The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion

[dovski]

This is not the first time I've heard this story.

Either I am becoming predictable or I need new stories, probably both

 

[Tricia]

Either I am becoming predictable or I need new stories, probably both

No, not from you but others. Including my own stories.

 

[cosmoliu]

Well, he is just providing a balanced perspective.

This is definitely an important point. I mostly attend this thread as one of those Stockli nut case fanboys. I have to say that I haven't paid attention to almost any reviews of non-Stockli skis for at least the past 3 years. But there was a discussion several pages back on how Stockli may be ceding the deep powder end of ski design to other companies, concentrating their efforts on what they do best. And @Noodler made a specific comment as to how the Fischer Ranger series models ski circles around Stockli. I must admit that when I chase some friends around Snowbird who know where to hunt down hidden powder stashes, I sometimes wonder if life might be easier on skis more designed for the task.

Note to self: Try to check out Fischer next season.

 

[KingGrump]

I thought the BS and crosstalk was half the fun
Would love to come to one of the gatherings, but it is tough to do when you work full-time and have three kids still at home ... luckily my kids love to ski. Perhaps this coming year will be the one where I can make it to a gathering.

No worries, mate. I'll personally stop by Crystal next season and make few turns with you and your family. You guys have a good hill in your backyard.

This is definitely an important point. I mostly attend this thread as one of those Stöckli nut case fanboys. I have to say that I haven't paid attention to almost any reviews of non-Stöckli skis for at least the past 3 years. But there was a discussion several pages back on how Stöckli may be ceding the deep powder end of ski design to other companies, concentrating their efforts on what they do best. And @Noodler made a specific comment as to how the Fischer Ranger series models ski circles around Stöckli. I must admit that when I chase some friends around Snowbird who know where to hunt down hidden powder stashes, I sometimes wonder if life might be easier on skis more designed for the task.

Note to self: Try to check out Fischer next season.

Keep missing you last couple seasons. We'll try to schedule better next season.

 

[dovski]

This is definitely an important point. I mostly attend this thread as one of those Stöckli nut case fanboys. I have to say that I haven't paid attention to almost any reviews of non-Stöckli skis for at least the past 3 years. But there was a discussion several pages back on how Stöckli may be ceding the deep powder end of ski design to other companies, concentrating their efforts on what they do best. And @Noodler made a specific comment as to how the Fischer Ranger series models ski circles around Stöckli. I must admit that when I chase some friends around Snowbird who know where to hunt down hidden powder stashes, I sometimes wonder if life might be easier on skis more designed for the task.

Note to self: Try to check out Fischer next season.

Agree that Stockli currently does not have a real powder ski in their line-up. Next year they will cap out with the Stormrider 102. Don't get me wrong I ski my SR95 in POW all the time, but on a deep POW day always go for my Enforcer 110 and at some point will likely get something even wider for POW. This is a space where Stockli does not compete, that said they are one ski away from being there

 

[Tony Storaro]

that said they are one ski away from being there

And let's pray, in the name of everything that is holy, frontside and groomed they will never go in that direction.
Leave that to the nice people from Moment, DPS, ON3P, Faction and suchlike.
No Ferrari trucks please.

 

[Tony S]

And then it continues with the proverbial raining on people's parade, why?

I mean, what is wrong with people raving about something they truly like? Why do some feel compelled to squash other's enthusiasm? I just do not get it.

Not trying to squash your enthusiasm. Enthuse away. At the risk of sounding like Phil, I'm just aware that thousands of innocent skiers visit the site with essentially no knowledge other than what they read here. My post was written with that audience in mind, not you. Thus KG's accurate comment about providing balance and context.

 

[Philpug]

And then it continues with the proverbial raining on people's parade, why?

I mean, what is wrong with people raving about something they truly like? Why do some feel compelled to squash other's enthusiasm? I just do not get it.

Not trying to squash your enthusiasm. Enthuse away. At the risk of sounding like Phil, I'm just aware that thousands of innocent skiers visit the site with essentially no knowledge other than what they read here. My post was written with that audience in mind, not you. Thus KG's accurate comment about providing balance and context.

To paraphrase Don Juan "There is a little Phil in everyone and since I am Phil, there is a little more in me". Yes, @KingGrump and @Tony S were not raining on the parade but adding some balance to the perspective. As good as the AX is it is not the answer to every question that it appears to be in this discussion. I would say that about any ski discussion where there was the pom-pom like there is here.

 

[Tony Storaro]

As good as the AX is it is not the answer to every question that it appears to be in this discussion.

Indeed not. The answer to great many of these questions is WRT ST. Or SR95.

The questions of the type: What should I buy for waist deep snow, quite obviously, do not belong here.

 

[Tony Storaro]

I'm just aware that thousands of innocent skiers visit the site with essentially no knowledge other than what they read here.

And instead of going straight to the reviews written by the test team-that in case they need new ski, they will go to the "(almost) Fans only" Stockli section and form their opinion based on what we say here? Is that the danger?

 

[Philpug]

And instead of going straight to the reviews written by the test team-that in case they need new ski, they will go to the "(almost) Fans only" Stöckli section and form their opinion based on what we say here? Is that the danger?

It can be because it is very biased.

 

[Paul Lutes]

And instead of going straight to the reviews written by the test team-that in case they need new ski, they will go to the "(almost) Fans only" Stöckli section and form their opinion based on what we say here? Is that the danger?

If you rely only on a quick hit of one or the other, then chances are you will not end up with what you thought you wanted. With out at least a moderate amount of background checks on whoever is providing the review it's nothing but blind luck for desired results: no work, no gold. As painful as that can be for the shopper, it is part of the education and I would like to think that any one with at least a moderate amount of buying experience is well aware of this - if not, it's hard to be sympathetic.

I do appreciate a little bit of stabilizing sanity when it comes to the latest and greatest, especially since I was one of the early hysterical WRT-ST grabbers. A little giddy over-reaction is OK, especially when you take big leap into an unfamiliar area. This can also be as much about the new area as the specific ski.

There's no question that all skis brands have their strengths and weaknesses, and just to make things more interesting, the balance between the two can shift over time, with improvements in the competition, and general technology progression. Settling in on one brand seems foolish in the long run.

 

[Tony Storaro]

If you rely only on a quick hit of one or the other, then chances are you will not end up with what you thought you wanted. With out at least a moderate amount of background checks on whoever is providing the review it's nothing but blind luck for desired results: no work, no gold. As painful as that can be for the shopper, it is part of the education and I would like to think that any one with at least a moderate amount of buying experience is well aware of this - if not, it's hard to be sympathetic.

Ahh, I think you underestimate the intelligence of the people who are willing to spend 1300 dollars/euros and up on a pair of ski. That's a lot of money and I do not believe there are many out there who will just go ahead and splash the cash just like that-on a whim, without double and triple checks with other sources of info and without some serious consideration.
And as you mentioned the WRT ST-I spent quite some time thinking, sweating, reading reviews and more thinking before I decided to pull the trigger.

I believe the newbs who are interested in this type of ski are quite safe. And then again, what could possibly go wrong with buying Stockli? Nothing really. The Swiss guys do not ship junk.

 

[Tony Storaro]

It can be because it is very biased.

Of course it is, it is called "The Stockli discussion" for a reason, same as "Moment ski", "Atomic ski boots thread" etc...

 

[dovski]

Ahh, I think you underestimate the intelligence of the people who are willing to spend 1300 dollars/euros and up on a pair of ski. That's a lot of money and I do not believe there are many out there who will just go ahead and splash the cash without double and triple checks with other sources of info and without some serious consideration.
And as you mentioned the WRT ST-I spent quite some time thinking, sweating, reading reviews and more thinking before I decided to pull the trigger.

I believe the newbs who are interested in this type of ski are quite safe. And then again, what could possibly go wrong with buying Stöckli? Nothing really. The Swiss guys do not ship rubbish.

Wow ok new rules for this thread:

1. No politics
2. No religion
3. No challenging @Tony Storaro on his love for Stocklis which appears to border on both politics and religion
4. Oh and special caveat do not dare challenge the supremacy of the WRT aka @Tony Storaro's holly grail which would make the Stockli factory is Switzerland the Arc of the covenant I think .... delete rule number 4 as it may have violated rule number 2
5. Rule number 5 was going to be make Stockli's great again but please disregard as it may violate rule number 1

Joking aside most innocent uniformed skiers ski an average of 5 times a year and probably do not really research skis let alone demo them before buying them. If anything they go by price and does this match my ski coat lol. If someone is really searching this site for Stockli reviews they are also likely looking at a lot of other sources and probably also demoing skis. My point being is that on a Stockli fanboy/girl/person thread (yes I am woke I used all pronouns) it is highly unlikely that the overwhelming bias for Stocklis vs other premium skis is going to misslead a novice skier. Let's get real, I love my Stockli's but absolutely explored and demoed other skis before buying my Stocklis. Let's be honest demoing different skis is kind of fun

Last but not least if I were to peruse the Renoun or Augment threads on this site I think we would find a very similar rhetoric about the love of those skis. For an objective view I read the cage match or comparative reviews and as @Tony Storaro points out these skis are not cheap so typically I like to try before I buy the same way I test drive several cars before making a big purchase

So with that said lets agree that everyone on this site likes to ski and has opinions about skis. And if possible could we steer this thread back to sharing our opinions on Stockli skis rather than our opinions and assumptions about those who like Stocklis ... I think we need a separate thread for that

 

[Tony Storaro]

1. No challenging @Tony Storaro on his love for Stöcklis which appears to border on both politics and religion
2. Oh and special caveat do not dare challenge the supremacy of the WRT aka @Tony Storaro's holly grail which would make the Stöckli factory is Switzerland the Arc of the covenant I think ....

Ahahahhh... Objection Your Honor!

1. His love for SOME of Stockli skis. That includes the AX, WRT ST and SR 95. I do not like the SL and the GS, although the jury is still out on the latter as I spent very little time on them and that-with broken ribs and pulled abductor on the left leg, so I might be totally wrong and also I personally do not need SX, SC,AR etc.
Even for what I call "Speed ski" I went for other brands: Head e-GS Pro Master, and Rossi Hero Master M21.
So again not ALL the Stockli. Some of them.

2. I have also been very objective on the WRT-ST (after stating they are the best thing after the sliced bread of course ) and on more than one occasion I stated that if you do not ski groomers or hard snow, they are not the best option.

So, to quote that Pontius Pilate dude: I wash my hands!

 

[dovski]

Ahahahhh... Objection Your Honor!

1. His love for SOME of Stöckli skis. That includes the AX, WRT ST and SR 95. I do not like the SL and the GS, although the jury is still out on the latter as I spend very little time on them and that-with broken ribs and pulled abductor on the left leg, so I might be totally wrong and also I personally do not need SX, SC,AR etc. So again not ALL the Stöckli. Some of them.

2. I have also been very objective on the WRT-ST (after stating they are the best thing after the sliced bread of course ) and on more than one occasion I stated that if you do not ski groomers or hard snow, they are not the best option.

So, to quote that Pontius Pilate dude: I wash my hands!

Rule number 6 no quoting Pontius Pilate
Rule number 7 no referring to people as dude unless you are from California and in that case you need to preface it by saying "Way Cool" before stating "Dude"

 

[David Chaus]

Just as a reminder, this thread was originally started in Feb 2018 as a description of the Stockli lineup for 2019-2020 (as is/was done for virtually every other brand). It became a very active thread, and continued to be active even after the next model year and thereafter (it’s now 99 pages!) so I suggested it be renamed the Neverending Stockli thread, in part because we have a Stockli rep who participates regularly and provides some very useful information, particularly as things change with the models. I can only think of this thread and one or two on Atomic boots in which we have an insider providing information on new developments and responding to inquiries. It’s one of the unique things about SkiTalk, and one of the best things.

So it started out as a review/compare/contrast thread, became the place to get questions answered and advise provided about Stockli’s, and has also become a home for fanboys and girls. Not that I have any say in the matter, but I would not want the original intent and function of the thread to be lost in the evolution of the thread. If it’s mostly rah-rah and little useful information, I’ll ignore the thread, and I would imagine so would many others.

I like all the information, including what people like about a particular model as well as what didn’t work for them. Providing specific feedback (the tune was bad, or not stiff enough for me in the tip) is useful for someone who is contemplating a Stockli.

 

[Steve]

Joking aside most innocent uniformed skiers ,,,,

These kind of uniforms?

 

[dovski]

These kind of uniforms?

View attachment 134357

I actually prefer the old Canadian Ski Patrol System jackets that match my Laser AX skis

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Joking aside I was part of the CSPS at 16 and hauled lots of “fashion oriented” folks who happened to try skiing off the hill. Luckily none that I treated had serious injuries.