Mid-Atlantic The Neverending Timberline, WV: Info, Weather, and Stoke

[crgildart]

Not much left but firewood now. I think he needed bail money.

Maybe he should try slinging dope.... oh wait...

 

[James]

Surely they could grow pot up there.

 

[Kemperski]

From what people are saying on Timber-lies Facebook, it probably won’t happen because of bankruptcy court rules, The US Trustee in consultation with creditors would have to approve such actions before they can go forward. I emailed a point of contact at Friends of Blackwater and they aren’t too concerned either at this point for the same reason.

I was looking at that too. I am confused how they can even make that threat as I thought they were not allowed to move, sell or presumably cut, any assets under the current legal status.

Could they cut all or any of the timber and wait for the legal fall out?

I don't think there is any limit to what they would do in defeat, including to salt the earth for 7 generations if they could. But i was hoping they were under some legal strictures

 

[Norsk]

Legally they cannot do anything outside the "ordinary course" when running the business in Chapter 11. (Yes I know it is a bit generous to describe them as "running" the business.) Ordinary course means what they normally do month in and month out in running the business. Selling timber is not that, of course, but I would not be surprised if the Herz clan thinks they can do it because they have done it before.

Of course they would have to find a timbering company willing to do it without court approval. Doubt Fred is planning to go up there with his chainsaw and start cutting. Even if they could find a company which is unaware of the bankruptcy, I suspect they would stop as soon as someone informs them that the owner is in bankruptcy and therefore what they are doing requires the approval of the court, and if they continue they could go to jail, etc.

 

[skidrew]

Legally they cannot do anything outside the "ordinary course" when running the business in Chapter 11. (Yes I know it is a bit generous to describe them as "running" the business.) Ordinary course means what they normally do month in and month out in running the business. Selling timber is not that, of course, but I would not be surprised if the Herz clan thinks they can do it because they have done it before.

Of course they would have to find a timbering company willing to do it without court approval. Doubt Fred is planning to go up there with his chainsaw and start cutting. Even if they could find a company which is unaware of the bankruptcy, I suspect they would stop as soon as someone informs them that the owner is in bankruptcy and therefore what they are doing requires the approval of the court, and if they continue they could go to jail, etc.

Also, if they were to do this, couldn't the court/creditors seek to (for lack of a better word) "garnish" the proceeds of any timber sales and prevent the use to pay lawyers?

What they'd be doing is converting physical assets to cash, and whether those assets are timber or lifts/equipment, the same rules are going to apply.

 

[Johnfmh]

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/28/wva-resorts-ski-operations-up-for-sale/

There is a more extensive article in the Charleston Gazette-Mail but it is behind a pay wall.

 

[Dr. Bighair]

so word on the street is that they have already been selling ski area assets....snow guns, equipment, etc.

 

[Skisix]

If they are really selling TLine assets to pay attorney fees instead of satisfying their creditors, and in any case doing so without bankruptcy court approval while under chapter 11, they are just digging their grave deeper.

 

[mmcshane]

They filed a motion with the bankruptcy court asking for permission to sell the 17PoleCat Towers and 5 PoleCat mobile carriages, back to the manufacturer for $72,000. There is a hearing on this motion on 7/2- in the motion they allege that First United (which has a lien on those particular assets) does not object to the sale, but no info as to all the other creditors' positions.

 

[mmcshane]

I should also add that in the motion they allege those funds would be used to partially satisfy the debt vis a vis First United, not attorneys' fees

 

[Skisix]

I should also add that in the motion they allege those funds would be used to partially satisfy the debt vis a vis First United, not attorneys' fees

Heh, well, it's not like they have ever taken in funds intended for one thing, and used them for something entirely different. Anyway, it's hard to see how other creditors would go along with this plan if proceeds from the sale would only go to First United? We shall see.

 

[Swimski]

Parsons Advocate 7/1:
Frederick Herz, Davis, was charged with one felony count Fraudulent Schemes. According to the complaint beginning on Monday, March 11 Sgt. G.S. DeWeese, of the West Virginia State Police began receiving complaints from employees of Timberline Ski Resort of paychecks not being covered by the bank. DeWeese stated he obtained a statement from C.B. Gidley advising that he had several phone conversations and text messages with Herz. Herz advised time after time that they were working on transferring funds from other accounts to the payroll account. After many conversations he never contacted Gidley, who tried several more times to contact Herz with no response from him. The total amount of checks is $11,199.60. A $12,000 bond was posted and a preliminary hearing is scheduled for July 11 at 1:30 p.m. before Magistrate William M. Miller.

 

[Johnfmh]

This just keeps getting worse and worse. I hope these charges don’t delay bankruptcy hearings and that a Chapter 7 conversion can be executed as soon as possible.

 

[powday]

They filed a motion with the bankruptcy court asking for permission to sell the 17PoleCat Towers and 5 PoleCat mobile carriages, back to the manufacturer for $72,000. There is a hearing on this motion on 7/2- in the motion they allege that First United (which has a lien on those particular assets) does not object to the sale, but no info as to all the other creditors' positions.

Obviously new to the conversation and not much to add other than the fact during while running at Highland Sky back in early June there are portable snowguns still on Salamander Trail rotting away...

 

[jimmy]

22 Polecats @ $3300 each. Does this "private" sale pass the smell test? I am guessing that half of the fixed guns are on Twister and haven't really been used lately. I understand as is/ where is and buyer beware but these are selling for 10-13,000 on the internet. They will be able to sell these unless there are a bunch of objections from the other creditors.

 

[Norsk]

Sadly this is one of the big flaws in Chapter 11. Leaving the bankrupt company management "running" the business often just prolongs the inevitable and wastes assets along the way. Piecemeal sale of assets, at fire sale prices, happens all the time in Chapter 11. They need money to pay attorneys and other ongoing costs, so they cut a deal with the lienholder to sell the most sale-able assets - some of the proceeds go to the lienholder and some to pay those ongoing costs. Far better to sell the whole thing intact and quickly, seems to me, but that is not how Chapter 11 works.

 

[jimmy]

According to a sale approval order, The debtor in possession has to prove that there is a sound business reason for the sale, that the sale has been proposed in good faith, that the sale price is fair and that reasonable notice of the transaction has been provided. I think they are two for four as far as meeting all of the elements. Hearing on the motion was today at 9:30 am. Guess we will find out what happened soon.

 

[mmcshane]

Just checked the court webpage- hearing on the motion to transfer venue and hearing on the sale continued until tomorrow at 11:30

 

[mmcshane]

Court decided in favor of letting them sell the property. Can't tell what happened on transfer of case to West Virginia Bankruptcy Court- looks like the hearing was held, but can't yet tell if it was granted.

 

[mmcshane]

Oh, also, First United was granted relief from the stay re: proceeding with foreclosure on the Winterhaven Lots- there are apparently 11 lots in which they hold a security interest and they (First United) are allowed to sell them at auction for not less than $40,000 per lot. That looks like it was agreed upon by all parties and in exchange it resolved the issue of transferring case to WVA, so its staying in PA.