This has been touched on a couple times here.. Plus Size Plus Gear?

[EricG]

Is there an option to pull a pass for outright dumbassness?

 

[David Chaus]

Is there an option to pull a pass for outright dumbassness?

Or for excessive use of the word “bespoke?”

 

[LuliTheYounger]

All Bodies On Bikes is recruiting testers for plus size outdoor gear - seems like something a lot of SkiTalkers would be great at: https://www.allbodiesonbikes.com/plus-size-wear-testing-database

 

[SBrown]

Is there an option to pull a pass for outright dumbassness?

Or for excessive use of the word “bespoke?”

Pshhhh. Let them eat cake.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

I'm sorry to say but mass manufacturing is not the saviour for fat people. Mass manufacturing is a recent phenomena that's only about 150 years old. Tailoring is the natural state of the clothing "industry" before mass manufacturing. So this nascent industry (in historical terms), retail clothing, applied the same linear sizing scheme, which already draws complaints from normal sized people, to plus size people. It's now drawing even more complaints from fat people because obesity is an even more nascent phenomena (about 40 years old) and we're just learning that fat deposition is so variable in this population. Some sports can use linear sizing scheme for plus sizes because of the use spandex. But the ski industry uses materials that don't have spandex's stretch capability.

Tailoring and made to measure for the ski apparel industry in an even more emergent phenomenon that just happened in the past few years. Being new, they don't have the economies of scale of the more mature retail apparel industry, so they cannot charge cheaper prices. They're investing in R&D and new equipment, but without the capital reserves of the retail behemoths, so their chance of business failure is quite high if they don't make a return year after year season after season. Hence the higher prices.

If the retail ski apparel industry were really serious about inclusivity with additional sizing schemes for the plus size demographic, it would have to have some sort of custom made/bespoke/tailored component to it because of the variability of fat deposition in the plus size demographic. We don't know if they will charge more for this, or if they will even try to implement this component. Maybe they will just use the same old linear sizing scheme and call it a day, complainers be damned? Does it even make business sense for them to do it? It's a very niche hobby already and the fat demographic is an even more niche target market compared to other markets like the Chinese ski market. Does it make business sense for them to go after this market when there is this juggernaut of a ski market that is China and potentially India?

 

[David Chaus]

How clothing was made 150 years ago it irrelevant to how it is made today. Mass manufacturing is how most of us obtain clothing and keep it affordable.

To hold the position that most clothing ought to be custom tailored, and that manufacturers should be able to customize the sizing does not make it feasible today at a cost that is comparable to off-the-rack. Maybe someday there will be some variation of 3D-printed clothing, or 3D print the various pieces of fabric based, on a customized pattern that can then be easily and economically assembled.

Otherwise a custom manufacturer has to obtain a certain quantity of a variety of sometimes expensive fabrics (insulating layers, shell fabrics in a variety of colors, linings etc) for which there are minimum quantities required to order from a mill, not being able to predict how much will be used/sold.

 

[jt10000]

It's wild that someone can post so much with "questions" but not actually listen or want real answers.

 

[TheArchitect]

Rich, are you a tailor? I'm trying to figure out why you seem to be pushing tailoring as the natural state of the clothing industry thing.

 

[mdf]

Maybe someday there will be some variation of 3D-printed clothing

wasn't there a chain offering custom jeans based on photo-booth measurements?

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Rich, are you a tailor? I'm trying to figure out why you seem to be pushing tailoring as the natural state of the clothing industry thing.

I'm not saying it should be the natural state. I'm saying it was, before mass production. And that there is a shift back to it with companies like Made.

If people fall within the parameters of mass production linear clothing sizes (where they add an inch or two or three as they go up in size), then congratulations. You now have clothing that fits you perfectly and you have benefitted from cheaper prices made possible by mass production.

But if you don't, please be aware that there are tailored/made to measure options like Made. It may not be cheap, but that's just economics.

 

[TheArchitect]

They won't make fun of bespoke clothing. Made is not marketed as a bespoke clothing company for fat people only. It's mission statement is to cater to anyone who wants custom.

This is a strange thing to be worried about.

You are completely missing the point that the experience of a person forced to go custom due to their size vs someone who chooses to go custom for a perfect fit is entirely different emotionally. I'm fat but can still buy off the rack. If I gained weight to the point where my only choice was to have custom clothing I would be devastated. It wouldn't matter that no one would know because I would know. You clearly don't have any idea the amount of self-loathing some overweight people can have and you think it's a-okay to tell them you're too fat to buy clothes like the vast majority of the population so go get custom clothing. Really?

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

It's wild that someone can post so much with "questions" but not actually listen or want real answers.

It's only "wild" because I'm thinking 10 steps ahead while many of you are stuck in step 2 below:

1. Obesity became an epidemic in the last 40 years
2. Fat people demand clothing options <- you are here
3. All the majors Arcteryx Patagucci North Face etc concede and introduce plus size lineups
4. Fat people discover the clothing size linearity problem that's inherent with mass produced clothing that annoys even normal sized people
5. Fat people start looking at made to measure options.

Here's my prediction: Made will be acquired by one of the majors in the next few years, whether it's VF Corporation or Salomon Group or one of the private equities that control the major brands. Made will be integrated into the production lineup as a "bespoke", more expensive option. Either that or the acquiring company will completely retool their websites and overseas production facilities to be completely custom/tailored clothing driven. If you think how Arcteryx and Patagonia are starting to abandon wholesalers and selling everything in-house in their own websites and stores, it's possible to just pop-in to one of the brick and mortar stores, get a whole body scan, or get scanned with a phone camera at home, and choose customisations of your liking. The parameters will be fed into AI-driven production facility in Vietnam and the final product will be shipped to your address. They will have your bodily measurements in the system, so you can just order more products based on your file (good for brand loyalty) and they will ship it straight to your door. No more mass production of clothing. This will be a Just In Time (JIT) version of clothing production. The benefits will be marketed as carbon saving and inclusive (what can be more inclusive than making clothing specified to YOUR own measurements). Cue the marketing video of a paraplegic skier wearing custom-clothing made by this new AI-driven tailored production system.

 

[coskigirl]

It's only "wild" because I'm thinking 10 steps ahead while many of you are stuck in step 2 below:

1. Obesity became an epidemic in the last 40 years
2. Fat people demand clothing options <- you are here
3. All the majors Arcteryx Patagucci North Face etc concede and introduce plus size lineups
4. Fat people discover the clothing size linearity problem that's inherent with mass produced clothing that annoys even normal sized people
5. Fat people start looking at made to measure options.

Here's my prediction: Made will be acquired by one of the majors in the next few years, whether it's VF Corporation or Salomon Group or one of the equity groups that control the major brands. Made will be integrated into the production lineup as a "bespoke", more expensive option. Either that or the acquiring company will completely retool their websites and overseas production facilities to be completely custom/tailored clothing driven. If you think how Arcteryx and Patagonia are starting to abandon wholesalers and selling everything in-house in their own websites and stores, it's possible to just pop-in to one of the brick and mortar stores, get a whole body scan, or get scanned with a phone camera at home, and choose customisations of your liking. The parameters will be fed into AI-driven production facility in Vietnam and the final product will be shipped to your address. They will have your bodily measurements in the system, so you can just order more products based on your file (good for brand loyalty) and they will ship it straight to your door. No more mass production of clothing. This will be a Just In Time (JIT) version of clothing production. The benefits will be marketed as carbon saving and inclusive (what can be more inclusive than making clothing specified to YOUR own measurements). Cue the marketing video of a paraplegic skier wearing custom-clothing made by this new AI-driven tailored production system.

First, you’re wrong about where I and many others are in your steps.

Second, I am convinced that you have a financial stake in this, so what’s your investment in Made? FYI, even if I might want a product they offer, your asinine and demeaning posts here mean I absolutely would not EVER give them my money.

 

[jt10000]

Second, I am convinced that you have a financial stake in this, so what’s your investment in Made? FYI, even if I might want a product they offer, your asinine and demeaning posts here mean I absolutely would not EVER give them my money.

Gosh I'm so naive. I thought it was generic mansplaining - with the dismissiveness of info from a literal expert on the subject of clothing development etc and also of the lived experiences of several women.

Yes I know this issue affect both genders and I'm a guy - but it has a gendered component.

 

[EricG]

For a group that consists of members that are generally inclusive, positive and trying to move the conversation forward this thread really has highlighted how implicit bias and social stigma are still in full force. The blatant lack of social awareness by some is appalling.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

I thought it was generic mansplaining

I'll help you. The word you're looking for "thinsplaining".

 

[coskigirl]

Gosh I'm so naive. I thought it was generic mansplaining - with the dismissiveness of info from a literal expert on the subject of clothing development etc and also of the lived experiences of several women.

Yes I know this issue affect both genders and I'm a guy - but it has a gendered component.

I would have thought that as well and it very well could be but the fact that he has responded with the same tone to all genders that took him to task and the minimization of the cost issue plus posting the link to the company and multiple related articles tells me he’s pushing something more than just crap.

The thing is, if he were more upfront about it and less demeaning, people here might be interested. Instead he’s come in here and been nasty and dismissive to multiple long time members who have been friends on this and other ski forums and IRL for over 10 years. If he’s in marketing or public relations for the company he’s doing the exact opposite of his job.

 

[jt10000]

The thing is, if he were more upfront about it and less demeaning, people here might be interested.

For sure. Nothing wrong with making custom clothing more accessible.

 

[coskigirl]

All Bodies On Bikes is recruiting testers for plus size outdoor gear - seems like something a lot of SkiTalkers would be great at: https://www.allbodiesonbikes.com/plus-size-wear-testing-database

Thanks for this! I just signed up.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

*looks at his $100 clearance rack jacket, $400 skis, free flight, $80/night hotel, $12 burger, and $40 gloves*

I must be doing this wrong

To the point of this thread, said $100 jacket is a women’s large, purchased in a fit of exasperation after trying on countless men’s XS jackets that fit like trash bags. I’m 5’5” and 120 lbs. If that’s a women’s large then what’s an actual large woman wearing? Lol, nothing. And as a tiny guy (granted, one with a fairly average 31” inseam—bike fitting is a different story) the struggle doesn’t even come close. We can at least find technical gear that fits on our body even if the fit isn’t ideal.

Being limited to heavy winter coats that are like walking around in a sauna, snow pants that either fall down or are bibs that fit like a sausage casing, rental boots that don’t even close around your calves with the buckle all the way out and fold under beginner forces because they weren’t designed with 200+ lbs in mind. That’s the reality. It’s hard to try something out if the only option is to shell out $$$$$ on gear that you can’t easily flip before you even get your first day on snow.

PS plenty of plus size people absolutely killing it in the horse world.

Yeah so I thought about my post regarding the cost of the sport and your counter reply. I used examples that are on one extreme and you countered with the other extreme and I've been accused of being Marie Antoinette and out of touch.

The reality is that every person is in a spectrum when it comes to dealing with the sport.

Cheap<----->Average<----->Expensive

Flights:
Lives next to a ski hill or lives in a resort town<----->Drives a few hours to a city or state with a ski resort<----->Lives in a country without snow and flies overseas to ski

Accommodation:
Sleeps in car or tent<----->Gets cheap accommodation far from resort<----->Ski in and ski out

Gloves:
Has 10 fingers and can fit linear sizing<----->One or some fingers too long or short or palm too loose or tight<----->Has extra digits or missing fingers and need tailored gloves

Boots:
Normal feet that fits mondo sizing<----->Has some foot issues (bunions, spurs, etc) and needs a lot of boot work but still within mondo<----->Feet outside of mondo range 21-34

Income:
Trust fund kid<----->Normie with a 9-5 job<----->Ski bum

Skis:
Skiing style only requires entry level ski<----->Happy with mid level<----->Advanced skier that can only find ski happiness with top of the line skis

Lift pass:
Skis in a hill with cheap daily tickets<----->Skis in an Epic/Icon affiliated mountain<----->Resort that charges and arm or leg for lift pass

Food:
Brings snack and lunch in a backpack<----->Resort that charges ok prices for food<----->Resort that charges and arm and leg for food and beverage

Body:
Health body that can ski all day no problem<----->Has health/age issues that limits ski time<----->Disabled and needs specialised gear to be able to ski


Every person is different and will be truly be privileged on if they are on the cheaper side of the spectrum. In real life, it's a mix of privilege and "oppression", cheap and expensive when it comes to dealing with the sport. At the end of the day, it averages out. If your average is on the cheaper side, kudos to you. If you fall within the expensive side, that's just life man. You're not being oppressed. It's just the nature of the physical universe we live in that we're subject to the laws of physics and the attendant economics as a consequence of these physical limitations.

Clothing:
Fits linear sizing mass produced clothes<----->Fits linear sizing mass produced clothes in general but needs alterations or special order or limited release clothing<----->Doesn't fit linear sizing or is not offered sizing at all. Needs tailored