The Never-Ending Faction Discussion

[GregK]

Saw from a Newschooler post that a dealer that has some of Candide’s new line has some of the 101mm wide/CT 2.0 replacements and said the flex is more similar to the pre-21 versions. So much softer tip and tail and the 184cm version weighs only 1800gr so WAY LIGHTER than the 2300gr 21 183cm CT 2.0.

At that weight, even the current Mana 2 is heavier. Something like the Unleashed 98 or Blackops 98 looks like better options for those wanting something more substantial still.

 

[EG-NJ]

The CT 2.0 is a little heavier than the CT 1.0 and a metre longer turn radius along with the further back mount as you mentioned. So the 173cm CT 2.0 would still be a great option if you mount back a bit still from the CT mark. The 178cm even forward would fell like a lot more ski so it might not be as playful still as you like. Would definitely float and charge harder though!

I bet you notice the weight difference between the 2.0 and 1.0 (which are bad enough) when lugging them around. They're even heavier than the wider 3.0 due to the beefier construction. Ugh.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

Does anyone have any feedback on the Dancer 4? Has anyone tried those in deep POW? They look sweet!

I have been eyeing them too.... absolutely love my D3s so ....might not be a bad purchase

 

[EG-NJ]

Evo released a 2024 gear preview, including Faction. Sounds like the models will remain essentially unchanged from 2023. And for all you Line fans (i.e. me), the SFBs have been redesigned (now called just the "Bacon") with two width choices. The Chronic has been stiffened for en piste performance and also comes in two widths. Curious how they'd compare to the Prodigy and Mana series, not to mention Candide's new lineup. https://www.evo.com/discover/ski/gear-preview

 

[EG-NJ]

Also, I just noticed that in 2023 Line introduced the Blade Optic series with a layer of metal. Since the CT 1.0 is no longer available, the Blade Optic 96 (not the 92, which is entry level without metal) may be a good alternative to it or the Rustler. Tips and tails are a bit softer with more rocker than the 1.0, but still stout underfoot. The 104 and 114 are wider and even beefier. Not a true twin, but very progressive with a mount -5.4 from center (fairly close to how many of you ski the 1.0). Blister and others offer favorable reviews. https://www.skiessentials.com/Chair...ade-optic-collection-introduction-and-review/

 

[locknload]

Faction skis have always designed and engineered their skis in Verbier, Switzerland but source out the actually manufacturing of their skis. In the beginning, the manufacturing plants were smaller and had variable build quality issues back then. Since about 2018/19 they have used larger manufacturing facilities for their skis and build quality got much better. For many of us on this thread(especially myself!), the big change came when they moved to the Fisher plants for manufacturing in 21 and decided to overbuild the CT line to put all the durability issues in the past. The 21 CT were much heavier, stiffer and more damp than any previous versions. Weren't a huge sales success as the target market(SkiTalk and TGR members) didn't know about them and lovers of the previous versions(Newschoolers) thought they were too heavy and stiff.
Faction moved their Manufacturing to the Amer/Atomic plant for 22 onward and the 21 CT shapes remained the same but they went back to lighter builds in them. So they are still well built, high performance skis but don't have the same quiet, damp and solid feel of the 21 versions. In 23 they renamed the CT line the Mana line when Candide left Faction, so the 22 CT 2.0 and CT 3.0 are now just renamed Mana 2 and Mana 3 but the same skis with different top sheets. They dropped the 22 CT 1.0(was actually just a 22 Prodigy 1.0 with different top sheet) and CT 5.0 as that was "Candide's official ski" and replaced it with the Mana 4 as their widest ski in the range now.

Prodigy line is the more playful, more tapered line line that most freestyle skiers and team riders switched to when the CT got heavier and stiffer. So the CT/Mana line is the "more precise" twin and Prodigy is the "more playful" one now.
The Dictator/Dancer is the flat tailed, more traditional ski with 2 thin sheets of metal for those wanting a solid ski thats still has a more playful feel than their heavier competition.

In your desired width range of around 100mm, the 21 CT2.0 is a fantastic ski that fun on or off piste and never out of place regardless of conditions. The issue is its hard to find now! The 22 CT 2.0 or 23 Mana 2 are the same shape just lighter and less damp. In this width range there are some current skis that I'd probably prefer to the 22 Faction CT 2.0/Mana 2 like the Nordica Unleashed 98 and the Rossignol Blackops 98. Both have a low taper/long effective edge shape and both have some metal in increase torsional rigidity. The BO98 has rubber tip/tail like the 21 CT 2.0 to damp and quiet the ski. Both are around the same weight as current Mana 2(around 2000gr in the 180ish cm length) vs around 2300gr in the 21 CT 2.0 183cm. Both those skis are available on deals too if you can't find a 21 CT 2.0 anywhere. Did see a Quebec place with stock on the 178cm 21 CT 2.0 but not sure if they ship to the States or not.

Such a great summary and run down, GregK. Thank you!

 

[GregK]

bet you notice the weight difference between the 2.0 and 1.0 (which are bad enough) when lugging them around. They're even heavier than the wider 3.0 due to the beefier construction. Ugh.

Ugh? You mean “Oh ya!!!” on their weight! Haha
CT 1.0 and CT 2.0 have very similar swing weight and feel. The CT 3.0 seems way lighter as its swing weight is lower without the rubber tip/tail.

Weight is your friend for resort skiing and would love if the CT 3.0 had the rubber damping tip/tail which would add more weight to them and make them more quiet.
With my 2500gr Blackops 118, I don’t find them heavy to ski and only notice their weight when carrying. Most carving skis with plates and metal bindings are heavier overall than a Blackops 118 with Attacks.

 

[GregK]

Evo released a 2024 gear preview, including Faction. Sounds like the models will remain essentially unchanged from 2023. And for all you Line fans (i.e. me), the SFBs have been redesigned (now called just the "Bacon") with two width choices. The Chronic has been stiffened for en piste performance and also comes in two widths. Curious how they'd compare to the Prodigy and Mana series, not to mention Candide's new lineup. https://www.evo.com/discover/ski/gear-preview

Thought of you when I saw the 24 Bacon 108 as it’s a return to a heavier but softer more playful ski like the SFB of 2015 but with less taper. Should be a playful ski that can actually carve decently.

Blade Optic are similar in flex to the new Bacons and 2 Chronic with soft tips/tails and solid underfoot and get more substantial as they get wider. The CT or Mana will all be much stiffer tip/tail but softer underfoot.

So the Optic 96 would be similar to a Prodigy 2 but lighter and less stable at speed. Similar to the Rustler though it bet.
Optic 104 gets into the Enforcer 104 weight range but wished they had stiffer tips/tails for heavier or hard charging skiers.
Even the Optic 114 has pretty soft tips/tails and doesn’t have the carving or crud ability of a Blackops 118. Might be more comparable to the new Nordica Unleashed 114 or Revolt 114 though.

 

[EG-NJ]

Thought of you when I saw the 24 Bacon 108 as it’s a return to a heavier but softer more playful ski like the SFB of 2015 but with less taper. Should be a playful ski that can actually carve decently.

Blade Optic are similar in flex to the new Bacons and 2 Chronic with soft tips/tails and solid underfoot and get more substantial as they get wider. The CT or Mana will all be much stiffer tip/tail but softer underfoot.

So the Optic 96 would be similar to a Prodigy 2 but lighter and less stable at speed. Similar to the Rustler though it bet.
Optic 104 gets into the Enforcer 104 weight range but wished they had stiffer tips/tails for heavier or hard charging skiers.
Even the Optic 114 has pretty soft tips/tails and doesn’t have the carving or crud ability of a Blackops 118. Might be more comparable to the new Nordica Unleashed 114 or Revolt 114 though.

Speaking of Rustler, for 2024 it underwent design and construction changes that sound interesting. Now the titanal is along the topsheet edges rather than down the middle, plus rocker and flex patterns are refined. The photo in this preview show the new construction. Sounds like the 10 is the sweetspot for overall versatility. Otherwise, the rest of the Blizzard lineup is largely unchanged. https://www.powder7.com/ski-blog/blizzard-skis-preview/

 

[GregK]

Speaking of Rustler, for 2024 it underwent design and construction changes that sound interesting. Now the titanal is along the topsheet edges rather than down the middle, plus rocker and flex patterns are refined. The photo in this preview show the new construction. Sounds like the 10 is the sweetspot for overall versatility. Otherwise, the rest of the Blizzard lineup is largely unchanged. https://www.powder7.com/ski-blog/blizzard-skis-preview/

Saw they were being redone with more metal and was hoping they would be heavier next year. Also thought they would also increase their turn radius a bit as they did not like speed unless it was the Rustler 11. Instead they are all lighter than the current models and the turning radius are unchanged. No thanks…..

 

[EG-NJ]

Saw they were being redone with more metal and was hoping they would be heavier next year. Also thought they would also increase their turn radius a bit as they did not like speed unless it was the Rustler 11. Instead they are all lighter than the current models and the turning radius are unchanged. No thanks…..

The reviews always mention that if the Brahma and Bonafide are too demanding for someone, then the Rustler is their better choice. Seems they are targeting lighter and/or more relaxed skiers who want just a tad more beef than non-metal options. So I'd be curious to demo a pair if the opportunity arose but totally get why you're disappointed.

 

[ski otter 2]

There are recent skis that have tried to split the difference here, and have "just a tad more beef" - and precision - "than non-metal options,"
while specifically going for a more lightweight construction.

The Salomon Stance line, the Nordica Unleashed line, and the Line Blade Optics line are three that come to mind.

Overall, these are just too lightweight for me, in the models I've demoed. But they do succeed on some level, for some skiers.
There are so many of them in each line that I've not been able to ski nearly all of them, so some of them may be better skis than
I am aware of: the Line Blade Optic 104 and especially 114 may be candidates for this, I'm told.
But so far I have not found one of them that I like all that much.
(To me, the Brahmas, Bonafide and Kendos are just dead easy to ski already - not demanding in their current versions,
in most conditions and terrain - just so dialed in; so I'm not the one, I guess.)

 

[Tony Storaro]

So it was about time to take these out for a spin:

The only new for this season ski in my quiver I hadn't tested yet.

Just look at this beauty:

Yep. E-M-P-T-Y! Man I love end of March.

So, about the ski-as I spent the last 4 weeks skiing my FIS SL ski almost exclusively the initial thoughts were: Jeez these are FAT!
A thought wholeheartedly shared by the racer kids who were about the only living souls on the slopes today. A wee bastard was even cheeky enough to explain to me that the fun park was in the other part of the resort...

Not gonna lie, it took me a few runs to readjust to ski almost twice as wide as my daily drivers and initially it felt like I jumped from a jet ski to a barge. Then it went smoothly and the barge turned if not to a speedboat then something like cruiser yacht-comfy and fast...ish.

These are definitely lighter on your feet than the CT 1.0, easier to flick around, very stable. I pulled some of that Daryl Morrison stuff until my right knee reminded me I weigh like two darylmorrisons and am twice her age. Carving is doable but sorta pointless on these.
The sweet spot was found when I skied them like Candide (yeah right, almost)- I mean, feet close together, not much turning, lotsa speed.

The tip chatter is very noticeable on hard snow and also they are noisier than the 1.0.

Unlike the Wildcats 108 the 3.0 can be skied and be fun at way lower speeds.

All in all-excellent ski, don't regret buying them. For my use the CT 1.0 are vastly superior but these will find their use in fresh snow and a bit of powder.

 

[GregK]

There are recent skis that have tried to split the difference here, and have "just a tad more beef" - and precision - "than non-metal options,"
while specifically going for a more lightweight construction.

The Salomon Stance line, the Nordica Unleashed line, and the Line Blade Optics line are three that come to mind.

Overall, these are just too lightweight for me, in the models I've demoed. But they do succeed on some level, for some skiers.
There are so many of them in each line that I've not been able to ski nearly all of them, so some of them may be better skis than
I am aware of: the Line Blade Optic 104 and especially 114 may be candidates for this, I'm told.
But so far I have not found one of them that I like all that much.
(To me, the Brahmas, Bonafide and Kendos are just dead easy to ski already - not demanding in their current versions,
in most conditions and terrain - just so dialed in; so I'm not the one, I guess.)

Agree that a lot of these “middle weight” skis aren’t for me either. The Stance like the Blade Optic get beefier as they go wider but like the narrower Enforcer skis, I wished the Stance skis had less taper for more grip in their under 100mm models.
Stance are a nice option for those wanting a less demanding Enforcer I guess. I’d prefer the more stable, better gripping Faction Dancers myself.

The Unleashed models have fantastic shapes and much prefer their profiles over the Enforcers. If they had just a bit more weight(especially the 98) and a bit longer turn radius, they would be great playful chargers.

 

[GregK]

So it was about time to take these out for a spin:

View attachment 198406

The only new for this season ski in my quiver I hadn't tested yet.

Just look at this beauty:

View attachment 198407


Yep. E-M-P-T-Y! Man I love end of March.

So, about the ski-as I spent the last 4 weeks skiing my FIS SL ski almost exclusively the initial thoughts were: Jeez these are FAT!
A thought wholeheartedly shared by the racer kids who were about the only living souls on the slopes today. A wee bastard was even cheeky enough to explain to me that the fun park was in the other part of the resort...

Not gonna lie, it took me a few runs to readjust to ski almost twice as wide as my daily drivers and initially it felt like I jumped from a jet ski to a barge. Then it went smoothly and the barge turned if not to a speedboat then something like cruiser yacht-comfy and fast...ish.

These are definitely lighter on your feet than the CT 1.0, easier to flick around, very stable. I pulled some of that Daryl Morrison stuff until my right knee reminded me I weigh like two darylmorrisons and am twice her age. Carving is doable but sorta pointless on these.
The sweet spot was found when I skied them like Candide (yeah right, almost)- I mean, feet close together, not much turning, lotsa speed.

The tip chatter is very noticeable on hard snow and also they are noisier than the 1.0.

Unlike the Wildcats 108 the 3.0 can be skied and be fun at way lower speeds.

All in all-excellent ski, don't regret buying them. For my use the CT 1.0 are vastly superior but these will find their use in fresh snow and a bit of powder.

Glad you finally got out on them but sounds like a pretty firm day still if they were that much work. The start of a cold morning Spring day when it’s still firm or refrozen is when skis like this feel their most out of place. If you’re hearing “tip chatter on hard snow” maybe wait a bit before pulling out the 112mm skis…..

I’m sure if you first tried them when things were softer, there would have been less learning curve and you’d be carving better than any Curated skier! Haha
Shocking how well they carve.

Tomorrow it’s going to be -3C here to start but plus 3C by noon. The CT 1.0 or CT 2.0 will come out first and I’ll swap to the CT 3.0 at lunch. The CT 3.0 could definitely survive the first few hours on the firmer snow but easier and more fun on the narrower ones.

Try them again when it’s actually soft or with new snow and I guarantee you’ll like them way more!

 

[Tony Storaro]

Glad you finally got out on them but sounds like a pretty firm day still if they were that much work. The start of a cold morning Spring day when it’s still firm or refrozen is when skis like this feel their most out of place. If you’re hearing “tip chatter on hard snow” maybe wait a bit before pulling out the 112mm skis…..

I’m sure if you first tried them when things were softer, there would have been less learning curve and you’d be carving better than any Curated skier! Haha
Shocking how well they carve.

Tomorrow it’s going to be -3C here to start but plus 3C by noon. The CT 1.0 or CT 2.0 will come out first and I’ll swap to the CT 3.0 at lunch. The CT 3.0 could definitely survive the first few hours on the firmer snow but easier and more fun on the narrower ones.

Try them again when it’s actually soft or with new snow and I guarantee you’ll like them way more!

Yes it started firm but I was too eager to try them to wait until it softens up. Hard snow is definitely not their forte. When it softened up later in the day they were real nice.
Their carving ability or the lack of it is of no concern to me, I have plenty of true carvers, these will serve different purpose.
Tomorrow or the day after I am pulling out my CT 1.0 just to remind myself how awesome they are. It is gonna be all Faction end of season.

By the way, they weren't much work, it is just that when putting them on high edge you feel their width and the knees are not very happy. When not attempting high edge angles these are very easy to ski. I find the FIS SL MUCH more difficult to ski in heavy wet snow than these.

 

[GregK]

By the way, they weren't much work, it is just that when putting them on high edge you feel their width and the knees are not very happy.

Just meant this is what caused the longer learning curve and why you weren’t as floored as you would have been from the start. When a wider ski can’t easily dig in to the snow, your knees and mind won’t love it and you ski more timid on them.
Went through this last week as the temps didn’t rise like they were supposed to and I was only had my CT 3.0 and BO 118 with me. Didn’t love either first thing and wasn’t skiing very well. As it warmed up, I felt more confident laying them over and both absolutely RIPPED in the afternoon.

I’d try them again when it softens up after starting on firmer snow on your CT 1.0. You’ll will discover how fun it is to carve those 112mm skis through soft snow once you trust them more. Spring skiing is my favourite time of the year and the CT 3.0 one of my favourite skis for these conditions.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Just meant this is what caused the longer learning curve and why you weren’t as floored as you would have been from the start. When a wider ski can’t easily dig in to the snow, your knees and mind won’t love it and you ski more timid on them.
Went through this last week as the temps didn’t rise like they were supposed to and I was only had my CT 3.0 and BO 118 with me. Didn’t love either first thing and wasn’t skiing very well. As it warmed up, I felt more confident laying them over and both absolutely RIPPED in the afternoon.

I’d try them again when it softens up after starting on firmer snow on your CT 1.0. You’ll will discover how fun it is to carve those 112mm skis through soft snow once you trust them more. Spring skiing is my favourite time of the year and the CT 3.0 one of my favourite skis for these conditions.

The only problem with all this man is I have the 1.0. And they are VERY VERY difficult to beat. A ski that punches WAY above its weight. I will keep skiing the 3.0 of course but for the snow/slopes I ski, the 1.0 is the perfect spring ski. Only SR95s can rival them.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

Busted out the Dancer 2 182s at Palisades on Sunday. As expected, they ski like a smaller Dancer 3 with quicker edge to edge. It is still early but I can say the m6's (184) turn initiation and edge hold is definitely better while the Dancer 2 felt easier to use in the steep off piste due to it feeling looser. Easier to jump the Dancer too! Excited to use it more this season on my mixed days. If I am mainly on piste, I will probably be using the m6

 

[GregK]

The only problem with all this man is I have the 1.0. And they are VERY VERY difficult to beat. A ski that punches WAY above its weight. I will keep skiing the 3.0 of course but for the snow/slopes I ski, the 1.0 is the perfect spring ski. Only SR95s can rival them.

See, that’s how I know you haven’t seen their potential yet as the CT 1.0 is not as good as the CT 2.0 and the CT 3.0 is better still when things get soft in the Spring. The long, low rise tip rocker(similar to the SR 95 but much stiffer flex) of the CT 3.0 allows it to more easily pass over things along with its increased stability make it awesome in soft snow. And more fun at lower speeds than our Wildcats while gripping the odd refrozen sections better too.

Find the whole point of quivers is have the appropriate ski for the conditions and not have to change your style of skiing. I’m carving my wide skis in soft snow like I carve my narrower skis in firmer snow. So a person who likes to carve narrower skis should care how well the CT 3.0 can carve in softer snow as they do it better much better than most skis much narrower.

Will start my day tomorrow ripping on the CT 1.0 and by lunchtime when it’s getting warm and really bumpy, I’ll swap to the even easier CT 3.0 and continue skiing at the same pace and style.