This has been touched on a couple times here.. Plus Size Plus Gear?

[Ken_R]

Can we all agree with the boots first mentality that is so strong in this community? I've got to say that of all the plus sized people I do see out on the trail.. 95% of them are on snowboards.. maybe(probably?) because the snowboard boots fit them better..

Atomic as an example have the Magna last boots. They accommodate very large calves and are available in a wide range of flex ratings. So there great options out there nowadays.

Now, stylish, high quality technical apparel is another story. XL and below only apply for the most part.

 

[Tricia]

To the point of this thread, said $100 jacket is a women’s large, purchased in a fit of exasperation after trying on countless men’s XS jackets that fit like trash bags. I’m 5’5” and 120 lbs. If that’s a women’s large then what’s an actual large woman wearing? Lol, nothing.

First of all, at 5'5" 145 lbs, I kinda hate you.

Second, I've been asking this question for awhile.

I tell a few stories of my own issues as well as my younger sister. https://www.skitalk.com/threads/plus-size-active-wear.23584/


On another point:
Up thread rich said that better fitting/plus size clothing won't turn people onto the sport, but I will say, not having clothing that fits will most definitely keep someone from skiing.
Afterall, if the sport doesn't have plus size clothing available then it must mean that plus size people are unwelcome.
That kinda stinks.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

I think we've all seen how fast the stoke can go from 60 to 0 if someone's struggling with gear.

I don't believe that. I don't believe that for one bit.

There are so many barriers to this sport before, during, and after it's taken up, it's unbelievable.

The pandemic is just one recent example of barriers that constantly challenge lovers of the sport. I know many in Australia whose deposit for accommodation were not refunded because of lockdowns. A big financial hit. Yet they're booking again this season because they want to re-live that sensation of sliding down the mountain. It's a powerful feeling.

If the slide doesn't light a fire inside you, then the sport is not meant for you. And that's ok. There are other sports that will give you that stoke.

 

[Andy Mink]

I don't believe that. I don't believe that for one bit.

Believe it. I bought a pass one season many years ago and skied exactly one run. My boots sucked and I was so frustrated that I didn't ski for the next several years until a friend talked me into going. Same boots, same results. I wasn't in a frame of mind to buy new gear. I wasn't new to skiing either. I had "the stoke" for over 30 years before that. Gear struggles took me from 60 to 0.

How does one expect The Slide to light a fire if the participant is cold and wet with little hope of finding good clothing and other gear to fit well? The extremes of small and large face similar issues. At least the small can look to junior sizes. Where do the big folks look?

A good selection of large size clothing isn't available because there aren't enough plus size skiers because there isn't a good selection of large size clothing because there aren't enough plus size skiers... Chicken, meet egg.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Believe it. I bought a pass one season many years ago and skied exactly one run. My boots sucked and I was so frustrated that I didn't ski for the next several years until a friend talked me into going. Same boots, same results. I wasn't in a frame of mind to buy new gear. I wasn't new to skiing either. I had "the stoke" for over 30 years before that. Gear struggles took me from 60 to 0.

You weren't stoked enough in those years to get a proper boot fitting. Boot fitting is a process. I mentioned this in my spectrum post: Normal feet that fits mondo size perfectly<->Fits mondo but needs a lot of bootwork<->Fall outside mondo and needs custom boots.

You were challenged by one of the many challenges that bedevil skiers, but weren't stoked enough to overcome that particular challenge. That's ok. There's no requirement to go skiing every season just as there's no requirement to get beginners to fall in love with the sport.

 

[Andy Mink]

You weren't stoked enough in those years to get a proper boot fitting. Boot fitting is a process. I mentioned this in my spectrum post: Normal feet that fits mondo size perfectly<->Fits mondo but needs a lot of bootwork<->Fall outside mondo and needs custom boots.

You were challenged by one of the many challenges that bedevil skiers, but weren't stoked enough to overcome that particular challenge. That's ok. There's no requirement to go skiing every season just as there's no requirement to get beginners to fall in love with the sport.

I didn't know about "proper" boot fitting. I made the erroneous assumption that the shop sold me a pair that was correct as they were the experts. You said you don't believe stoke can go from 60 to 0 due to struggles with gear. I'm telling you it can and did. You don't have to believe it.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

I didn't know about "proper" boot fitting. I made the erroneous assumption that the shop sold me a pair that was correct as they were the experts. You said you don't believe stoke can go from 60 to 0 due to struggles with gear. I'm telling you it can and did. You don't have to believe it.

You could have gone back to the shop and get rework? Get a refund and go to another boot fitter?

You weren't stoked enough that season to do any of those things.

If you, as a seasoned skier with 30 years under your belt, can have one of those years when you're not feeling it, then you will understand why beginners with zero experience can easily give up on it. It's a very challenging sport, from beginners all the way to experts.

This inclusivity thing is an oversimplification of the sport. They think that proper fitting, readily available, and cheap clothing will solve a lot of the participation rate issues. No sir. Tis but one of the challenges that will bedevil participants of the sport, prospective and current.

If there's no stoke, I don't care if things go perfectly for you or everything goes wrong or somewhere in between. Stoke is stoke and is the only thing that matters.

 

[KingGrump]

To this point, while I was working at Northstar I remember a day when a ski instructor came into the shop to shop for goggles.
He had his goggles in hand, held them out to me and said, "This is the third pair of goggles I've bought this year and I have the same problem with all of them. Can you find me a pair of goggles that will fit my giant jew nose." *Note: this guy is Jewish*
It took some dedication, but we eventually found him a pair of goggles that fit.

There are different shapes and sizes of noses, bridges of noses, eye spacing, facial shape...Its great if we can address good fit for everyone.
Heck, I struggled with my own goggle fit for the past year.

Japan has a sizable skier population. I always wondered if they sell Asian fit goggles there. Or would Caucasian fit goggles be the specialty product there?

 

[crgildart]

Japan has a sizable skier population. I always wondered if they sell Asian fit goggles there. Or would Caucasian fit goggles be the specialty product there?

IDK.. the current goggle style looks ridiculously huge on everyone to me... Smaller faces have an advantage for that kind of fit..

 

[Lauren]

Just an FYI to anyone still using the term “Asian Fit”: Oakley has changed their marketing term to “Low Bridge Fit” in an effort to create more inclusivity in their brand.

 

[Tricia]

Just an FYI to anyone still using the term “Asian Fit”: Oakley has changed their marketing term to “Low Bridge Fit” in an effort to create more inclusivity in their brand.

When I started working in ski shops they called it the A-Frame goggle.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I always have to glue extra foam in the nose area on my goggles (I mine the foam from my old goggles) to avoid moist breath from moving up into the goggle and fogging things up. I am not of Asian descent.

 

[Yo Momma]

An answer and FYI for those of us + size ppl reading this thread looking for actual multisport winter gear.... go w/ snowmobile gear. Companies like Klim, DSG (women's specific and Wifey Approved- She's a Total fan of DSG) , etc.... The gear has progressed WAAAAY beyond ski gear in terms of temp options, fit, finish durability and most of all Larger size options. Besides being MUCH warmer, it's not puffy anymore if you buy the right temp setting and you can find many style and color options so you look like a skier. A large percentage of my new clothing purchases XL, XXL have all been in the snowmobile space and now Wifey always looks for snowmobile gear options first... Unfortunately, Ski companies are LIGHT years behind in these sizing spaces.

Puffy Klim in red, but @ that temp of - 35 who cares. I can stay out all day long w/ just one base layer underneath. Non Puffy Blue Klim jckt on a warm day. Both XL w/ room to spare and made up to sizes 3 XL... pit zips, back zips and fully vented for temp control and cordura in all the right places. No tearing when you are branch bashing in the woods. I have yet to tear a snowmobile jckt in the woods. Lots of shoe goo repairs on my "Ski" jckts from errant branches and rocks.

 

[Analisa]

This brings up a lot of good topics and worthy conversations.

• Custom is coming, but AI is being refined selling people commercial options through virtual fitting before committing entire supply chains to custom garments. A lot of the eyewear industry sells through virtual fitting on Ditto, but even they have some software deployments to really give customers accurate color given the lighting conditions in their environment, or reducing friction like holding up a standard wallet card so the AI can deduce measurements. From my understanding, virtual fit in apparel lags behind eyewear, but don't quote me on that.
• Custom affordability for the plus size market has an uphill battle because weight and income tend to move together. Weight-based pay discrimination is legal and documented. And weight correlated with other discriminated identities: weight and race are correlated (particularly for women, with strong genetic ties), weight and pregnancy / post-partum status, weight and disability (which includes things like chronic illness or mood disorders that don't impact ability to ski), even weight and LGBTQ status. None of those statuses help your paycheck. Most of the plus size women I've helped on the gear front have multiple identities that experience pay discrimination. And given that "middle class" income in our region spans from $80k-200k per person, cost of living is high. A lot of these women can afford skiing, but do so with a lot of creative budget hacks: about half work a weekend resort job or volunteer position that covers a pass. A number did a season pass or scholarship pass before transitioning to full-time backcountry (with AIARE often on scholarship as well). I do a lot of "gear consulting" and trying to provide a retail shop experience for skiers with a used gear / clearance rack budget.
• US customers in particular are increasing their expectations for brands surrounding diversity, equity, and inclusion. This is a great piece from Harvard Business Review on the rise of "corporate social justice." My personal theory is that government representation is getting increasingly wonky in the US between the electoral college and gerrymandering. We're seeing a disconnect between government leadership and beliefs of the populace. But people are finding a lobbyist of sorts from corporations. Industry had a huge influence in the "bathroom bills" from the late 2010s. We saw it with Outdoor Retailer shifting from Utah to Colorado due to government actions regarding public lands. "Voting with your dollar" can help the American populace get things that the electoral process won't. And while most outdoor brands can't influence national governance like a Fortune 500, they are feeling the pressure to address discrimination in their workplace, marketplace offerings, and broader role in outdoor culture.
• I don't think the "ski bum" is an accurate reference point for less-privileged skiers. They're usually single / child-free. Most that I know opted out of a job like engineering of software development, and either saved a lot of money before switching careers, or have that degree & resume as a safety net if needed. Their families generally privileged, or at least are financially independent. None of the people I know who have "ski bummed" have been repaying student loans. They also tend to be white and can live in more affordable, rural areas or van-life without making sacrifices around personal safety or a sense of community.

The article mentions climber Megan Banker, who started an organization called Climb Big with my friends Sam Ortiz (who's an instructor with the Mountaineers alpine club) and Bennett Rahn (who's got AMGA SPI certs). They've really successful at growing plus size participation in rock climbing, and many members of the plus size community are spending upper-3-digits to 4-digits on climbing annually across gym memberships, ropes, trad racks, etc. and they should really be a case study for the ski industry to watch because they've done *so* much more than schedule a few meetups, like:

• Partnered with all the gyms from Everett to Portland to help them measure their current harness inventory and order plus-inclusive units for their rental fleet.
• They partner closely with Misty Mountain Threadworks, a newcomer in the harness space that goes up to around a 4X and unclips at the waist so that hip measurements don't matter (whereas the mainstream brands like Black Diamond & Petzl max out at a L-XL straight size).
• They do a lot of "pre-education" on how belay devices and the belay process works, as well as the weight limits on ropes and auto-belay systems, so participants don't waffle about going while worrying they're too big for the sport.
• They organize meetups and belay classes, some led by plus size instructors, which means if they do run into any weight limitations, they're surrounded by community who has been through the same thing.
• To be fair, the barrier to entry for a first-timer is only $34 between a day pass and size-inclusive rentals.

In comparison, Megan tried snowboarding last season. Her pants fit on her body, but they didn't have the ROM for getting up from a seated position where you need to get your hips close to the board. Her instructor had a pole and would help pull students up, but there was a stark size difference. She quit the lesson and hung out in the lodge while her husband and friends rode. Her friends recommended skiing instead, so she tried the next day, but she never made it past rentals, since the cuffs were too tall and narrow for her calves and there were no buckle extenders. She went to a boot fitting in the fall, but I'm not sure if she got boots or has made another attempt. I'm surprised, given that the first two days were pretty othering experiences. How can you get stoked on a sport you never even really get to try? I don't think you can build a love for the sport just from spending a few days in the lodge.

 

[Tony S]

An answer and FYI for those of us + size ppl reading this thread looking for actual multisport winter gear.... go w/ snowmobile gear. Companies like Klim, DSG (women's specific and Wifey Approved- She's a Total fan of DSG) , etc.... The gear has progressed WAAAAY beyond ski gear in terms of temp options, fit, finish durability and most of all Larger size options. Besides being MUCH warmer, it's not puffy anymore if you buy the right temp setting and you can find many style and color options so you look like a skier. A large percentage of my new clothing purchases XL, XXL have all been in the snowmobile space and now Wifey always looks for snowmobile gear options first... Unfortunately, Ski companies are LIGHT years behind in these sizing spaces.

Puffy Klim in red, but @ that temp of - 35 who cares. I can stay out all day long w/ just one base layer underneath. Non Puffy Blue Klim jckt on a warm day. Both XL w/ room to spare and made up to sizes 3 XL... pit zips, back zips and fully vented for temp control and cordura in all the right places. No tearing when you are branch bashing in the woods. I have yet to tear a snowmobile jckt in the woods. Lots of shoe goo repairs on my "Ski" jckts from errant branches and rocks. View attachment 167465 View attachment 167466

Sorry. The pants are too fun. Can't be bothered to look at the jackets.

 

[crgildart]

Snowmobile gear is a good back up plan... But, it's designed for sitting on a sled with less physicality compared to skiing. It's warm but will get too warm while skiing hard, or hiking BC. Look for a lot of venting options if you're shopping sked gear...

 

[Yo Momma]

Snowmobile gear is a good back up plan... But, it's designed for sitting on a sled with less physicality compared to skiing. It's warm but will get too warm while skiing hard, or hiking BC. Look for a lot of venting options if you're shopping sked gear...

Very few young riders sit anymore. Most stand and ride snowcross style even on the trails. It's extremely physical w/ current sled designs that require an active riding style to handle the insanity that is modern sled performance. The clothing is designed for absolute freedom of movement and is highly articulated to ease that movement. Think, more akin to Motocross. That is the new design parameter for snowmobile clothing. They do have options for hiking and / or BC ...... shells etc...even gear as thin as XC ski gear.... just much more durable than the same level ski gear. They now cover the entire spectrum of temps. It's amazing how fast their gear has progressed to fit the new paradigms growing w/in their sport. They seem to have fewer issues understanding the sizes of their riders and their changing performance expectations. It's an entirely new sport from back when I was a Hardcore Sledder...... (ok shameless plug for the website started by my close friend and riding buddy up here in the NEK... RIP.... I hadn't been on there in YEARS but just checked and My Yo Momma name is still in the Search archives! LOL My old sled was a test case for the SkiDoo Rev 600 SDI motor when it first came out eons ago as they had some piston ring issues that Bombardier was evaluating. )

 

[crgildart]

^^^^Sounds like snow bikes and conventional sleds have been getting married and having children..

 

[fatbob]

OK as a larger skier this resonates and I understand how it must be worse for women who a) have different body shapes and b) probably give more of a damn about what they look like. I've found best pickings in ski brands at Columbia or Dare2be but no doubt you are pitched into more utilitarian styles above 2xl and you can forget about ski pants that aren't black. Other outdoor kit can work e.g. had luck with goretex for fishing and hiking from Cabelas. But basically you're perpetually in a state of "if its my size buy now and hoard as they may not make it anymore". Going custom is ludicrous - there is an addressable market that smart data ought to be able to fit. Sure some brands will stay skinny minny only but others will take their margin.