The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion

[Muleski]

Re: Doug Adams and his shop, Today's Edge, which was up on the Mountain Road on Stowe, I believe that he retired and sold off all of his tuning shop equipment about three years ago. Good guy, good work. But gone. I bought my first Stockli's from him...when we had our ski house and "ski base" in Stowe. Maybe 1993-4? Doug retired, Graham Lonetto gone....kind of sad.

Just for the serious Stockli fan boys here, who may think I don't "love" the skis, I have a bit of experience and history on them. HaHa. I still think that my four pairs of 184cm Stormrider Offroad XL's {all of which I skied 300-500 days} were absolute trailblazing skis at the time. And the serious big-boy powder skis of that generation were purpose built and pretty special.

This topic of beating them up.....base dings, core shots, possibly a bent to cracked edge, a cracked sidewall......all can and does happen, depending on where you ski and how much you do not "baby them." That can be painful with a $1500+ ski. Ouch.

My wife is a very, very good skier and she has a pair of AX, which were actually a gift. I have just one pair of Stockli these days, which get little use. Conditions need to right, crowds need to be very thin. A pair of World Cup {like actually skied on the WC} 193cm SX. Actually they have a 193cm top sheet, but measure 195cm. Pretty amazing. Not for everybody. Also a gift.

Thee were a number of small specialty shops in NE who handled Stockli, but when Nick Sprung was trying to figure out his best options, they parted ways.

You all probably know this, but perhaps the biggest challenge for Stockli USA in their earlier days was getting enough skis shipped from the factory. It was Avery small number {less than 5000 pairs, for sure}, and many were skis that were close to useless in short and long sizes. I mentioned the Stormrider Offroad XL, ^^^^. The ski was a great ski in a 184cm, and horrific in a 194cm. I think it was equally lousy in a 164cm. Just one example. Back in the old and early days. Before there was SkiTalk.

 

[Tony S]

That is true. To an extent. On crowded/technical terrain and between the SL gates, short turn ski win hands down.

But take the same ski to a wide open empty slope and try to beat someone who knows his way around a pair of GS ski.

Speed trap does not lie.

I don't think this is what KG is talking about.

 

[Tony S]

It would be a wonderful idea if Stöckli would present a list of competent, ski technicians/ tuners in the USA. Then the original side and base bevels for the different Stöckli ski models could be obtained, tweaked for individual likes and maintained.

I don't think we need Stockli to nominate great tuners. And we CERTAINLY don't need them to specify the angles, as has been discussed ad nauseam here. In fact Stockli might do well to let someone else nominate the great tuners and then hire them.

 

[justaute]

Owner of AX. Looking into 2022 SR88 and SR95. Utah (Snowbasin) is my home-resort and I also venture out to Snowbird and Sun Valley. Primarily a speedy groomer skier and am trying to get better off-piste. My more "powder" skis are Elan Ripstick 96 Black Edition and Nordica Enforcer 104 Free.

Thoughts on SR88 and SR95? Too much overlap between AX and SR88?

 

[dovski]

Owner of AX. Looking into 2022 SR88 and SR95. Utah (Snowbasin) is my home-resort and I also venture out to Snowbird and Sun Valley. Primarily a speedy groomer skier and am trying to get better off-piste. My more "powder" skis are Elan Ripstick 96 Black Edition and Nordica Enforcer 104 Free.

Thoughts on SR88 and SR95? Too much overlap between AX and SR88?

So I own all three skis and to be honest I rarely ski my SR88. Also the new SR95 has a much firmer tip making it a more precise ski which was a big difference between it and the SR88. When I ski Snowbird and Alta my SR95 is the perfect choice unless they get a massive 2+ foot dump of snow overnight, then I go for my pow skis. Now the real question is how does the SR95 compare to your Ripstick?

 

[laine]

Owner of AX. Looking into 2022 SR88 and SR95. Utah (Snowbasin) is my home-resort and I also venture out to Snowbird and Sun Valley. Primarily a speedy groomer skier and am trying to get better off-piste. My more "powder" skis are Elan Ripstick 96 Black Edition and Nordica Enforcer 104 Free.

Thoughts on SR88 and SR95? Too much overlap between AX and SR88?

So I own all three skis and to be honest I rarely ski my SR88. Also the new SR95 has a much firmer tip making it a more precise ski which was a big difference between it and the SR88. When I ski Snowbird and Alta my SR95 is the perfect choice unless they get a massive 2+ foot dump of snow overnight, then I go for my pow skis. Now the real question is how does the SR95 compare to your Ripstick?

I was wondering the same thing. I have the AX and demo’ed the Nela 88. Really liked it. Light, stiff, and damp, but with its lightness, it felt playful.

I’m going to demo the Nela 96 when we get a little more snow in Tahoe (it’s all groomers now, perfect for my AX). But wondering if there would be too much overlap between the AX and Nela 88. I do have a powder ski for the 6”+ storms.

 

[justaute]

So I own all three skis and to be honest I rarely ski my SR88. Also the new SR95 has a much firmer tip making it a more precise ski which was a big difference between it and the SR88. When I ski Snowbird and Alta my SR95 is the perfect choice unless they get a massive 2+ foot dump of snow overnight, then I go for my pow skis. Now the real question is how does the SR95 compare to your Ripstick?

yeah...SR95 and Ripstick BE would be a good comparison. Based on Skiessentials, the two are pretty close with the Ripstick BE being more "playful" and SR95 being more "stable" in chopped & crud.

These days, given the lack of snow in Utah, I've been on my AX just zipping down the slope. As mentioned before, I'm not much of an off-piste kinda guy (not good enough yet) and I really like laying down some good rail tracks and some fast turns. May be headed to Sun Valley in late February -- should visit the new Stockli store.

 

[Noodler]

Here is a SoothSki report to compare the skis at various lengths.

The flex data is interesting:

The long Elans are significantly stiffer logitudinally (bending stiffness). The SR95 is one of those interesting skis that will hand flex more in the "medium" realm, but it has a good amount of torsional stiffness to hold the edge. Unfortunately the longer 2022 SR95 is not in the database. That would be the better comparison.

 

[dovski]

yeah...SR95 and Ripstick BE would be a good comparison. Based on Skiessentials, the two are pretty close with the Ripstick BE being more "playful" and SR95 being more "stable" in chopped & crud.

These days, given the lack of snow in Utah, I've been on my AX just zipping down the slope. As mentioned before, I'm not much of an off-piste kinda guy (not good enough yet) and I really like laying down some good rail tracks and some fast turns. May be headed to Sun Valley in late February -- should visit the new Stöckli store.

I don’t have a fancy graph but this picture of last year’s and this year’s SR95 hanging side by side shows how much stiffer this year’s ski’s top is.

you can feel the difference when applying forward pressure as you enter each turn. New ski also gives much more feedback than last year’s

 

[cosmoliu]

Too much overlap between AX and SR88?

Yes.

 

[givethepigeye]

I know somebody who is selling their 2022 SR95s…..cough.….cough. They really are good for what you are descridling. Newer tail snape helps on-piste.

 

[BmbrMcGnrly]

Just a bump for my last question - does anyone know if there are changes from last years Laser GS to this years model? Thanks!

 

[Tony S]

wondering if there would be too much overlap between the AX and Nela 88

I'm almost but not quite qualified to take a stab at this one. I skied for a day on the AX @ 168cm. I own the immediate predecessor of the Nela 88 @ 168cm.

My personal take - which I concede is not the party line - is that the AX is another nice mid-70s groomer ski. Now, mine did not have a great tune, so take that into consideration. I didn't think it was fundamentally that different from, say, the Head Rally or the Blossom Whiteout. In particular I didn't think it was all that friendly in bumps, unlike some other regulars here.

Meanwhile the pre-Nela Motion 85 with a good tune is very rewarding in arced turns on groomers as long as they aren't rock hard, and also has a cunning gradual tip shape and flex that is superb in shallow 3D snow and anything but deep trenchy moguls. The tail is not a beginner tail, if you will, but that's part of what makes it solid in a real carve.

So my choice for my tastes and turf would be to go with the Nela 88 and then get a narrower hard-snow specialist ski for those groomers-only days.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Just a bump for my last question - does anyone know if there are changes from last years Laser GS to this years model? Thanks!

@LindseyB is your man, but to the best of my knowledge no. Just the topsheets.

 

[Tony Storaro]

So my choice for my tastes and turf would be to go with the Nela 88 and then get a narrower hard-snow specialist ski for those groomers-only days.

I love my AX 175 to bits, but if I had to choose between them and the SR95, which is basically bigger Nelas (well sort of), I'd go with the SRs.

Nela 88 and then get a narrower hard-snow specialist ski for those groomers-only days.

Yes.

 

[Philpug]

What does the Stockli hive think of the new Montero AX and AR? The AX is now 80 underfoot and the AR is 84.

 

[Tony Storaro]

What does the Stöckli hive think of the new Montero AX and AR? The AX is now 80 underfoot and the AR is 84. View attachment 155662

Whaaaa.....?


That will take some time to process...

What's wrong with these WRTs? Why so curvy? Or is it the perspective? Or are they kids ski?

 

[Tony S]

Here is a SoothSki report to compare the skis at various lengths.

The flex data is interesting:

View attachment 155632
View attachment 155633

The long Elans are significantly stiffer logitudinally (bending stiffness). The SR95 is one of those interesting skis that will hand flex more in the "medium" realm, but it has a good amount of torsional stiffness to hold the edge. Unfortunately the longer 2022 SR95 is not in the database. That would be the better comparison.

I am starting to be stunned at how different the flexes of different lengths in the same model can be. I guess I always assumed that they would and should be mildly different, but not to this extent. And obviously my hand-flexing skills are non-existent because when I have bent two lengths of the same model in a store, for example, I don't remember noticing a big difference. Then again, on reflection, maybe I have not performed that exercise as often as I think I have. I confess that I'm always a little sheepish about pulling out a bunch of skis to play with them, especially when I'm not actually planning to buy something that day or from that place. And on top of that there is always the extremely common obstacle where all the pairs - or all but one of the pairs - on the rack are bound together.

Anyway, fwiw I own the 2020 Ripstick Black @ 174 cm. Whatever else you might say about it it's hard for me to imagine that its snow feel is similar to any Stockli, including the SR 95. (I only have a couple runs on an SR 95, and it was from a few seasons back, on a hard groomer, so I can't speak from good first hand knowledge about that specific model.) The Elan has a chipper light-and-bright feel and resonance, in contrast with the notable calm smoothness of most Stocklis. (Elan has done amazing work with improving the feel of carbon in their skis, but it's still different from a ski with metal in it.) The tips are quite soft, but then it stiffens up noticeably in the forebody. Torsional stiffness is subjectively high; they carve amazingly well compared with how you THINK they're going to do when you pick them up.

 

[Noodler]

What does the Stöckli hive think of the new Montero AX and AR? The AX is now 80 underfoot and the AR is 84. View attachment 155662

Graphics are interesting... Added width, it's not really enough to drastically change where they would sit in a quiver. Any other details on other changes?

 

[anders_nor]

55-60mph GS carves on SL? nothankyou

I am starting to be stunned at how different the flexes of different lengths in the same model can be. I guess I always assumed that they would and should be mildly different, but not to this extent. And obviously my hand-flexing skills are non-existent because when I have bent two lengths of the same model in a store, for example, I don't remember noticing a big difference. Then again, on reflection, maybe I have not performed that exercise as often as I think I have. I confess that I'm always a little sheepish about pulling out a bunch of skis to play with them, especially when I'm not actually planning to buy something that day or from that place. And on top of that there is always the extremely common obstacle where all the pairs - or all but one of the pairs - on the rack are bound together.

Anyway, fwiw I own the 2020 Ripstick Black @ 174 cm. Whatever else you might say about it it's hard for me to imagine that its snow feel is similar to any Stöckli, including the SR 95. (I only have a couple runs on an SR 95, and it was from a few seasons back, on a hard groomer, so I can't speak from good first hand knowledge about that specific model.) The Elan has a chipper light-and-bright feel and resonance, in contrast with the notable calm smoothness of most Stöcklis. (Elan has done amazing work with improving the feel of carbon in their skis, but it's still different from a ski with metal in it.) The tips are quite soft, but then it stiffens up noticeably in the forebody. Torsional stiffness is subjectively high; they carve amazingly well compared with how you THINK they're going to do when you pick them up.

different length flex is why you sometimes end up with pool noodles in longer lengths (like enforcer series 191/193) and 185/186 performing better.