Quick question I’m hoping someone can answer. Do the 2022 SR88’s ski true-to-length? Longer? Shorter? Thanks!
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion
My experience doesn’t necessarily jibe with this. For example, my mx83s came with Kastle/tyrolia adjustable bindings that I replaced with pivots. The rubber/plastic track was kind of like a plate and I could feel the leverage the extra height gave but the snow feel was, for lack of a better word, rubbery. It is why I dismissed mx88s after a demo ten years ago, too rubbery feeling. The pivots transformed the mx83s for me. The snow feel and precision improvements made them much better carvers.
The main difference in reaction to the Pagoda skis was the issue. (If the ski was, say, the Blossom Whiteout, the description and roll of the Pivots for me would change some.) That DPS was the ski I was discussing vis a vis the Pivots as a secondary, lesser factor, versus the ARs. The main reason for the discrepancy of experience with the Pagodas I also stand by: Eastern habitual hardpan versus Western chalky packed powder makes a huge difference, for that ski in particular.
I don't experience "rubbery" with tall demo bindings. Never have. (If it's there, I must compensate for it unconsciously.) I ski them a lot, interchangeably with race bindings, Pivots, Schizos, and fixed all mountain bindings (though this last one I keep rarely).
We have different experiences with the Pivots versus tall demos, I guess, maybe due to profile differences, different locations, terrain we're skiing or whatever. I have skis with Pivots on them I kept, that do carve well; partly because of the Pivots, however, they also have more all mountain, bump, off piste and fresh snow versatility that a race plate or tall demo tends to minimize, relatively.
I've had other skis with Pivots, where in general I mostly want to emphasize the carve on piste, that for me, at least, are improved with either a race plate binding or a tall demo (e.g., Look SPX and Tyrolia AT), all a bit differently. So I often have switched out Pivots for other bindings, to good effect, for me. I don't experience any ill effect (more play, rubbery, etc.) from tall demos that aren't easily, even unconsciously, compensated for, anyway - but they are less playful and more carve dependent than the Pivots. If I were a bumper or one who pivots a lot in my style, I'd prefer Pivots. They have that name for good reason. Just watch nationally and internationally ranked bump skiers on groomers headed for their bump course: they are not carving. On those bump skis (with the Pivots that they favor), they mostly can't, nor do they care to.
I don't experience "rubbery" with tall demo bindings. Never have. (If it's there, I must compensate for it unconsciously.) I ski them a lot, interchangeably with race bindings, Pivots, Schizos, and fixed all mountain bindings (though this last one I keep rarely).
We have different experiences with the Pivots versus tall demos, I guess, maybe due to profile differences, different locations, terrain we're skiing or whatever. I have skis with Pivots on them I kept, that do carve well; partly because of the Pivots, however, they also have more all mountain, bump, off piste and fresh snow versatility that a race plate or tall demo tends to minimize, relatively.
I've had other skis with Pivots, where in general I mostly want to emphasize the carve on piste, that for me, at least, are improved with either a race plate binding or a tall demo (e.g., Look SPX and Tyrolia AT), all a bit differently. So I often have switched out Pivots for other bindings, to good effect, for me. I don't experience any ill effect (more play, rubbery, etc.) from tall demos that aren't easily, even unconsciously, compensated for, anyway - but they are less playful and more carve dependent than the Pivots. If I were a bumper or one who pivots a lot in my style, I'd prefer Pivots. They have that name for good reason. Just watch nationally and internationally ranked bump skiers on groomers headed for their bump course: they are not carving. On those bump skis (with the Pivots that they favor), they mostly can't, nor do they care to.
Last edited:
That makes sense, and yeah trust me, you wouldn't love them on east coast hardpan. They work, don't get me wrong... and I'm going put a REAL edge on them at some point this season to really see if I can get them to edge hold, but without any soft snow to sink into they were almost... squirrely? Not sure how to describe it, I haven't had a lot of experience on wider skis but coming around from edge to edge required me to pay more attention to my inside ski not unexpectedly grabbing, unlike my 80mm width (and smaller) skis.
I ski at Deer Valley during the World Cup and have been next to, behind or being passed by athletes & coaches on upper Big Stick on the way to their course. Those folks can carve and almost all are on Pivots.
Many years recently, the national bump team qualifying event is staged at Copper Mountain for multiple days. The best in the country, trying out for the national team. I watch them, and ski with them/ along side of them, for multiple days, coming down Oh No and Rosi's Run, and Collage, to their relatively short bump course near the bottom of Rosi's. Their skiing style on their competitive bump skis (almost all with Pivots) away from the bumps is distinctive, and very similar from top young bumpster to bumpster. (Not talking about their coaches or techs or hanger ons on modified or other types of skis and bindings, whether using Pivots or not.) They are part carving part slarving/slightly skidding, in an expert if not elite way, all the while at fairly high speed, young skier after skier, and especially not edge-holding in any places that have been hardened by the early season Olympic downhill and super G practice courses that host many national Olympic race teams early season. (And those racers almost never slightly controlled skid/carve, just carve big time). There must be a couple of hundred no nonsense, top national bumpers there, for practice run after practice run (and their few runs that count), and a number of international competitors also.
Again, they are not fully carving, but instead easily, casually, mostly all the time slightly slarving/pivoting, often at high speed down to their course, where they again don't carve as they pivot and go airborne through the bumps on the timer. It's a long recreational two runs they use for their short practice course and the "for real" course, and on those two runs, I'm often right beside them all the way, for hours - up to when they go into their bump course. For the most part, it's one long series of easy-going almost carve, slightly pivoted/skid near carves on purpose, done well on purpose, by those guys very casually, very much anticipated and allowed for - their usual routine, not some mistake or lack of hold. Effortlessly, no problem, rarely if ever fully carving on edge. (As near as I could tell, other than beside the actual course and below, there were few to almost no coaches or others skiing with them. They were almost all noticeably more young than coaches, and had numbers strapped on front and back, often. Just young skiers trying to qualify with the best.)
These bindings are not called Look Carves but instead Look Pivots, for good reason.
Again, they are not fully carving, but instead easily, casually, mostly all the time slightly slarving/pivoting, often at high speed down to their course, where they again don't carve as they pivot and go airborne through the bumps on the timer. It's a long recreational two runs they use for their short practice course and the "for real" course, and on those two runs, I'm often right beside them all the way, for hours - up to when they go into their bump course. For the most part, it's one long series of easy-going almost carve, slightly pivoted/skid near carves on purpose, done well on purpose, by those guys very casually, very much anticipated and allowed for - their usual routine, not some mistake or lack of hold. Effortlessly, no problem, rarely if ever fully carving on edge. (As near as I could tell, other than beside the actual course and below, there were few to almost no coaches or others skiing with them. They were almost all noticeably more young than coaches, and had numbers strapped on front and back, often. Just young skiers trying to qualify with the best.)
These bindings are not called Look Carves but instead Look Pivots, for good reason.
Last edited:
I want to apologize, @silverback, for not crediting your own experience and skier profile enough, or at least not at all clearly and sufficiently seems like, over the Pivots when used with a good recreational carver ski. With such a ski, such as the Stockli Lasers and AR, or various great carver Blossoms like the Whiteout, the Pivots do not stop those skis from being swell carvers, at least not much, while delivering more playful, immediate turns carving as well as pivoting for many, many skiers. With such good carver skis with Pivots and other bindings, I have to acknowledge there is a lot of skier difference in preferences. And I'd have to ski various great carver skis back to back with the different bindings to really be sure of what the full carve or precise, quick turn effect would be with each carver ski, just in my own case. (Maybe pros and cons to each, and thus again different fits for different skier profiles/styles).
I made the mistake of putting my wife on my AX's last year, and every time I show her candidate skis so I can get them back, she points at the AX and says "THAT ONE". So if anyone has some in a shorty (sub168) length they are looking to part with for a good price, let me know....
I'm struggling a bit with the search functionality, so if this question has been asked before, I apologize.
Who makes Stockli's WRT & SRT bindings, and where can I get more information about them (mounting details, adjustment & maintenance, etc) and their plates? The Stockli website is woefully lacking on specifications and detail. Thanks!
Who makes Stockli's WRT & SRT bindings, and where can I get more information about them (mounting details, adjustment & maintenance, etc) and their plates? The Stockli website is woefully lacking on specifications and detail. Thanks!
Salomon manufactures the Stockli Bindings.
WRT is an X-Lab design same as Salomon and Atomic Race.
SRT is an SP design with a stronger chassis in the toe for better lateral power.
Some of the plates are proprietary, some are common Salomon. Lots of Salomon Jigs work for Stockli bindings and plates.
P.S. These forums as a whole are Devil's creation (all due respect @Philpug ) You come here to learn about stuff, then never leave and helplessly watch your money disappear.
I’ve been telling myself I’m not getting the WRT Pros, I don’t need them. Yeah right…
When is it ever about need????
Now that‘s exactly what the other, evil part of me’s been telling myself.
You won't be happy until you get them, so just get them. Then the question becomes which binding do you put on it?
Can you just pick one for me?
I'd go with a pair but whatever you want
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,856
You may not need one of each size, certainly debatable, so it’s being frugal to just get one size.