• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

chemist

Falling off the lift.
Skier
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Posts
109
There’s also the corpus.e 3D scanner from Germany.
Gorsuch have installed this system in their shops at Vail, Beaver Creek, Park City and Aspen.
Neat. I looked into this further, and you've got two options with the Ertl-Renz system: (1) scan your foot, and have the retailer use that scan to match your foot to what they stock; (2) have Ertl-Renz make you a custom shell, in Germany, based on that scan (that's the process pictured at the end with the wooden molds).

The limitation with #1 for the customer is that, for the scan system to truly provide utility, you'd want it to be able to find you the optimum fit candidates from the entire universe of production boots; if it can only search within what the store carries, it doesn't seem like it's very helpful, since if you're in the store you can just do the more direct test of trying the boots on. Granted, it might speed up to process by helping the bootfitter to identify the best candidates more quickly, but I would think a skilled fitter than knows his/her stock would be able to do that anyways.

Where this would be *really* useful would be with plug boots, since those are the ones retailers are least likely to stock, and are thus hardest to try on (at least if you're not training at Mt. Hood in the summer). At the same time, those are the boots least likely to be included in such a database.

It will soon be possible to use your Smartphone to make 3D scans of your feet, this device looks like it might do the job.

Doesn't look like this would work for the foot, since it seems it would require you to stand on a rotating turntable, and the one they supply is not going to support a person. Of course, it wouldn't be hard to make a commercial version that could do this.
 
Last edited:

Swiss Toni

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Posts
586
The scans have to be uploaded to corpus.e where the post processing and matching takes place, they charge a fee per scan. They have the database of boot shapes, so you could ask them if they have scanned any plug boots.

At the moment the system is only used for recreational boots, unfortunately they don’t seem to address any biomechanical issues such as limited dorsiflexion. Stretching boots using padded lasts can be a bit tricky, if you’re not careful the boot soles will warp.

Obviously your right about the turntable being too small, but it would easy to make a larger one
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:729923

I’m surprised that there is such a large discrepancy between the actual internal length (last length) of ski boots and the size. It looks to me that if you have a MP 26.0 foot and bought the same size in an Atomic Hawx you would have 28mm behind the heel when you checked the shell fit, which seems over generous to me

Hawx2.jpg

Do the manufactures do this on purpose to drive sales? In 2014 world ski sales were estimated at around 3.2 million pairs p.a. and boot sales at 3.6 million pairs, I go through a lot more skis than boots.
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,788
Location
Sun Peaks B.C. in winter, Victoria B.C. in summer
The scans have to be uploaded to corpus.e where the post processing and matching takes place, they charge a fee per scan. They have the database of boot shapes, so you could ask them if they have scanned any plug boots.

At the moment the system is only used for recreational boots, unfortunately they don’t seem to address any biomechanical issues such as limited dorsiflexion. Stretching boots using padded lasts can be a bit tricky, if you’re not careful the boot soles will warp.

Obviously your right about the turntable being too small, but it would easy to make a larger one
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:729923

I’m surprised that there is such a large discrepancy between the actual internal length (last length) of ski boots and the size. It looks to me that if you have a MP 26.0 foot and bought the same size in an Atomic Hawx you would have 28mm behind the heel when you checked the shell fit, which seems over generous to me

Hawx2.jpg


Do the manufactures do this on purpose to drive sales? In 2014 world ski sales were estimated at around 3.2 million pairs p.a. and boot sales at 3.6 million pairs, I go through a lot more skis than boots.

Boot flex numbers are not industry standard between manufacturers.
Sole lengths are not industry standard for a given size between manufacturers.
So I doubt that interior length measurements are industry standard for all boots of a given size, hence the need for a shell fit when trying on boots.
 

chemist

Falling off the lift.
Skier
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Posts
109
The scans have to be uploaded to corpus.e where the post processing and matching takes place, they charge a fee per scan. They have the database of boot shapes, so you could ask them if they have scanned any plug boots.
Actually I already did. Gorsuch doesn't stock plug boots, and they only scan what they stock, so until a place that stocks plugs adopts this system, I'm out of luck. Or maybe a speciality shop that doesn't stock plugs but does have a clientele for which they special order them; they'd just need to gain access to the scan database.
 

skibob

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
4,268
Location
Santa Rosa Fire Belt
The scans have to be uploaded to corpus.e where the post processing and matching takes place, they charge a fee per scan. They have the database of boot shapes, so you could ask them if they have scanned any plug boots.

At the moment the system is only used for recreational boots, unfortunately they don’t seem to address any biomechanical issues such as limited dorsiflexion. Stretching boots using padded lasts can be a bit tricky, if you’re not careful the boot soles will warp.

Obviously your right about the turntable being too small, but it would easy to make a larger one
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:729923

I’m surprised that there is such a large discrepancy between the actual internal length (last length) of ski boots and the size. It looks to me that if you have a MP 26.0 foot and bought the same size in an Atomic Hawx you would have 28mm behind the heel when you checked the shell fit, which seems over generous to me

Hawx2.jpg


Do the manufactures do this on purpose to drive sales? In 2014 world ski sales were estimated at around 3.2 million pairs p.a. and boot sales at 3.6 million pairs, I go through a lot more skis than boots.
That's an interesting chart. I have an MP 29 foot and wear a 27.5 boot. According to the "sole length" in this chart, even though I've downsized, I have 25-30mm extra length. I am thinking this must be the shell, not the liner?
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,788
Location
Sun Peaks B.C. in winter, Victoria B.C. in summer
The "sole length" in that chart is for sure the Boot Sole Length measured along the outside bottom of the boot shell and is the number used when calculating the DIN setting for a binding.

AFAIK the "last length" is the sole length of the interior of the boot shell. So that chart has nothing to do with liners.
 

skibob

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
4,268
Location
Santa Rosa Fire Belt
The "sole length" in that chart is for sure the Boot Sole Length measured along the outside bottom of the boot shell and is the number used when calculating the DIN setting for a binding.

AFAIK the "last length" is the sole length of the interior of the boot shell. So that chart has nothing to do with liners.
Ah, yeah. If I'd studied that long enough, I'd have figured that out. That would put the interior of the boot about 14mm longer than my foot, which is just about right.
 

Swiss Toni

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Posts
586
The last length is measured from the tip of the toe to the apex of the heel. As ski boot lasts are flat bottomed it should give a pretty accurate indication of the internal length of a boot.
Last.jpg

Apart from the part that centres them in the moulds the lasts aren’t standardized in any way, but the Mondopoint sizing system is.

The Mondopoint system is defined in ISO 9407:1991. It is based on the mean foot length and width for which the shoe is suitable, measured in millimetres. The inner length of the shoe is supposed to be equivalent to the foot length plus 1 cm. It is to be expected that the manufactures would add a bit on for the thickness of the liner but in my opinion almost 3 cm is excessive.

This doesn’t replace the need for a shell fit as it assesses other aspects of fit as well, and as far as I’m aware Atomic is the only manufacturer to publish the length of their lasts. I’m only trying to illustrate that the manufacturers seem to be taking liberties with the sizing.
 

Dwight

Practitioner of skiing, solid and liquid
Admin
Moderator
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Posts
7,441
Location
Central Wisconsin
Time to reread this info for boot purchasing. I know we all should go to boot fitter. Realistically, that is not always doable. Maybe I should say capable boot fitter.

The search is on in Wisconsin. Being asked by many friends what to purchase and the standard mantra line, just doesn't quite work here. Very few shops even have flexs over 110, so the goal is to research more, shop more and make some educated chances. Fortunately for me, my feet don't seem to be weird. Maybe some alignment issues, but we'll see how that goes. ;)
 
Last edited:

Sponsor

Top