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James

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Anyone remember which page this review of the Stockli SL FIS vs Atomic’s Redster FIS was?… can’t find it.
Pg 168. Should be bronzed.
Some thoughts on the FIS SL after skiing them this season as a major part of the quiver…

For context, I am a recovering Atomic race room ski junkie (summertime raids on WC athlete quivers / wintertime recreational skiing of said bounty with the occasional run at glory in the local Masters scene).

My primary point of reference is the 165 cm FIS Redster S9. Set-up: X20 binding / solid plate / running .5/4 bevels. I have >1M vertical ft on this set-up over the past 3 seasons.

My initial reaction to the Stöckli FIS SL in early season skiing was pure unadulterated enthusiasm. I had never skied a ski that blended so much power with so much playfulness. I stand by this impression, although as I have spent more time on the ski, there are some important nuances.

Side-cut - this ski is 2.0 mm wider in the tip, 1.5mm narrower in the waist, and 2.5 mm wider in the tail than it’s S9 counterpart. On paper, the differential in turn radius is minute at (.1m); but experientially the Stöckli’s preferred radius is MUCH shorter than the Redster. The Stöckli can snap off turns that radius-wise are unthinkable on the Redster. On the other-hand, the Stöckli is quite resistant to being skied at the occasional GS-radius turn length, which the Redster does with aplomb. This smaller radius of the Stockli is very confidence-inspiring when skiing gates, as one can arc through even the most desperate of recovery-turns.

Longitudinal Stiffness - this ski shares some heritage with the other Stöckli skis that I have sampled with regards to longitudinal stiffness, as there is a distinct differential between tip and tail stiffness with the tips being softer than the tail. This leads to an ease of turn initiation that is unique in this class of ski. This aspect makes pre-fall line engagement a breeze at surprisingly low speeds, and allows a level of precision/control in the Redster requires higher speeds and higher edge angles to replicate.

The Stöckli tails are not only comparatively stiff in relation to the tips, but on an absolute scale seem much stiffer than the Redster’s. In turn, the Stöckli delivers an extraordinary amount of power coming out of a turn, but need to be fully and rather intentionally flexed in order to work their magic. (I skied two full days until I first accessed the full strength of the tail quite by accident, and had to stop to take my heart out of my throat) In combination, this fore-aft differential in longitudinal stiffness invites a pronounced “fore-to-aft” migration of the optimal balance point on the ski during a turn. This takes some adaptation when transitioning from a ski like the Redster that seems to have a comparatively narrow and more neutral balance point; but once mastered opens up a FUN game of nuance between pressure strength and timing. This wider range of balance makes it delightful in variable snow conditions, or during ‘recovery-mode’ after badly mis-judging a cross-rut on a race course. It is particularly delightful in full-crud conditions with a firm base. The edges will hold for days underneath the crud, while the wide balance range will allows you to work though the ‘potato-sack thud’ sensation of incoming crud-chunks.

Torsional-Stiffness - If the fore-foot of the SL “lacks” comparative longitudinal-stiffness to the Redster, it is clearly “superior” in the category of torsional stiffness. In fact, it is the combination of a certain longitudinal suppleness and torsional rigidity in the fore-foot that is the hallmark of this ski, and it’s most subtle nuance. The ease of turn initiation, followed by a ‘dagger-on-ice’ edge hold that doesn’t deteriorate with pressure or speed, and is equal parts counterintuitive and mind-blowing. Something that flexes so easily shouldn’t possibly be able to hold so firmly, but it does it VERY WELL. This translates into an experience that builds confidence in high edge angles on steep terrain, and likewise in ripping lightening-fast transitions on ice. That outside- edge will be there sooner than you expect and cannot be overpowered torsionally. This aspect of the ski develops quite a “hero-complex” over time and is highly addicting.

The nuance here is that the ski rewards ‘good’ technique and punishes ‘bad’ technique. Edge engagement on the new turning ski above the fall-line is what these skis seem to be built for, while turn initiation in or after the fall-line generates a distinct ‘pumping-the-brakes’ sensation and has the tendency to scrub ALOT of speed very quickly. For me, this tendency is more pronounced in steep/icy terrain when technique begins to fall apart.

Rebound/Feedback - In sharing the heritage of the rest of the Stockli line, there is a secret in the core of the ski that is hard to describe but is evident in a certain feeling underfoot; particularly in the sensations felt when flexing and unflexing the ski. The Stöckli responds to nuances in the pressure phase of a turn (timing, speed, & angle) that are unobservable in the Redster. The active feedback from the ski during each phase of the turn creates a form of sensory-driven situational awareness that borders on black magic. The Redsters feel blunt in comparison, and when transitioning from the Stöckli to the Redster, I find myself grasping for supplemental visual and auditory cues to compensate for the lack of sensory input from the the ski.

In totality, I absolutely love the SL, and see many more pairs being added to the quiver; albeit there are rare applications where I may still occasionally reach for the Redsters.
 

JCF

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"The active feedback from the ski during each phase of the turn creates a form of sensory-driven situational awareness that borders on black magic."

Pure poetry...There is that in the shorter WRTP also.
It is hard to describe the connectedness you get through what is happening between you, the ski and the surface as you arc through a properly executed turn. The edge of the ski drawing the turn feels silky and light, but at the same time the centripetal force feels heavy and solid like a section of an oak log. And the movement seems to happen in slow motion, like your brain is savoring the sensations as they travel up and down the spinal cord.
You don't feel it if the turn is off, and I can't say if this is unique to these skis; the AR's have an echo of the same feeling but nowhere near the clarity.
But when you get it right with these skis something special happens.
 

surfsnowgirl

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Took my Stormrider 83s out today and they are really awesome. I haven't taken them out much but figured now or never. It was firm today at Magic with the trails icing overnight there was groomed snowmaking trails and ungroomed natural trails. These stocklis were awesome. These things did great, really great. They hend an edge awesomely and are really fun and easy to ski. I know they don't make this one any longer but these are phenomenal. I took my 85 Motion Stormriders out yesterday and that's another fine ski. I'm probalby going to be late to the newer stockli party because I've neard the Nela isn't the same ski and is kinda like what Volkl did to the new kenja/kendo which makes me a little sad. I'll ski my current stocklis until they are ready to be addirondack chair material and then I'll figure it out. In the meantime my SR 83, 85, 95 and 100 skis make me very happy.
 

KingGrump

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I've neard the Nela isn't the same ski and is kinda like what Volkl did to the new kenja/kendo which makes me a little sad.

Don't know what you've heard about the new Kenja/Kendo. I am very skeptical of reviews unless I know the reviewer.

My first hand experience of the gen 5 Kenja/Kendo are much better than the out going gen 4 version. Barely logged over 50 days in 3 seasons on my gen 4 Kendo. Imo, the gen 4 is a bit of a dog. I usually get around 45+ days per season on my various Kendo from previous gens. Have a new pair of gen 5 downstairs by the door. The magic is back.
 

surfsnowgirl

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I was told by an insider about what stockli did to the nela as it's not the same ski as the motion 85. I used the kenja analogy just to illustrate how the stockli has changed. As far as the kenja goes I've been on both older and newer. I have the 21 Kenja 88 and a pair each of the 2015 kendo and kenja. I absolutely prefer the older models. The newer one is fine, fun in powder bumps, light and easy to pivot but I prefer the handling of my'15 models. I know lots of folks that like the newer models but o each their own.
 
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KingGrump

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I was told by an insider about what stockli did to the nela as it's not the same ski as the motion 85. I used the kenja analogy just to illustrate how the stockli has changed. As far as the kenja goes I've been on both older and newer. I have the 21 Kenja 88 and a pair each of the 2015 kendo and kenja. I absolutely prefer the older models. The newer one is fine, fun in powder bumps, light and easy to pivot but I prefer the handling of my'15 models. I know lots of folks that like the newer models but o each their own.
The 2021 is the gen 4. 2023 is the new gen 5.
 

surfsnowgirl

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The 2021 is the gen 4. 2023 is the new gen 5.

I've only had my 2021 (gen 4) kenja out once and TBH it didn't wow me. I was going to keep her and see what happens but I'm excited to try the gen 5 now.

Going to talk to frank at the ski shop at Bromley. He usually carries the kenja. He and I have had many a chat about the old v new kenja.
 

Johnny V.

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FYI- If anyone is interested in demoing Stocklis in the Rochester NY area, the Ski Company location in Bloomfield (about 8 miles from Bristol) just set up their demos. I took a quick look yesterday, and they have the following : AR,AX, MX, SR88, SR95 and I think Nela 80s all in a variety of lengths. I think they get $35 per day with the ability to change (but you have to drive back to the store).
 

Rdputnam515

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Still have not been on my WRT STs lol. It has snowed every day out (or has been super super soft and fluffy) since I got them and we have had a great snow year so far. Could be far far worse problems to be having lol.

But I am itching since I got them.
 

cosmoliu

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Today was about day 8 on the SR 105s I picked up mid season year before last. The first few days I wasn’t quite sure what to think of them. But today they finally clicked with me and I’m hooked. In crud, the higher the edge angle, the better they perform (Duh!). No time to be tentative on them. Now, if only I had the strength to crank out more than maybe 20 such turns before getting mush-legs…
 

Audioguy

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Man, lots of talk on the previous two pages that 180 WRT is an unforgiving beast. Maybe it's my poor technique, but I went with the 180 as I thought it would be more forgiving than the shorter, more high sidey (how do you spell that), shorter turn radius, and less stable 172's. I also have non FIS SL in 170 (that I still struggle to love) and the GS in 185 (that I friggin love). The 180 WRT Pro is just about the perfect compromise for me, love them. I'm doing house league racing, GS but on the tight side. The 180 Pro is absolutely wonderful, stable yet quick, kinda like my old 2004 749R ;-)
 

Tony S

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Cover your eyes now if you're squeamish. I have a sad story to tell.

I was waxing up my daily driver SR Motion 85s for my trip to the gathering in New Mexico. (I've come to like these skis a lot. They do the middle 80% of conditions so well.) I was having a LOT of trouble with that little ridge of wax that often forms where the tip turn up starts. I scraped and scraped and brushed and brushed. No joy. Weird.

Then I finally figured it out. That bump was not wax. It was a hinge point. My ski was bent. Right at the spot where the sidewall inlay ends. It's obvious once you know it's there. Don't know how it happened. So bummed. I do think there is a good chance it won't have a noticable impact on the ski's behavior. Here's hoping.
 

KingGrump

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Cover your eyes now if you're squeamish. I have a sad story to tell.

I was waxing up my daily driver SR Motion 85s for my trip to the gathering in New Mexico. (I've come to like these skis a lot. They do the middle 80% of conditions so well.) I was having a LOT of trouble with that little ridge of wax that often forms where the tip turn up starts. I scraped and scraped and brushed and brushed. No joy. Weird.

Then I finally figured it out. That bump was not wax. It was a hinge point. My ski was bent. Right at the spot where the sidewall inlay ends. It's obvious once you know it's there. Don't know how it happened. So bummed. I do think there is a good chance it won't have a noticable impact on the ski's behavior. Here's hoping.

No worries. Folks here on the forum routinely detune the first two feet of the ski to eliminate grabbiness. You should be good.
 

Tony Storaro

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No worries. Folks here on the forum routinely detune the first two feet of the ski to eliminate grabbiness. You should be good.

No no, you got that wrong! Up to the contact point! The contact point between the snow and the binding plate that is.
 

Tony Storaro

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Cover your eyes now if you're squeamish. I have a sad story to tell.

I was waxing up my daily driver SR Motion 85s for my trip to the gathering in New Mexico. (I've come to like these skis a lot. They do the middle 80% of conditions so well.) I was having a LOT of trouble with that little ridge of wax that often forms where the tip turn up starts. I scraped and scraped and brushed and brushed. No joy. Weird.

Then I finally figured it out. That bump was not wax. It was a hinge point. My ski was bent. Right at the spot where the sidewall inlay ends. It's obvious once you know it's there. Don't know how it happened. So bummed. I do think there is a good chance it won't have a noticable impact on the ski's behavior. Here's hoping.

Time for Nela 88 then. On to new adventures. Skis are like everything else in life-subject to origination-subject to cessation. Attach to them do not, mourn their demise do not for they are nearing the point when they will be one with the Force. In the Netherworld of the G-Force.
 

KingGrump

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No no, you got that wrong! Up to the contact point! The contact point between the snow and the binding plate that is.

Contact point. Right.
The way some of these folks are skiing off the backseat (toilet). It's not unusual for the skis to wheelie couple feet of the tip off the snow. :duck: :ogbiggrin:
 

Tony Storaro

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Contact point. Right.
The way some of these folks are skiing off the backseat (toilet). It's not unusual for the skis to wheelie couple feet of the tip off the snow. :duck: :ogbiggrin:

Ah that's called planing man. It just means that you move full speed, full throttle of the engine. The bow just cant stay down. It is physics. Hydrodynamics...or something.
 
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