Three equal parts: physical strength, quickness, and balls

[geepers]

The subject was a line in another School thread (related to moguls).

Got me thinking: how many ski much with the last one. Personally spend virtually zero time with any form of anxiety of physical danger. Not especially brave but just wouldn't do it if there was much more chance of getting hurt than the usual risk of being in motion. (Do get anxiety that the skiing may be substandard, but that's about embarrassment, not danger.)

About the only shot of adrenalin is some-one popping out of the trees unexpectedly trying to be a front-of-ski ornament.

What's the situation for other folk?

And secondly, what do folk do to train for quickness?

 

[François Pugh]

I used to seek out the adrenaline when I was 30 or 45 years younger. Now that I'm an old man I don't really care about finding thrills so much. I'm as happy, no, happier, in blue square trees as I would be bombing a steep chute. Emphasis on would be; given the choice I'll choose the easy glades these days over the death defying chutes.

On the other hand due to too many years of being an adrenaline junky, not much scares me.

 

[HDSkiing]

Every season as I get ready to start what will typically be 100-120 days on skis (I work full time on the mountain) I tell myself, maybe I should slow down a bit this year, which I have in the trees and the bumps. But still I get a rush out of laying down trenches first thing in the morning with no one around at Mach-plus on the corduroy, I don’t think that rush will ever go away. Without giving away my exact age I will just say I passed 50 seasons a few years ago…

One area, where I don’t utilize option “3” above is in the moguls. There was a time when I would mindlessly just zip down them, sometimes getting airborne enough to skip over one or two...oh to be 25 again, or just shoot off the edge of a cornice without even stopping to look at the view. Fortunately, despite my lack of risk aversion, I managed to keep my original knees. I still love the bumps, I just turn a lot more, where strength and quickness will pay dividends.

I no longer can just show and start skiing many hours a day, for days on end which is often necessary early season for my job without pre-season preparation. For the last many seasons I try to keep some kind of training program year round. During the season obviously it’s mostly skiing, but I still try to get in a couple abbreviated weight training (upper body/core) in each week.

Off season starting in the spring I lift heavy, for strength 4 days a week, with cardio mixed in and on off days. After Labor Day I will switch from lifting heavy for strength, (lower reps/higher weight) to lifting for endurance (Rep range 12-15). I will also amp up my cardio. One of the best routines I’ve discovered is something called “Leg Blasters.” There are some variations and they can easily be found with a google search. LB are about the single best system I have found to mimic much of the muscles you use skiing (body weight squats, lunges, jump squats, jump lunges etc). For quickness, at least foot to foot, I will add a lateral jump over a small step at the end of the LB. Aside from just conditioning there is a muscle memory that comes into play with these exercises that correlate well with ski movements.

The training above does take some time and planning, but when you ski for a living, and others are depending on you to be on the mountain day in and out, and your getting older. It’s really not an option.

Great thread! I’m always looking for dryland/on snow training ideas. Hope others will chime in as well!

 

[Sanity]

The subject was a line in another School thread (related to moguls).

Got me thinking: how many ski much with the last one. Personally spend virtually zero time with any form of anxiety of physical danger. Not especially brave but just wouldn't do it if there was much more chance of getting hurt than the usual risk of being in motion. (Do get anxiety that the skiing may be substandard, but that's about embarrassment, not danger.)

About the only shot of adrenalin is some-one popping out of the trees unexpectedly trying to be a front-of-ski ornament.

What's the situation for other folk?

And secondly, what do folk do to train for quickness?

I'm very very cautious. I've never been injured in the slightest in any way in 45 years of skiing. Knock on wood. It holds me back, for sure. I've made some of my best breakthroughs when I've thrown caution to the wind at various times for one reason or another. I ski in the trees, but I won't "ski" in the trees. It seems like an unnecessary risk which is one reason I like moguls, because when I make a mistake, which I always do eventually, the consequences aren't dangerous, assuming you know how to fall.

 

[Seldomski]

My interpretation of the 'balls' comment is that sometimes you need to just go for it even if you are not sure it will turn out well. So it means you should be gutsy, courageous, full of yourself, over confident, don't think too much, etc. Turn off the brain and just ski sometimes. You may surprise yourself.

OK advice in some situations. Say you ski a mogul run a couple times. Now do it faster than you think you can do it and see what happens. OK now what about a steeper mogul pitch, can you force yourself to do that one faster? Advice to be taken in moderation... injuries and all that.

Reminds me of the saying: “There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.”

For conditioning, something easy that doesn't require much effort is switch to a more minimal shoe. Not for running, but for squats and free weights. This can help activate more sensation in your feet and develop all the little muscles there. Well, you can run in such a thing, but you will need time to train up to it. The impact in running is definitely significantly worse than a typical running shoe.

 

[martyg]

I totally do not agree with the "balls" part. Yes, you do have to push your comfort level, but it is a skill progression that happens in benign situations. You then ramp up a bit to test confidence.

My domain has been kayaking - in all forms - training under several national team coaches, guiding on big, scary rivers in EurAsia and Patagonia, cake guiding gigs on rivers like the Rogue, Middle Fork of the Salmon, PSIA D-Team level in instruction, etc.

What you will find.... those athletes that are seemingly trying to kill themselves are really taking very calculated risks. They have honed the basics with endless hours of drills until the movements are like breathing in their sleep. They don't do drills until they get them right. They do drills until they can't do them wrong. A few will not have the skill. They will be "durable". That is not sustainable.

As I say in both ski and paddlesports instruction to those who express fear (rarely verbally - but through body language), "Skill acquisition is the antidote for fear". We then change venues to a situation that is more visually benign, and get back to working on basics. I never put my students in objective danger. However the venue may be visually challenging.

With quickness, it comes down to basics - efficiency. On skis, if I have to do one minute weight shift to make my skis do what I want, instead of three massive weight shifts and corrections, I have all the time in the world. On the river we work on two things: 1. What I term "elegent boat placement". You want to thoughtfully line up your next move, so you are ideally situated to nail it. 2. Efficiency in boat handling. I will take a more advanced student to gentle moving water (where they are pissing and moaning that they are more advanced than this), where we can do a ferry. OK, it takes them three strokes to accomplish the move. Now let's hone that to one stroke. No let's hone it to zero strokes, just using the boat's speed and angle to accomplish the move. Same in skiing. We may go to a very flat green run to do edging drills at 3mph (where they are pissing and moaning that they are more advanced than this). They fall over. Then learning begins.

All of this boils down to one of my other philosophies, "Patterns of grace / moments of pressure": you drill patterns of grace in benign situations, until your body only knows one way to respond. Then, when the shit hits the fan, your body responds in the most optimally efficient pattern possible.

In most cases, unless you are on the podium at national events, strength is not a player - unless it is to compensate for shitty technique. Technique, and the range of motion to put your body in a position that optimizes how your equipment is designed to be used, will consistently win. Their may be anomalies, but they are not consistent. Not sustainable.

As performance physiologist Michael Gervais says, "You can train your mind, your body, and your craft. That is all that you have."

 

[SSSdave]

I stopped skiing truly scary lines long ago though there is plenty I still do that would scare many. Just that those things are well within my comfort zone. Am out there for fun and exhileration, not being emotionally scared doing so. On that note I as a little 5'6" 138# guy do ski a lot of tight trees in powder few other skiers attempt, especially in lower gradients big guys bog down in haha. Kirkwood in particular has lots of significant storms most winters and Heavenly has a lot of obscure tree lines.

Since grade school, have always been able to run fast and generally have fast reactions that is mostly genetic. As a California grade school kid played tons of baseball and other usual sports plus roamed outer suburbia wild natural areas. I learned to quickly grab all manner of creatures like grasshoppers and lizards. As a young adult played a fair amount of serious table tennis, arguable one of the fastest sports for eye to motor movement sports. As an adult roam many off trail landscapes for photography, hike, and backpack often off trails especially in the Sierra Nevada's complex terrain. Backpacking in wilderness off trail requires learning control over one's emotions as there is much to scare we Earth monkeys. All that through repetitive synaptic neural plasticity has built up quick visual to motor reactions to efficiently smoothly flow through complex landscapes.

Likewise as an adult skier over decades have spent winters, mostly weekends as a 9-5 m-f working person, skiing, especially recreational bumps. The key to flowing through such terrain quickly is not just generally having fast motor reflexes but being able to do so automatically in the animal zone fluidly from one's visual field without much input from one's pilot, brain executive function. Once such is established in one's neuromuscular system via neural plasticity, it will always be available as long as one periodically uses whatever. As one ages into middle age, use it or lose it, is critical as one's body otherwise tends to degenerate unlike when younger. That is why as a senior on my first bump run's each season after months away from slopes, like magic, I can ski long bump lines like I've been doing such recently. (Well still need a few days for staying power haha.) It's been long ingrained built into my brain unlike when I was younger and had to ski several days to regain skills each winter.

 

[SpikeDog]

To the OP's questions:

I do not train for quickness. Situps and pushups are about all I do pre-season, mostly situps to work the core and keep my back feeling ok. I'm not starting with much quickness in the first place.

Skiing with your balls out will eventually catch up with you. Most of my anxiety comes from overthinking. Standing at the top of a chute and trying to plan out 3 or 4 turns should take a few seconds, but if I linger too long, that's when I tense up. If it's that gnarly, I probably shouldn't be there anyway.

Physical strength and quickness are no substitute for technique.

 

[dbostedo]

Skiing with your balls out will eventually catch up with you.

In the form of very unfortunate frostbite.

 

[cantunamunch]

Don't let's talk about drag racing.

 

[Rod9301]

There's no substitute for strength. More needed than most people think.

Then technique, you need to really own the turns.

Once these two are in place, then you can talk about not being afraid, which will come from progressing from easy to very difficult terrain.

I ski a lot of steep couloirs in the Backcountry and progression of really important.

 

[pchewn]

The three parts are not equal.

I would put them: Quickness > Strength > Courage

Then I would add a 4th item

Skill > Quickness > Strength > Courage

I'm almost 65, the courage is gone. The strength is going. The quickness is still there as is the skill. My dad skied until 90 yrs old and all that was left was the skill. He still had fun and looked good skiing. I can see skiing with only skill left (slowly and carefully).

 

[mdf]

You are all a lot more virtuous than I am. I still like to have a ski slope scare me a little once in awhile. Not every run, and not terrified ... just that little frisson.

 

[Pdub]

My kids race. Balls are everything. Technique, strength and gear are critical. But the secret sauce is balls. My most successful racer is the one who has broken two bones.

Their best coach spends a lot of energy encouraging them to take risks. Improvement happens when you leave your comfort zone. But that's the one thing you really can't teach.

As a middle age guy it's definitely not the same, but I still get a thrill from pushing the limits a little.

 

[geepers]

On the other hand due to too many years of being an adrenaline junky, not much scares me.

Yep, there's an expanded comfort zone from cross-over activities.

This can help activate more sensation in your feet and develop all the little muscles there.

Been doing a good amount of foot specific work care of BPS's Ski Moves. No idea if it will pay dividends for skiing as our season didn't happen. But it sure feels better just walking around.

I totally do not agree with the "balls" part. Yes, you do have to push your comfort level, but it is a skill progression that happens in benign situations. You then ramp up a bit to test confidence.

Yep -IIRC it was Wilber Wright who stated that skill is developed at the boundary of conditions we can cope with and not in a sudden wild leap into the unknown.

Or, as I've heard from Canadian Nat Team instructor: "learn on the green, test on the mean".

Physical strength and quickness are no substitute for technique.

Yep, granted. Although some fast twitch muscle fiber would be useful. There's been a definite slowing down of the body with age. Minds going "ah, feet, you need to be going there! You did last year, why so slow??"

just that little frisson

Prefer my "frission" to occur on the lift. Wow, that was a neat run - again?

 

[4ster]

Or, as I've heard from Canadian Nat Team instructor: "learn on the green, test on the mean".

or “You can’t ski the hard stuff easy until you can ski the easy stuff hard”

 

[tromano]

I started hunting in the high country a few years back all on foot. Gets me in really good shape every fall.

 

[martyg]

My kids race. Balls are everything. Technique, strength and gear are critical. But the secret sauce is balls. My most successful racer is the one who has broken two bones.

Their best coach spends a lot of energy encouraging them to take risks. Improvement happens when you leave your comfort zone. But that's the one thing you really can't teach.

As a middle age guy it's definitely not the same, but I still get a thrill from pushing the limits a little.

Question for you- do you find that approach is sustainable and repeatable in kid's racing? Have any of those kids podiumed in international competition?

In paddling at least, we don't see that approach as sustainable and repeatable. Those kids wash out. They may do well at nationals, but then the field becomes too much for them. The ones that are methodical, the ones that are the technicians, go on to Olympic medals, and world championship podiums. Several have taken that same approach to their vocations, and built successful careers in very exacting fields.

 

[HardDaysNight]

“Skill acquisition is the antidote for fear".

Absolutely! In fact it’s the only antidote. Forget the psycho-babble - develop the skills instead.

 

[tromano]

With respect to quickness, I got a lot better at skiing when I slowed my movements down and did less but in a very deliberate and committed way. I don't really know how important quickness is. I mean quickness can help make one turn, but only if I can be quick, balanced and precise, so I try to be quick as little as possible. Better to have rhythm and balance than quickness. You want to be on time not early or late.