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The NEW 23/24 Dobermann RD boots

Rudi Riet

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Do not expect an out of the box fit with the new Dobie, this boot needs to be fit out of the box.

...especially the RD5 variant with the 93mm last. The 96mm iteration may be closer to a "fit out of the box" situation for some - for some.
 

In2h2o

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The new Doberman seems to have a bit more toe room, but lower instep and less forward lean than last years. Not sure it is going to work with my foot....
So this sounds better for me, just trying to compare to the current Firebird R and other options in race land..... this is coming from the "I wish there was a 22.5 plug/rec race boots comparison thread....."
Its hard to find a shop that would even carry a few 22.5 to compare in the appropriate flex....
 
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Rudi Riet

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Have no experience with race boots, let alone Nordica ones. Which flex is closest to Lange RX 130?

Having actually skied a decent amount in the new Dobermann 5 RD series (i.e. the 93mm last version) I'd say the Medium would be close-ish - it would probably need a channel cut to really get down to the Lange's 130-level flex. And in cold weather it would still be on the stiff end of things.

FWIW: my Dobermanns are the Stiff flex and while Nordica calls it a 130 when compared with the Lange RS/RX 130 it's an entire league stiffer. It's the difference between a high-end recreational boot and a full race plug.
 

Zirbl

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Have no experience with race boots, let alone Nordica ones. Which flex is closest to Lange RX 130?
The flex is almost by the by. Lange's FIS boots have a less upright cuff and more forward hinging than the RX, so while the RX plastic is easier to distort, the FIS boots allow a less open ankle position. So the ankle is less restricted in the race boot despite the stiffer plastic. The Nordica FIS boot has more forward lean than the Lange FIS.

If you're in Gastein, you don't have to go far to get to an experienced boot fitter.
 

BTWilliams

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...especially the RD5 variant with the 93mm last. The 96mm iteration may be closer to a "fit out of the box" situation for some - for some.

I just got fitted to a pair of the Dobermann 5's, 96mm last x 140 flex @ Start Haus. I have never been in a "modern" race boot, having taken a short 25 year break from the slopes. When they were quizzing me about what I wanted in boot feel...I told them I hated deadband or slop, and wanted immediate shell loading and response. A "crisp" boot is the way I described it. They put a Lange on one foot, and a Dobermann on the other, suspecting I would prefer the Dobermann. That is pretty much how it went I immediately told them that the Lange was exactly what I did not want. Lots of deadband...which they call a "progressive" flex. I do not like that feel at all. The Lange flex to me did not feel any different than boots I skied 30+ years ago as a junior. The Dobermann 5 was a from a different planet.....the flex patthern was exactly what I hoped for in a boot - CRISP and IMMEDIATE. My only concern was that they felt awfully soft in a warm shop. I immediately asked them how much they would firm up in the cold...and they assured me they would get a LOT stiffer.

Initially, they were thinking of the 93mm boot, but after they measured my foot, they thought a 96mm one shell size down would be the ticket. They know what they are doing...because the fit was great, except for my big toes, which were smashed. I guess I have a pretty "textbook" foot....all I needed was forward room for the big toes and a bit of general volume all around in the toe box. Two iterations of grinding in that area, and that was about it. Other than that, the fit was quite good out of the box. The remaining mild pressure points I had were in areas they said I should allow to break in. First day on the slopes will be this weekend. I have been wearing them around the house, and they feel amazingly comfortable for a new race boot with such an insanely tight fit. It feels like every square mm of my foot/ankle is in firm contact with the liner, but there is no real excessive pressure anywhere. When I load the boot, there is no deadband, and the shell immediately loads up. But you never know till you make some turns...
 
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Rudi Riet

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I immediately told them that the Lange was exactly what I did not want. Lots of deadband...which they call a "progressive" flex. I do not like that feel at all. The Lange flex to me did not feel any different than boots I skied 30+ years ago as a junior. The Dobermann 5 was a from a different planet.....the flex patthern was exactly what I hoped for in a boot - CRISP and IMMEDIATE. My only concern was that they felt awfully soft in a warm shop. I immediately asked them how much they would firm up in the cold...and they assured me they would get a LOT stiffer.

After a 25 year break in the action there will be some adjustment to things, especially if you've not yet made the transition to shaped skis (very different approach). The Dobies will be very responsive, for sure!

And yes, they stiffen up a ton in the cold. Be prepared to take a little more time donning and doffing the shells when it's cold. If anything it makes the après time legit as you wait for the shells to warm back up before trying to take them off. ;)

Initially, they were thinking of the 93mm boot, but after they measured my foot, they thought a 96mm one shell size down would be the ticket. They know what they are doing...because the fit was great, except for my big toes, which were smashed. I guess I have a pretty "textbook" foot....all I needed was forward room for the big toes and a bit of general volume all around in the toe box. Two iterations of grinding in that area, and that was about it. Other than that, the fit was quite good out of the box. The remaining mild pressure points I had were in areas they said I should allow to break in. First day on the slopes will be this weekend. I have been wearing them around the house, and they feel amazingly comfortable for a new race boot with such an insanely tight fit. It feels like every square mm of my foot/ankle is in firm contact with the liner, but there is no real excessive pressure anywhere.

Sounds like you made the right move with the 96mm shell. My forefoot is 91mm so the 93mm made more sense (tho the 96mm fits my feet just fine, if not quite as precisely). Glad you've spent some time walking around the house in the boots, though any break in will really take place on the mountain where the dynamic forces are more extreme. Even with the good fit expect some complaints from your feet as they get re-acclimated with such tight-fitting shoes.

Question: do you have custom footbeds in these boots?

When I load the boot, there is no deadband, and the shell immediately loads up. But you never know till you make some turns...

Exactly! And what skis will you be using?

Color me curious...

Good luck!
 

BTWilliams

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After a 25 year break in the action there will be some adjustment to things, especially if you've not yet made the transition to shaped skis (very different approach). The Dobies will be very responsive, for sure!

And yes, they stiffen up a ton in the cold. Be prepared to take a little more time donning and doffing the shells when it's cold. If anything it makes the après time legit as you wait for the shells to warm back up before trying to take them off. ;)



Sounds like you made the right move with the 96mm shell. My forefoot is 91mm so the 93mm made more sense (tho the 96mm fits my feet just fine, if not quite as precisely). Glad you've spent some time walking around the house in the boots, though any break in will really take place on the mountain where the dynamic forces are more extreme. Even with the good fit expect some complaints from your feet as they get re-acclimated with such tight-fitting shoes.

Question: do you have custom footbeds in these boots?



Exactly! And what skis will you be using?

Color me curious...

Good luck!

I actually started skiing again about 18 months ago....after the 25 year break, but I have been on old boots - late 90s Technica ICON Carbons with the stiff black cuffs. So I have about 45 days skiing on modern skis...with old tech boots. Start Haus made up custom footbeds for me.... The boots were also canted. I have a range of skis...

170 cm Atomic X9 WBs for drills and easy skiing
175 cm Atomic X9 RS med radius race stock skis for hard free skiing
183 cm Atomic G9 Masters Ski, 19.4m Radius
188 cm Atomic G9 FIS Womens ski, 30m
165 cm Rossi Hero FIS SL...just got these....
Also thinking about a 193cm x 30m FIS GS ski....I would go Atomic...but those ICON bindings are just stupid....so probably Rossi or Nordica
 

smctigue

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Having actually skied a decent amount in the new Dobermann 5 RD series (i.e. the 93mm last version) I'd say the Medium would be close-ish - it would probably need a channel cut to really get down to the Lange's 130-level flex. And in cold weather it would still be on the stiff end of things.

FWIW: my Dobermanns are the Stiff flex and while Nordica calls it a 130 when compared with the Lange RS/RX 130 it's an entire league stiffer. It's the difference between a high-end recreational boot and a full race plug.
I skied Dobermann 110’s two seasons ago. They are as, if not more, stiff than my Lange ZAs.
 

BTWilliams

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Start Haus does a good job

Why are the icon bindings stupid?

If you dont like the Icon, Marker XComp18 & Race/Comp20 fit on the icon race plates.

DIN 20 minimum on the toe is stupid.

I have also heard both opinions on the ICON bolt pattern being Marker compatible. Some say the Markers can be bolted up...and other say no way...the holes dont line up exactly the same, and you are foolish to do that.
 

KingGrump

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DIN 20 minimum on the toe is stupid.

Those bindings are for a different class of skiers. They appears to have a requirement for them. Perhaps you are just not in that grouping. Gotta know yourself.
 

BTWilliams

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Those bindings are for a different class of skiers. They appears to have a requirement for them. Perhaps you are just not in that grouping. Gotta know yourself.

So, I was not aware that there was an ICON 24.... I thought the min DIN was 20.... My mistake.

But even DIN 14 is a bit more than I want to run these days on the toe. After multiple knee surgeries I am careful about my knees and run low toe DIN settings. That does not mean I can not properly load and use a 193cm x 30m FIS GS ski.
 

KingGrump

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So, I was not aware that there was an ICON 24.... I thought the min DIN was 20.... My mistake.

But even DIN 14 is a bit more than I want to run these days on the toe. After multiple knee surgeries I am careful about my knees and run low toe DIN settings. That does not mean I can not properly load and use a 193cm x 30m FIS GS ski.

20 is the lowest DIN on the Icon 30 binding.

Manufacturers don't make things because they have nothing better to do with their time and money. They make them for a reason. I can tell you they didn't make those high DIN bindings for me. Ultra performance boots and ski are also things they didn't have me in mind when they set out to produce them.

And I am very happy they didn't. There are many out there with the proper DNA, training and skill to utilize the uber performance of those equipment. I am not one of them. I am pretty happy with the regular retail stuff I get.

I recalled the thread on the Icon binding when it first came out. Someone asked where he can buy one. Phil's answer was "If you have a need for them, they will find you."

Happiness in life is be content with what you are and what you have.
 

Philpug

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The first thing I asked the powers to be at Ato-mon about the Icon series was if there was going to be a 12 and 16 version and I got "eventually" as a reply. Eventually will be coming pretty soon.
 

Rudi Riet

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The first thing I asked the powers to be at Ato-mon about the Icon series was if there was going to be a 12 and 16 version and I got "eventually" as a reply. Eventually will be coming pretty soon.

Yeah, I can't see junior racers who want to "look like Mikaela" or "look like Aleks" keep settling for the X-Var setup. Optics matter so it's inevitable that they'll make an Icon binding for mere mortals.
 

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