Three equal parts: physical strength, quickness, and balls

[oldschoolskier]

I have been injured skiing, hairline fractures in the spine from a seeming easy jump gone wrong. Did it slow me down or add extra caution, no! Hesitation in not an option. Caution yes, hesitation no.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Question for you- do you find that approach is sustainable and repeatable in kid's racing? Have any of those kids podiumed in international competition?

In paddling at least, we don't see that approach as sustainable and repeatable. Those kids wash out. They may do well at nationals, but then the field becomes too much for them. The ones that are methodical, the ones that are the technicians, go on to Olympic medals, and world championship podiums. Several have taken that same approach to their vocations, and built successful careers in very exacting fields.

Couldn't agree more!

I wish more teachers, instructors, coaches (and parents) would understand this simple concept in all aspects of life. Develop skills first with strength and fearless last for that final push when it finally counts.

 

[Bad Bob]

A fan of BOSA ball. Will use it flat side down and use it for a step over drill for a speed drill. As age happens think tht balance is as important as strength. Will use the BOSA flat side up for one and two footed balance drills.
Never been a particularly fast skier. Will push the comfort zone very little any more. Will go faster on an open groomer or quicker through the bumps occasionally. Not through the trees, they won't give enough, and it takes too long to heal.

 

[François Pugh]

Confidence, skill, strength. It's kind of like plant nutrition; if your seriously lacking in one ingredient, excess of the other two won't make up for it.

 

[martyg]

Couldn't agree more!

I wish more teachers, instructors, coaches (and parents) would understand this simple concept in all aspects of life. Develop skills first with strength and fearless last for that final push when it finally counts.

Our kid's mtn bike program stresses, above all else, FUN. After that is a huge emphasis on skill development. If kids want, they can transition to racing. The results speak for themselves: over 50 national championships, one TDF stage win, one Veulta stage win, several world championship podiums, two world championships, a handful of Olympic team slots, dozens that represented the US at the World Championships.

 

[TheApprentice]

I approach my safety in skiing like I do in any other dangerous situation. If I hesitate for whatever reason, I don't do it. However I don't hesitate often.

 

[Henry]

To train for quickness do an on line search. There are plenty of possible exercises. Here's just one example: https://www.nsca.com/education/articles/kinetic-select/5-reaction-drills-to-build-quickness/

Also change your ski technique. In Science and Skiing III, the abstracts of the papers presented at the third International Congress on Skiing and Science in 2004, three researchers at the University of Ljubljana, Slovenia, presented a paper titled "Time Advantage Using an Improved Slalom Technique." They measured the time difference between skiing a slalom course using the usual up-unweighting or extention technique (flex down during the turn, then extend to end the turn and start the new turn) versus down-unweighting or retraction turns (extend during the turn and flex down to end the turn). The retraction turns were consistently and significantly quicker. Look at the videos of any modern slalom racer and see how it's done. Retraction turns can be used all the time, and they are certainly what one needs in bumps.
Mikaela Shiffrin slalom

 

[geepers]

My most successful racer is the one who has broken two bones.

Whilst there needs to be a certain willingness to explore limits in speed sports this reads sort of over the top.

In young adult years competed in adventure sports such as motorcycle road racing and hang gliding. Neither of these usually reward a high ratio of unbridled enthusiasm over developed skill sets. In road racing the saying was "to finish 1st, 1st you must finish".

There's a couple of stories from motor racing drivers that spring to mind.
Jack Brabham (3 times F1 world champ) was once asked about the need for bravery. He replied: "These corners come up pretty fast and it's important not to let you bravery get you into trouble."
Ben Collins (The Stig) once had Jackie Stewart give him a pep talk. "Drive more with the head than those" (pointing to Collin's crotch.

In other words

To train for quickness do an on line search. There are plenty of possible exercises. Here's just one example: https://www.nsca.com/education/articles/kinetic-select/5-reaction-drills-to-build-quickness/

Think it's a general slowdown from no longer participating in sports outside skiing. And not helped by no skiing this year.

Squash was good but it was murder on knees. So looks like it's twinkle toe-ing around cones and along "ladders".

 

[martyg]

Whilst there needs to be a certain willingness to explore limits in speed sports this reads sort of over the top.

Totally agree. Consistency leads to success. Checking every box, every single day, and adhering to your training protocol. Injury = hampered training, and no progression. That coaching philosophy will work on the local or regional level. However you will never make a national team if that is your jam.

I love what Kate Courtney said, “Winning a World Cup is actually quite simple. Out race your competition by out training them. Out train them by out resting them. However herein lies the rub - people confuse simple with easy.”

 

[jimtransition]

I would say success in any discipline in skiing is down to a mix of technique, mentality, equipment and physical conditioning. As others have said, just balls won't cut it if you don't have the motivation and toughness to train hard. Also what could be perceived as risky for some, can be well within the comfort level for others depending on their skill level.

 

[Lifer]

Aggressiveness or assertiveness? Encouraging the latter is (for me) the more effective coaching cue.

A different question on 3 equal parts:

Technique - Fitness - Character.

Are they ever equal? How would you rank them in importance?

 

[Smear]

Interesting question. Fear in skiing in the past for me would usually be the fear of tumbling uncontrollably down a steep backcountry descent. But at the moment there is not much of that going on in my life... In the last years, fear in skiing to me is related to one situation: GS when it gets rutted, icy and a bit steep.

My problem is staying committed to edging when the combination of ruts and ice occurs. People that grew up ski racing have much less trouble with this, but I'm also more cautious than some of the other newcomers. I'm almost never ski out of the course. Some of my team mates can ski out 5 times in a row. But they commit and will probably be fast when they finally get down, whereas I feel like I will stay slow forever if I don't change my ways. The ironic thing is that staying committed to edging actually makes the skis run calmer when going through the icy ruts. Have really felt that on the less steep parts, but when it gets a bit steeper my brain and body just refuses to commit.

Also wonder how big of a role strength plays in staying comfortable in these situations. The skiers who are good at this can typically squat 2x their bodyweight and have the core strength to back that up. I can only squat about 1.3X my bodyweight on a good day...

Have almost never been hurt while skiing. In about 1000 ski days I've had one concussion and fractured a couple of ribs, and the concussion wasn't even my fault. This in contrast with mountain biking where I have been hurt a lot in little time.

So not sure what I'm actually fearing. Going out of the course could mean ending up in the net. And outside of the course it's often piles of heavy snow that could wreck a knee. When shaking hard it does feel like the skis might fall off. But I don't really deal with conscious thoughts about those consequences. It's just that my body just refuses to commit..

So one of my main goals of the next season is to be more brave.

 

[cantunamunch]

So not sure what I'm actually fearing. Going out of the course could mean ending up in the net. And outside of the course it's often piles of heavy snow that could wreck a knee. When shaking hard it does feel like the skis might fall off. But I don't really deal with conscious thoughts about those consequences. It's just that my body just refuses to commit..

Honestly, in your metaphorical shoes, I'd be geeking out on literal boot setup and ski choice. Tweaks in boot feel (tightness, rebound) and in ski behavior that results in feel can do wonders for confidence. IMO, much more than resolutions to bravery.

(I fully support your fitness effort and don't forget the hamstrings)

 

[Smear]

Honestly, in your metaphorical shoes, I'd be geeking out on literal boot setup and ski choice. Tweaks in boot feel (tightness, rebound) and in ski behavior that results in feel can do wonders for confidence. IMO, much more than resolutions to bravery.

hmmm... Feels like they could fall off. Very rarely do unless I do something really stupid like sliding sideways into a deep rut or really slamming the brakes in the ruts. Can only remember that it has happened twice in 3 years. Bindings set at reasonable setting (+III). Hoping that the oil filled piston in the plate is doing it's job. Boot rebound, ski choice? Don't have the luxury of a boot quiver or multiple race ski setups. The ski boot setup doesn't chatter on normally grippy snow conditions without ruts. The skis feels calmer the more I commit and put into it, but there comes the lack of bravery. I'm a person that is reluctant to stretch the edges of my comfort zone. Running gates on hard snow after 50 persons have passed is not always going to be comfortable.

Watch slowmo of good GS-racers in rough conditions. I think one key to success is that they have the inside ski in a position where it can take the role of the outside ski when the outside is temporarily out of duty due to "shaking". I know I have a lot to work on with inside ski management. But this was supposed to be about strength and balls ;-)

 

[cantunamunch]

hmmm... Feels like they could fall off. Very rarely do unless I do something really stupid like sliding sideways into a deep rut or really slamming the brakes in the ruts. Can only remember that it has happened twice in 3 years.

It may not be a reasonable fear, or even a reasonable anxiety, but you've stated a sensation like the ski might come off and implied a fear of getting tossed into injury. We may as well assume that something about the sensations you're getting from the snow is triggering those fears and anxieties.

Bindings set at reasonable setting (+III).

Binding setting has absolutely nothing to do with the sensations your boot+ski combo is passing back to you.

Hoping that the oil filled piston in the plate is doing it's job.

It may be, but doing enough rut damping to put you in a comfort zone is likely to be well past its remit.

Boot rebound, ski choice? Don't have the luxury of a boot quiver or multiple race ski setups.

Sure, I get that. Hence, geeking out to see whether your next setup can be better for your needs.

The ski boot setup doesn't chatter on normally grippy snow conditions without ruts. I'm a person that is reluctant to being the outside of the comfort zone. Running gates on hard snow after 50 persons have passed is not always comfortable.

Yup, been over my share of gate ruts myself.

I think one key to success is that they have the inside ski in a position where it can take the role of the outside ski when the outside is temporarily out of duty due to "shaking". I know I have a lot to work on with inside ski management.

I see that as an effect of good lateral balance (that is a stepping stone to success) and not a direct cause of success.

But this was supposed to be about strength and balls ;-)

Yup. Nothing wrong with strength, but we have precedent above for thinking skills fill in for strength.

My simple point is that better equipment setup can often fill in for balls.

 

[Smear]

It may not be a reasonable fear, or even a reasonable anxiety, but you've stated a sensation like the ski might come off and implied a fear of getting tossed into injury. We may as well assume that something about the sensations you're getting from the snow is triggering those fears and anxieties.

My simple point is that better equipment setup can often fill in for balls.

Point taken. Will try to look for those qualities if I get in a position to demo race skis or boots. Or more likely if I start hoarding more used stuff to experiment with ;-)

My first pair of moderns skis was a pair of atomic TM22 telemark foamcore skis. I guess the skis did what they were supposed to in edge hold etc, but the feeling they transmitted on anything chattery was effectively ball shrinking. But I had no idea about that before I got my second pair of skis (Kneissl Tanker). These would try to kill me in other ways but at least they would feel safe while doing so ;-)

 

[cantunamunch]

Hehe, talking of hoards, I think I still have a pair of TM22s somewhere if you want to try them again

 

[bud heishman]

Define "aggressive" in skiing?

 

[robertc3]

My kids race. Balls are everything. Technique, strength and gear are critical. But the secret sauce is balls. My most successful racer is the one who has broken two bones.

Their best coach spends a lot of energy encouraging them to take risks. Improvement happens when you leave your comfort zone. But that's the one thing you really can't teach.

As a middle age guy it's definitely not the same, but I still get a thrill from pushing the limits a little.

Pdub is taking some heat for this statement, but I think balls/courage/confidence/risk tolerance is huge to making real performance gains in any endeavor. I do disagree that a willingness to take risks can't be taught, but it is definitely a very slowly developing skill, far slower than movement skills. What risk is taken, and whether it actually involves the chance of physical injury, is salient to the discussion. Webster may say risk involves the chance of bodily harm, but to many people the risk they need to take is looking foolish, getting out of balance, or the chance of a low consequence fall. Not all risk is the chance of paralysis or death. Those are the risks that immediately come to mind, but those risks are not really the type that 99.9% of recreational skiers will face. If you put yourself in a situation where a mistake will put you in the hospital or worse without the skills and experience to deal with that risk it isn't balls you have, it is brains you lack. For most of us, most of the time, the risk we need to embrace is a willingness to look foolish or move into the next turn without completely regaining balance and control from the last one.

My children both raced, the younger still does, the older graduated from the program and is off at college. The youngest has a brass pair that has left me feeling inadequate on more than a few occasions. He also has a skill set developed over years of progressive training and risk taking that equally leaves me feeling inadequate. He would never be the skier he is without both of those things. My older child had every bit as much training and top level instruction, but didn't have any desire to push her risk taking and that meant that she never developed the same skills as her younger brother. There is nothing wrong with that decision in the slightest, but to say that a willingness to take risks is not necessary to become great is either using a very narrow definition of risk or not said with a wholistic understanding of skill acquisition. I am not trying to make a case with a sample size of two here, just giving a ready example. I am certain the Marty's paddlers are taking risks and demonstrating courage or they would never develop into world class athletes. That doesn't mean that they are hitting class 6 rapids on day three, but they are pushing themselves, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, and learning to deal with new challenges continually. The first time they rolled their kayak they took a risk. It probably wasn't a risk of drowning, but it was a risk of being scared, struggling, or having to get out of their boat and try again. Their first 5' drop was a risk. They may have done dozens of 4' drops, but there was a step up in consequence and risk. Those small challenges come at us all the time in any training and an athlete's willingness to take them rather than operate within their comfort zone is crucial to making efficient developmental gains.

I think the use of the term "balls" is throwing people. It has a negative connotation of foolish risk taking. In a few hours I am going to go and coach a rec soccer practice. At some point tonight a player will likely be faced with two defenders closing in on him. One player may put his head down and try to dribble right through them (foolish risk taking), one player will try a move to create space and get around them (developmental risk taking), and one player will play a pass to get out of the difficult situation (risk avoidance). The player who takes the developmental chance and tries something outside of his comfort zone is the one who will get better fastest and grow the most.

 

[bud heishman]

Pdub is taking some heat for this statement, but I think balls/courage/confidence/risk tolerance is huge to making real performance gains in any endeavor. I do disagree that a willingness to take risks can't be taught, but it is definitely a very slowly developing skill, far slower than movement skills. What risk is taken, and whether it actually involves the chance of physical injury, is salient to the discussion. Webster may say risk involves the chance of bodily harm, but to many people the risk they need to take is looking foolish, getting out of balance, or the chance of a low consequence fall. Not all risk is the chance of paralysis or death. Those are the risks that immediately come to mind, but those risks are not really the type that 99.9% of recreational skiers will face. If you put yourself in a situation where a mistake will put you in the hospital or worse without the skills and experience to deal with that risk it isn't balls you have, it is brains you lack. For most of us, most of the time, the risk we need to embrace is a willingness to look foolish or move into the next turn without completely regaining balance and control from the last one.

My children both raced, the younger still does, the older graduated from the program and is off at college. The youngest has a brass pair that has left me feeling inadequate on more than a few occasions. He also has a skill set developed over years of progressive training and risk taking that equally leaves me feeling inadequate. He would never be the skier he is without both of those things. My older child had every bit as much training and top level instruction, but didn't have any desire to push her risk taking and that meant that she never developed the same skills as her younger brother. There is nothing wrong with that decision in the slightest, but to say that a willingness to take risks is not necessary to become great is either using a very narrow definition of risk or not said with a wholistic understanding of skill acquisition. I am not trying to make a case with a sample size of two here, just giving a ready example. I am certain the Marty's paddlers are taking risks and demonstrating courage or they would never develop into world class athletes. That doesn't mean that they are hitting class 6 rapids on day three, but they are pushing themselves, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, and learning to deal with new challenges continually. The first time they rolled their kayak they took a risk. It probably wasn't a risk of drowning, but it was a risk of being scared, struggling, or having to get out of their boat and try again. Their first 5' drop was a risk. They may have done dozens of 4' drops, but there was a step up in consequence and risk. Those small challenges come at us all the time in any training and an athlete's willingness to take them rather than operate within their comfort zone is crucial to making efficient developmental gains.

I think the use of the term "balls" is throwing people. It has a negative connotation of foolish risk taking. In a few hours I am going to go and coach a rec soccer practice. At some point tonight a player will likely be faced with two defenders closing in on him. One player may put his head down and try to dribble right through them (foolish risk taking), one player will try a move to create space and get around them (developmental risk taking), and one player will play a pass to get out of the difficult situation (risk avoidance). The player who takes the developmental chance and tries something outside of his comfort zone is the one who will get better fastest and grow the most.

Perhaps a better term is a "GO intent"