 pairs are available so don't procrastinate people. The upscale male and female skiers in the photos don't look like they'd spend much time in the park so it's a curious brand tie-in for this model, which is being marketed elsewhere on the site as a dedicated park ski. Maybe they will be on closeout at Sierra.com in the spring.

 

Tony Storaro

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I've enjoyed reading all these posts by traditional skiers who recently have discovered the "dirty little secret" of twin tips: they're not just for park rats anymore. I bought my first pair of Line Sir Francis Bacon about ten years ago and within the first run realized that it was the ski design I unknowingly had been waiting for my entire life. As a recreational inline skater who (unintentionally) has hit downhill speeds of 30+ mph on a 38cm wheelbase, that ingrained neutral/relaxed/centered stance translates perfectly to twin tips. Instead of driving the shins, I tilt my ankles sideways and ride the sweet spot of the hourglass without effort or fatigue because it's all power steering cruise control, baby! And in tight trees, bumps, chutes, etc. the variety of turn techniques come in handy, as do the noticeably shorter tips. Conversely, the longer tails have zero downside even in tight spaces like bumps, but do avert getting in the backseat because the added fore-aft stability is profound. I look forward to testing my new CT 1.0 skis on some eastern hardpack, and wish you all a great 2022/23 season. Cheers.

Very well described indeed.
Although I do skate I approached my CT 1.0 same as any other ski I have had before-forward stance, push the tips then push the tails expecting the usual kick at the end of the turn….push and…nobody home. :roflmao:
I took me good 10-15 runs to adapt to the loose tails and realize i can ski them way more centered and have huge amount of fun while doing so.
 

EG-NJ

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Very well described indeed.
Although I do skate I approached my CT 1.0 same as any other ski I have had before-forward stance, push the tips then push the tails expecting the usual kick at the end of the turn….push and…nobody home. :roflmao:
I took me good 10-15 runs to adapt to the loose tails and realize i can ski them way more centered and have huge amount of fun while doing so.
Thanks. Glad you've discovered the magic as well. Not sure if the 1.0 will be as nimble as my SFB since I plan to mount them at -1.5 from Candide's line, but from your and everyone else's insights it sounds like they'll be intuitive enough. For example, a turn technique I instinctively use to change direction quickly without scrubbing speed is steering with my heels, much like countersteering a motorcycle or bicycle. To go right I just initiate a smear with my heels to the left, which swivels the tips to the right without the delay of digging edges into a carve. Those loose tails have their advantages, especially in the trees. Then again, I'm just a hack without the racing pedigree that many of you have, though my New England hardpack roots have taught me to recognize a good carve when I see one.
 

4ster

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Then again, I'm just a hack without the racing pedigree that many of you have, though my New England hardpack roots have taught me to recognize a good carve when I see one.

Well, the statement below says you are on the right track :)
Instead of driving the shins, I tilt my ankles sideways and ride the sweet spot of the hourglass without effort or fatigue because it's all power steering cruise control, baby!
Like I said in an earlier post I’ve been skiing mostly on TT’s for almost 10 years.
833A5DD9-E7EC-4007-B02D-DB3C3603AEC7.jpeg
 
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EG-NJ

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That snapshot is awesome since it looks like you could be traveling perfectly relaxed and balanced in either direction. The tail spray is the only telltale clue.

You mentioned that your CT 1.0 "do not want to be overpowered". Could you elaborate? I assumed that the titanal sheets and -3 mount would be fairly bulletproof for you in the 178cm.
 

4ster

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That snapshot is awesome since it looks like you could be traveling perfectly relaxed and balanced in either direction. The tail spray is the only telltale clue.

You mentioned that your CT 1.0 "do not want to be overpowered". Could you elaborate? I assumed that the titanal sheets and -3 mount would be fairly bulletproof for you in the 178cm.
I guess the easiest way to say it is that they are not a FIS race ski but then those aren’t usually very versatile either & can be a lot more work…
E768543B-93F8-4BDE-9290-FE7559ED2CC2.jpeg

l will add that the titanal sheet in the 1.0’s is noticeable in a good way! Yesterday morning I spent the morning on my Stockli AR’s & then skied laps on the same run with the 1.0’s. Both were fun but I was definitely more comfortable laying it over on the AR’s. Different tools, different sensations. Although I didn’t ski the AR’s off piste in the bumps, I’m sure I wouldn’t have liked them as much as the 1.0’s, YMMV :)
 
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EG-NJ

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I guess the easiest way to say it is that they are not a FIS race ski but then those aren’t usually very versatile either & can be a lot more work…
View attachment 183411

l will add that the titanal sheet in the 1.0’s is noticeable in a good way! Yesterday morning I spent the morning on my Stockli AR’s & then skied laps on the same run with the 1.0’s. Both were fun but I was definitely more comfortable laying it over on the AR’s. Different tools, different sensations. Although I didn’t ski the AR’s off piste in the bumps, I’m sure I wouldn’t have liked them as much as the 1.0’s, YMMV :)
Thanks for the clarification. Glad to see your season is off to a good start. Back east Buffalo is forecast to get 3+ feet over the weekend while the mountain resorts might see a dusting... Mother Nature's practical joke.
 
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GregK

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@EG-NJ You will have a great time at -1.5cm from CT on the CT 1.0 being used to the SFB ski. That’s the middle and sweet spot of their mount range for someone used to forward mounts.
The Bacon also features a multi radius sidecut like the Faction so more will to go straight yet initiates turns easily when desired. The CT 1.0 will be pretty close to the SFB as far as pulling you into a turn but far from how much a SL ski would. Find them more like wide twin tip GS type ski.

Find they have great pop when desired but you have to put more effort into them Vs a poppy SL ski.
Find they are like a car with speed sensitive power steering in that they are purposely not over sensitive at high speeds. Always takes a run or two swapping from carving skis to realize you have to put more pressure and force into them to really come alive.
Will happily motor along with more finesse but if you aggressively ski with more power, they hit a second gear and give your power right back. Very tailored towards the way Candide skis the hill.

Remember seeing a review of the Prodigy 3 skis(which are much softer tip/tail but similar radius) and the person had never skied Factions before. He commented “You can kinda see why Candide skis so fast and doesn’t die” and I agree! Haha
 

EG-NJ

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@EG-NJ You will have a great time at -1.5cm from CT on the CT 1.0 being used to the SFB ski. That’s the middle and sweet spot of their mount range for someone used to forward mounts.
The Bacon also features a multi radius sidecut like the Faction so more will to go straight yet initiates turns easily when desired. The CT 1.0 will be pretty close to the SFB as far as pulling you into a turn but far from how much a SL ski would. Find them more like wide twin tip GS type ski.

Find they have great pop when desired but you have to put more effort into them Vs a poppy SL ski.
Find they are like a car with speed sensitive power steering in that they are purposely not over sensitive at high speeds. Always takes a run or two swapping from carving skis to realize you have to put more pressure and force into them to really come alive.
Will happily motor along with more finesse but if you aggressively ski with more power, they hit a second gear and give your power right back. Very tailored towards the way Candide skis the hill.

Remember seeing a review of the Prodigy 3 skis(which are much softer tip/tail but similar radius) and the person had never skied Factions before. He commented “You can kinda see why Candide skis so fast and doesn’t die” and I agree! Haha
Years ago I had a pair of 168cm 64mm Salomon SL as my "all mountain" single quiver... how times have changed. I did love that tail pop, and never had to angulate as deeply as that spectacular corduroy GS carve recently posted by 4ster (which looks awesome but painful, kinda like when watching someone telemark).

Viewed side by side with the SFB and my 83mm full-camber rock skis, the 1.0 has a much more subtle hourglass shape and a comparatively straight midsection. So your observations about high speed stability and carve initiation make total sense.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose -2.0 vs -1.5? Did you try both mounts, and if so, what were the nuances/tradeoffs?
 
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GregK

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Years ago I had a pair of 168cm 64mm Salomon SL as my "all mountain" single quiver... how times have changed. I did love that tail pop, and never had to angulate as deeply as that spectacular corduroy GS carve recently posted by 4ster (which looks awesome but painful, kinda like when watching someone telemark).

Viewed side by side with the SFB and my 83mm full-camber rock skis, the 1.0 has a much more subtle hourglass shape and a comparatively straight midsection. So your observations about high speed stability and carve initiation make total sense.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose -2.0 vs -1.5? Did you try both mounts, and if so, what were the nuances/tradeoffs?
Chose -2cm rather than the -1.5cm as usually use with my CT as these had the most forward factory mount and moving them back a hair will make them a touch more stable there.
Don’t have demo bindings on them but lots of experience moving mounts around on previous skis. -4cm from Center a common mount with all mountain freestyle skis.
 

False_Anomaly

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Saw that a random ski shop in Michigan has some faction skis, and got these for 400 yesterday.
IMG_20221120_123713_edit_691367452022108.jpg
Mounted on the line, but I can go as far back as 2.5 and these are substantial amount of ski for me. I guess its worth taking buses and amtrak on a midwest snowing day to acquire them (yes, carless)?
 
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GregK

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Saw that a random ski shop in Michigan has some faction skis, and got these for 400 yesterday. View attachment 183598 Mounted on the line, but I can go as far back as 2.5 and these are substantial amount of ski for me. I guess its worth taking buses and amtrak on a midwest snowing day to acquire them (yes, carless)?
Those look in great shape so a great deal at $400 including bindings. If they are a long ski for you, go closer to the CT mark. Mine are great at -1.5cm from CT mark.
 

Tony Storaro

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Saw that a random ski shop in Michigan has some faction skis, and got these for 400 yesterday. View attachment 183598 Mounted on the line, but I can go as far back as 2.5 and these are substantial amount of ski for me. I guess its worth taking buses and amtrak on a midwest snowing day to acquire them (yes, carless)?

Darth Vader getting ready for the ground assault on Hoth. :ogbiggrin:

BADASS combination!
 

ilovepugs

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Ok, so recap: I bought the 2021 CT 1.0s in 158cm and mounted Atomic Warden bindings.

Took them out on early season hardpack at Sugarbush. My first impression is that these skis are too burly for my weak early season legs, but with time I will probably like the dampness of them and how reliable they felt on scraped off, icy snow. I had to work hard to feel like I was bending the skis and my legs were shot after one short green run. To be fair, I already had some delayed onset muscle soreness in the legs from light squatting and medium deadlifting yesterday… yeah… that’s it.


Gonna get on my skinnier skis for now and set these aside while I ramp up for the season. I don’t think they’re coming to Banff with me this week. But I’m looking forward to breaking them in more once I’ve broken myself in a bit.
 

mikes781

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If anyone wants a new CT 2.0 in 178cm (flat) for $450 with free shipping, the other day I noticed one lonely pair left on the rack at a nearby NJ ski shop that still is listed as available online. https://www.dandq.com/product/facti...ue&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=217

Nice little shop… right around the corner from me. :thumb:

Finally mounted bindings on my CT 1.0s and went -3.0. Just need to get wax on them and will hopefully get to try them out on Friday. Was a busy off season and have a few new skis to try… all completely different. :D
223CCCC7-9DDB-4CDC-AFAE-F275140DDF70.jpeg
 

EG-NJ

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Nice little shop… right around the corner from me. :thumb:

Finally mounted bindings on my CT 1.0s and went -3.0. Just need to get wax on them and will hopefully get to try them out on Friday. Was a busy off season and have a few new skis to try… all completely different. :D
View attachment 183646
That quiver doesn't look like it's headed for the Poconos.
 
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GregK

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@ilovepugs Sounding like another edge high ski to me. You never had these stone ground yet correct? The 158cm length would be tailored to a light skier using that length so are sounding like way more work than they should be.
Edge high/railed ski will be harder to pivot, harder to get on or off edge and will feel heavier and more demanding.

If you don’t have a local place that could check them out, Lake Louise has a fully automated machine there that can do a full tune while you’re having lunch. No places in Banff anymore and have heard mediocre reviews on the Sunshine Village tuning place.
 
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GregK

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Nice little shop… right around the corner from me. :thumb:

Finally mounted bindings on my CT 1.0s and went -3.0. Just need to get wax on them and will hopefully get to try them out on Friday. Was a busy off season and have a few new skis to try… all completely different. :D
View attachment 183646
Looking good! Be sure to adjust the AFD height up on those Attacks before skiing them.
 

ilovepugs

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@ilovepugs Sounding like another edge high ski to me. You never had these stone ground yet correct? The 158cm length would be tailored to a light skier using that length so are sounding like way more work than they should be.
Edge high/railed ski will be harder to pivot, harder to get on or off edge and will feel heavier and more demanding.

If you don’t have a local place that could check them out, Lake Louise has a fully automated machine there that can do a full tune while you’re having lunch. No places in Banff anymore and have heard mediocre reviews on the Sunshine Village tuning place.
I’ve had them stone ground. Hmm. Let me get back to you in 3-4 weeks and tell you if I still feel like they’re too demanding.
 
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