TheArchitect

Working to improve all the time
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never heard of bogner, Kjus is pretty big here though.

WRT-ST 180's are raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare @Tony Storaro , I've got autosearch auto on them, but not paying retail.

Here are some 180's but stupidly expensive.

https://www.corbetts.com/2022-Stöckli-laser-wrt-st-skis-w-wrt-12-ff-bindings/
 

TahoeWarrior

Booting up
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Joined
Feb 28, 2020
Posts
44
Location
Lake Tahoe
Want to get new skis for my 2 sons, 5’9 140lbs and 5’11 160. We ski out west mostly Mammoth. They ski 80/20 on/off piste. They are advanced intermediate skiers. Debating between AR, AX and SR 88 or any other recommendations. What length ski? If AR, thinking 168cm and 175cm. Which bindings would you recommend? Is there any changes to AR and AX 20/21 model compare to 21/22 model besides cosmetics? TIA
John - here's my 2 cents on your question. First off, I am very familar with Mammoth having grown up skiing there; now I pretty much only ski Tahoe (Alpine Meadows & Pali (squaw)). I own the AR, have skied with AX quite a bit, and only skied the SR88 once.

Between the 3, it's a sliding scale tradeoff between on and off piste. The SR88 is the best "all around" and is likely a tad more forgiving....a great generalist that competes with a slew of good all (front side) mountain skis on the market (ex. Enforcer 88, Brahma) albeit with the classic Stöckli feel and look; for those off piste moments this ski will do well and still can carve up the mountain. Between the AR vs AX, I spent nearly a year debating the virtues of these two skis; both fantastic and both faster more carving oriented vs the SR. The AR is faster, more demanding (ie, requires a higher skill to get the best out of the ski but you feel that good energy back too), and IMO it slices through chop and soft off piste areas with more leadership. BUT, because it's stiffer, the AR will be inferior to the AX in tight trees or bumps. The AX has a big following for a reason, it's more approachable yet still very fast and carves amazing when pushed. Last year to this year, the skis are the same other than cosmetic.

I'm an advanced, slightly aggressive skier. I demo'ed the 175 in all skis. I'm 5'7, 140lbs, and after long debate ended up staying conservative on sizing and own the AR in 168; however, I would have very likely done 175 in AX (since I thought this ski was less demanding and I would only use it on piste - I have other skis for off piste - my AR is my no speed limit hot lap ski and it really excels at that!!).

It sounds like your sons will be best on one of each 168 for the lighter kid and 175 for the bigger. For On Piste nothing will be more rewarding in Mammoth than either the AR or AX; but indeed, it could be that an SR could be a better fit IF, big IF, you all end up off piste (or if they do more and more with friends, etc). There are alot of good skis on the market. It's all personal preference. If I only had one SKi, while I LOVE my AR, it just doesn't work as well as my proper all mountain skis in powder, tight hop turn situations, or when in the air (all of which I strive to find); but I LOVE the AR for carving the corduroy. I would not compare the SR to the AR/AX; rather decide which ski group is a better fit then go down that path; and if they don't love to push the ski hard to feel it flex and feel your quads hurt, than perhaps the AX is a better fit. Again, I love my AR, but I am aggressive and love to push it. Good luck
 
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TheArchitect

Working to improve all the time
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Metrowest Boston
The price is in CDN $$, US $ price is $1630, so essentially MSRP similar to what you will find in most Stöckli dealers right now.

Yeah, I was aware of that but still stupidly expensive. I think I have a $1,500 threshold for "stupidly" ogsmile
 

dbostedo

Asst. Gathermeister
Moderator
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Feb 9, 2016
Posts
11,043
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Nor. Virginia, USA
Yeah, I was aware of that but still stupidly expensive. I think I have a $1,500 threshold for "stupidly" ogsmile
Buy the skis flat under $1500, then buy bindings a little bit later as a separate purchase.... et voila! You've stayed under your limit.
 

John Y

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Jan 12, 2022
Posts
5
Location
Los Angeles
John - here's my 2 cents on your question. First off, I am very familar with Mammoth having grown up skiing there; now I pretty much only ski Tahoe (Alpine Meadows & Pali (squaw)). I own the AR, have skied with AX quite a bit, and only skied the SR88 once.

Between the 3, it's a sliding scale tradeoff between on and off piste. The SR88 is the best "all around" and is likely a tad more forgiving....a great generalist that competes with a slew of good all (front side) mountain skis on the market (ex. Enforcer 88, Brahma) albeit with the classic Stöckli feel and look; for those off piste moments this ski will do well and still can carve up the mountain. Between the AR vs AX, I spent nearly a year debating the virtues of these two skis; both fantastic and both faster more carving oriented vs the SR. The AR is faster, more demanding (ie, requires a higher skill to get the best out of the ski but you feel that good energy back too), and IMO it slices through chop and soft off piste areas with more leadership. BUT, because it's stiffer, the AR will be inferior to the AX in tight trees or bumps. The AX has a big following for a reason, it's more approachable yet still very fast and carves amazing when pushed. Last year to this year, the skis are the same other than cosmetic.

I'm an advanced, slightly aggressive skier. I demo'ed the 175 in all skis. I'm 5'7, 140lbs, and after long debate ended up staying conservative on sizing and own the AR in 168; however, I would have very likely done 175 in AX (since I thought this ski was less demanding and I would only use it on piste - I have other skis for off piste - my AR is my no speed limit hot lap ski and it really excels at that!!).

It sounds like your sons will be best on one of each 168 for the lighter kid and 175 for the bigger. For On Piste nothing will be more rewarding in Mammoth than either the AR or AX; but indeed, it could be that an SR could be a better fit IF, big IF, you all end up off piste (or if they do more and more with friends, etc). There are alot of good skis on the market. It's all personal preference. If I only had one SKi, while I LOVE my AR, it just doesn't work as well as my proper all mountain skis in powder, tight hop turn situations, or when in the air (all of which I strive to find); but I LOVE the AR for carving the corduroy. I would not compare the SR to the AR/AX; rather decide which ski group is a better fit then go down that path; and if they don't love to push the ski hard to feel it flex and feel your quads hurt, than perhaps the AX is a better fit. Again, I love my AR, but I am aggressive and love to push it. Good luck
TahoeWarrior- Thank you for your very informative reply! Narrowing down between AR and AX. From other reviews, thought AR was more forgiving. My older son(5’9 140) is a little more mellow with his skiing, younger son skateboarder (5’11 160) is more aggressive and likes to ski faster. Maybe AX 168 for older and AR 175 for my younger son.

They both ski a little too upright and not lean forward enough. Do you recommend mounting binding forward of line so they can ski more on forward part of ski to help initiate turns and ski better? Bindings that’s best for their size and ski to maximize performance and safety?
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
7,238
Location
Maine
Want to get new skis for my 2 sons, 5’9 140lbs and 5’11 160. We ski out west mostly Mammoth. They ski 80/20 on/off piste. They are advanced intermediate skiers. Debating between AR, AX and SR 88 or any other recommendations. What length ski? If AR, thinking 168cm and 175cm. Which bindings would you recommend? Is there any changes to AR and AX 20/21 model compare to 21/22 model besides cosmetics? TIA
I think you need another adult son. :wave: Clearly the ones you have are not enough of a drain on your bank account.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Posts
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So my point is, when someone says to me ( A Barbour sales man I am quoting) thank you for your business Mr. Storaro, see you again in 25 years for a new Beaufort jacket)… what can I say…I am totally sold.:ogbiggrin:
Love this. I can't decide if you or John Y is my long lost patron. Maybe he can buy the skis and you can buy the outerwear.

On the other hand I'll bet Prince Andrew has his Barbour pieces for, you know, walking the moorlands, so... nevermind.
 

Tony Storaro

Glorified Tobogganer
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Europe
On the other hand I'll bet Prince Andrew has his Barbour pieces for, you know, walking the moorlands, so... nevermind.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Barbour jackets (the classic ones) are relatively inexpensive, or indeed-dirt cheap compared to our modern Gore Tex ski clothing. You can have a Beaufort for about 350 euros and it will be alive and kicking loooooong after all the fancy, flashy ski jackets have been deposed to the local cemetery.
On the flip-side, if you are seen in one of them in London, you will surely be asked about this year's crop in Midlands, was the pheasant shoot good today and did the salmon bite.:ogbiggrin: They have that unmistakable rural flair to them you know.

My biggest problem with them however is that they are not washable. And as I sweat a lot, I wear mine like 3 times a year, which means my grandkids will wear it too.

Anyway, they have nothing price-wise on...yes, sorry but here we go again-Stöckli who decided that 1000 euros is a good price for a jacket. And as the damn thing has something unique to it, something that I haven't seen on other ski jackets-back pockets where I can keep my cat tracks (or an odd pheasant) and is also stretchy, I must admit I am looking more and more often at it.:(:(
Good thing is it is unavailable.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
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never heard of bogner

Just in case you didn't do your home work.

There had been numerous innovation through out ski history. Probably none more important than Maria Bogner and her stretch pants. Forever changing the image of skiing. Sex sells.
 

Frank Ricard

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Jan 11, 2022
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38
Location
AZ
Ahhh, dead bird. More marketing BS. Glad there are skiers buying it.

Talked to a group of 4 skiers who was at PT last week. It was dumping a mixture of wet snow, freezing rain and liquid snow. The two wearing dead bird were soaked through at the end of the day. The Bogner/Kjus couple? They were as dry inside. The dead bird people put in a call to Mamie for their next soft good purchase. Nothing clears the BS like real world performance comparison.

This is better performing than Arcteryx?

At what? Looking good at your favorite après ski lounge? :D
 

dovski

Waxing my skis and praying for snow
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Jan 7, 2018
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Seattle

This is better performing than Arcteryx?

At what? Looking good at your favorite après ski lounge? :D
I am not sure that a leather ski jackets is in the cards for anyone in the PNW ... :roflmao:
 

Tony Storaro

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I am not sure that a leather ski jackets is in the cards for anyone in the PNW ... :roflmao:

"Stylish performance"! Stylish being the key. :ogbiggrin:

But to be fair to them, there are jackets, that look interesting and that are priced the same as Arcteryx, Patagonia etc, like this one:



But anyway, lets not get Bogged down on Bogner (see what I did here?) and take a look at this beauty:

1642332278519.png



On the plus side:

Removable hood
Almost no insulation shell jacket
Back pockets
Many other pockets perfectly placed
Stretchy
Red (means fast)
It says Stöckli Racing Team on it :ogbiggrin: (Marko Odermatt, watch your back lad for we are coming for you).

On the negative side:

Price. 1050 eur for a ski jacket is a bit steep whichever way you look at it.

Main question: Does anyone have experience with Schoeller fabric and how does it compare to GTex? Better?Worse? Same?
 
Last edited:

anders_nor

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"Stylish performance"! Stylish being the key. :ogbiggrin:

But to be fair to them, there are jackets, that look interesting and that are priced the same as Arcteryx, Patagonia etc, like this one:



But anyway, lets not get Bogged down on Bogner (see what I did here?) and take a look at this beauty:

View attachment 155334


On the plus side:

Removable hood
Almost no insulation shell jacket
Back pockets
Many other pockets perfectly placed
Stretchy
Red (means fast)
It says Stöckli Racing Team on it :ogbiggrin: (Marko Odermatt, watch your back lad for we are coming for you).

On the negative side:

Price. 1050 eur for a ski jacket is a bit steep whichever way you look at it.

Main question: Does anyone have experience with Schoeller fabric and how does it compare to GTex? Better?Worse? Same?

I looked at that jacket in one of the local stores here that has Stöckli, seems nice, but you have to be DAMN GOOD to rep something like that imho. then there is the price :p
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
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This is better performing than Arcteryx?

At what? Looking good at your favorite après ski lounge? :D

Rather than going by market hype and other BS. Back to back personal evaluation is key. I have both Bogner and Arc. On cold NE days, Bogner wins hands down.
Until you have worn both extensively, you are just buying the BS spewed from afar.

I am not sure that a leather ski jackets is in the cards for anyone in the PNW ... :roflmao:

For the PNW you guys actually need the HH used on the crab boats. You guys are worried about wetting through in the rain. I like to ski where it actually snow.
Nothing wrong with the leather jacket. You'll be surprised how well it holds up to skiing. Mamie have a leather Bogner with 500+ days on it. EVen spent a season with it in W/B. No issues. Slightly worn, or as I call it - patina. Most forum members that attends gathering have seen it over the years. It is still one of her favorite jackets.

But to be fair to them, there are jackets, that look interesting and that are priced the same as Arcteryx, Patagonia etc, like this one:


Ahhh. you are looking at the wrong product line. Fire and Ice is the entry model line introduced to compete with Arc/Paty on a price point level. . A real Bogner starts at 2x Arc/Paty.

Honestly, can you say you had a ski jacket that held up well after 500+ ski days with minimal care?

As I said before, if you (generic) haven't worn both extensively, you are only channeling marketing and hype.
 
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