crgildart

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The land is worth the most as a ski resort—hence the odds that it will be a ski resort are pretty good.
I could also see it becoming a snowmobile park. No need to refresh the lifts, just need good working snow guns on Winterset and Salamader so sled heads can run laps.. Fill in the ares inbetween as time permits. That's probably the quickest and cheapest way to have the property generating revenues again.
 

Johnfmh

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Some facts:
—Timberline borders a National Wilderness Area and a National Wildlife Refuge. Even in the current climate, it would be difficult to “strip mine” the mountain.
—There are over 700 homes around the mountain, some owned by very powerful people. Senator Manchin owns property in the valley, just to name one. Many, many high powered lawyers from the DC area own these homes.
—Mining companies have money so it is no surprise that at least one is a bidder. However, mining companies use their capital resources for other things besides mining. An insurance company owned Stowe for many years. Why couldn’t a mining company do the same thing in WV. It would be a good public relations move for such a company.
—There is a committed group of environmentalists in CV that would fight tooth and nail against attempts to mine Timberline but understands that the local economy desperately needs the ski industry and will tolerate some smart grown in that area.
 
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Dr. Bighair

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Plenty of people know who the high bidder is. The high bidder is not a mining company. The property would never be used to mine for reasons johnfmh lists above plus many additional reasons. There is no valuable timber on the property...it was timbered years ago already and for the most part all that is left is a bunch of dying beech and worthless scrub trees. No windmill company is going to pay a couple million dollars for a piece of property with a couple 100 feet of ridge line they can only put a windmill or two on. The property is not of any value as real estate development (vacation or primary homes) without a ski resort there.

It will be resurrected as a ski resort. Phred will be arraigned tomorrow morning at 9:30 on multiple criminal counts.
 

Squaremouth

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I too share in the frustration of the abandoned motel sitting center-stage in Davis. In January of 2018, a hearing was scheduled in Davis to address the ordinance involving BAD (brownfield-abandoned-delapidated) buildings, with regards to the motel. Nearly two years later, the property sits—a hazard and a liability—with no updates on the ordinance or the town’s plans to move forward. And while on the subject, the abandoned gas station on route 32 near Timberline road is also an issue.
I remember that, was hoping it would be removed soon. I guess not? The hotel looks terrible, Davis residents are just used to it I guess. It's been there vacant for at least 15 years that I know of. Recently it looked like the doors of the hotel rooms were all removed. So it will now be snowing inside the rooms? Really strange.
 

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I do not see a Vail or Alterra even remotely interested in Timberline especially is the disarray it is in, it just not their business model, they look for turn key resorts.
I agree, it's just worth the value of the land. I'm not sure any portion of the skiing infrastructure is salvagable. I looked up "land holding companies" and what they do is just buy stuff and hang on to it. They don't do anything. Also I don't think Timberline can compete with the PA ski resorts. To get to Timberline from the DC area you now have strip mining (gag) which is just a few miles from the town of Davis, so now you're thinking about arsenic and all the other nasties, and there's also a prison, then you get to the town and face all these decrepit abandoned properties. Not a fun place to vacay. Many of the locals resent the skiers and are flat out nasty to them to their face. On top of all that, the town will start another blog and critique everything a potential new ski resort owner would do. Who wants to face that opposition? Every little mistake they make will be ridiculed. That blog is really nasty.
 

dbostedo

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I agree, it's just worth the value of the land. I'm not sure any portion of the skiing infrastructure is salvagable. I looked up "land holding companies" and what they do is just buy stuff and hang on to it. They don't do anything. Also I don't think Timberline can compete with the PA ski resorts. To get to Timberline from the DC area you now have strip mining (gag) which is just a few miles from the town of Davis, so now you're thinking about arsenic and all the other nasties, and there's also a prison, then you get to the town and face all these decrepit abandoned properties. Not a fun place to vacay. Many of the locals resent the skiers and are flat out nasty to them to their face. On top of all that, the town will start another blog and critique everything a potential new ski resort owner would do. Who wants to face that opposition? Every little mistake they make will be ridiculed. That blog is really nasty.
While I agree that the path forward for T-line isn't clear and could be bad, I think you're being a bit overly negative. The few times I've been out that way I've found the town friendly. And the strip mine you have to drive past is, IMO, barely a blip and not really a concern for folks travelling there to ski. As far as rundown properties - yes that's an issue in a lot of small towns. I hope Davis can continue to work on that.
 

Squaremouth

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That is a lot to ponder.

Keeping in mind, I've never been in that area and don't know the ski area, its my understanding that Timberline is in shambles and will take more to get it back up and running as a ski resort than its worth to an investor to create something else??

I don't know, just asking.
Timberline needs a ton of work. The lodge needs all new windows and siding and flooring, etc., the building might be salvagable I don't know. I know there are problems with the electric and the water which service the snow machines and the lifts. That's the reason for the lift breakdowns and lack of snow making? The ski lift poles look fine to me, of course I'm aware of the accident a few years back and all the repairs last year. The gears look okay but I'm not an engineer. They could all be cracked or something. A lot of them broke last year I think. Locals say the whole place should be bulldozed. If that's true, then all you have left is just vacant land. The towns of Davis and Thomas are both in shambles. The locals I guess are so used to it they don't see it anymore. Of course a potential owner will look at that as a big negative. The skiing is awesome, personally that's all I want, but other skiers want great restaurants and shopping and night life. Yeah, I like that stuff too.
Davis is thriving like never before. Local businesses are seeing success like never before. Davis is not a city...so don't expect it to be like the city. It's a scenic rural mountain town where recreation is the leading draw. Most people who live here and visit the area enjoy night time skis by moonlight, camping, playing music and socializing with there friends, or just being able to see the stars without any city light pollution. There might not be bars or discos that you can drink until 2 in the morning and stumble home, but there is plenty of night life. The "abandoned hotel" is owned by a family who is asking way to much to sell it....but the town is organizing to demolish it and clear the site. Respectfully, if you think there is even a slight chance that the tline is turned into a strip mine, logged, or used as a wind farm then you just don't know the regulations, the area very well, or who the new owners will be. You are correct though the mountain has tremendous potential as a ski resort.
While I agree that the path forward for T-line isn't clear and could be bad, I think you're being a bit overly negative. The few times I've been out that way I've found the town friendly. And the strip mine you have to drive past is, IMO, barely a blip and not really a concern for folks travelling there to ski. As far as rundown properties - yes that's an issue in a lot of small towns. I hope Davis can continue to work on that.
The strip mining has really really increased. Unless you've seen in the last year or two... Before you didn't notice it, now it's just devasting to look at. Not to mention the windmills are everywhere, even in Dolly Sods. Personally, I like the windmills because it means that mountain isn't coming down, it's not going to be bulldozed for coal. Most people can't stand them though.
 

Tricia

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Some facts:
—Timberline borders a National Wilderness Area and a National Wildlife Refuge. Even in the current climate, it would be difficult to “strip mine” the mountain.
—There are over 700 homes around the mountain, some owned by very powerful people. Senator Manchin owns property in the valley, just to name one. Many, many high powered lawyers from the DC area own these homes.
—Mining companies have money so it is no surprise that at least one is a bidder. However, mining companies use their capital resources for other things besides mining. An insurance company owned Stowe for many years. Why couldn’t a mining company do the same thing in WV. It would be a good public relations move for such a company.
—There is a committed group of environmentalists in CV that would fight tooth and nail against attempts to mine Timberline but understands that the local economy desperately needs the ski industry and will tolerate some smart grown in that area.
:thumb:
 

powday

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The strip mining has really really increased. Unless you've seen in the last year or two... Before you didn't notice it, now it's just devasting to look at. Not to mention the windmills are everywhere, even in Dolly Sods. Personally, I like the windmills because it means that mountain isn't coming down, it's not going to be bulldozed for coal. Most people can't stand them though.
There are NO windmills on Dolly Sods... yes you can see the Mt. Storm windmills from Bear Rocks and other areas of the Sods but there will NEVER be windmills within DSW, Bear Rocks, or Roaring Plains.
 

Bananana

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Potential


It might be a windfarm. Just because someone is buying it doesn't mean that it will be a ski resort. Potential bidders have included windfarm operators, land developers, and "Financial Buyers", what ever that means. You all might want to read some of the court documents. The highest bidder has come from Timberline Land Holding Company, LLC. That is supposedly located in TN, but I searched the LLC records in that state and found none. Timberline Land Holdings Company, LLC is a MINING COMPANY as best as I can tell. With Mon Power right there, it would work.
You can read "Financial Buyers" as a synonym for private equity. Essentially it just means an entity backed by capital that is focused on making a short to medium financial return usually by levering the purchase with as much debt as can be obtained and making a sale as quickly as possible (often 3-7 years) in order to meet their return thresholds for the fund. Some financial buyers like to fix up companies and then sell them once they've achieved the low hanging fruit and some (especially ones that focus on small, distressed assets like this) are more apt to slash and burn and make money through a combination of flipping, liquidating and maybe re purposing. "Financial Buyers" is generally just used to separate those groups from "Strategic buyers" (like Vail), who would seek to operate the assets and probably derive synergies due to them fitting into the Company's operating strategy.


I checked the State listings in TN, DE, NY, VA, PA, OH, WV and MD for that LLC name but it doesn't seem to be listed. It might just take a while for it to get up on the websites since it would have been created for this deal. It's not likely that the entity would have been misspelled in the court docs, so I don't think it can be that "Holdings" with an "s" mining company referenced.

However, one of the pages was signed by a Daniel Moore, an authorized signor of the company. Another poster already pointed out above that this may be the former bank / (politician?) exec from WV.
 

Kravi

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I agree, it's just worth the value of the land. I'm not sure any portion of the skiing infrastructure is salvagable. I looked up "land holding companies" and what they do is just buy stuff and hang on to it. They don't do anything. Also I don't think Timberline can compete with the PA ski resorts. To get to Timberline from the DC area you now have strip mining (gag) which is just a few miles from the town of Davis, so now you're thinking about arsenic and all the other nasties, and there's also a prison, then you get to the town and face all these decrepit abandoned properties. Not a fun place to vacay. Many of the locals resent the skiers and are flat out nasty to them to their face. On top of all that, the town will start another blog and critique everything a potential new ski resort owner would do. Who wants to face that opposition? Every little mistake they make will be ridiculed. That blog is really nasty.
If the "prison" you're referring to is the minimum security juvenile detention center, then no, I doubt it's scaring off tourists. These are kids who got caught shoplifting, not murderers.
 

Squaremouth

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Some facts:
—Timberline borders a National Wilderness Area and a National Wildlife Refuge. Even in the current climate, it would be difficult to “strip mine” the mountain.
—There are over 700 homes around the mountain, some owned by very powerful people. Senator Manchin owns property in the valley, just to name one. Many, many high powered lawyers from the DC area own these homes.
—Mining companies have money so it is no surprise that at least one is a bidder. However, mining companies use their capital resources for other things besides mining. An insurance company owned Stowe for many years. Why couldn’t a mining company do the same thing in WV. It would be a good public relations move for such a company.
—There is a committed group of environmentalists in CV that would fight tooth and nail against attempts to mine Timberline but understands that the local economy desperately needs the ski industry and will tolerate some smart grown in that area.
I
If the "prison" you're referring to is the minimum security juvenile detention center, then no, I doubt it's scaring off tourists. These are kids who got caught shoplifting, not murderers.
I think you're right. It's a nice building actually, etc. I think I've seen the kids in town they seem pretty nice. Don't know if they're doing that. I love Canaan, especially in the Fall. It will totally survive without a ski resort, it's just too gorgeous. And if the ski resort comes back, that's great, too. I wish that hotel would come down, I know they can do it! Same time get rid of the houses falling down, it would be really nice for the town's folk. It's complicated but it can be done for sure. I spent a lot of time in Germany and Canaan Valley totally reminds me of that. If they can do that I have no doubt a buyer will get it a resort put back in there. Even if it stays smaller that would be cool. Half way up on the chair still has tons of options, beautiful green and blue runs can be accessed from just one chair and they are really nice. I'm sure going to miss it this winter. Unless a miracle occurs, I pray next winter is going to be awesome.

I guess I've been ranting but I hope the town just doesn't take the appearance of a new ski resort for granted. It's going to be touch and go for a while. They got to roll up their sleeves and make sure it happens.
 
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JayDubs

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Information on the entity Timberline Holdings LLC incorporated in Tennessee can be looked up here.
https://tnbear.tn.gov/Ecommerce/NameAvailability.aspx

The principal address is 1431 INTERSTATE DR
COOKEVILLE, TN 38501-4122 USA. Its the site of a Rib City Restuarant.

The mailing address 1424 VERNA QUALLS RD
SPARTA, TN 38583-1782 USA. This looks like a residence
 

wvrocks

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Some facts:
—Timberline borders a National Wilderness Area and a National Wildlife Refuge. Even in the current climate, it would be difficult to “strip mine” the mountain.
—There are over 700 homes around the mountain, some owned by very powerful people. Senator Manchin owns property in the valley, just to name one. Many, many high powered lawyers from the DC area own these homes.
—Mining companies have money so it is no surprise that at least one is a bidder. However, mining companies use their capital resources for other things besides mining. An insurance company owned Stowe for many years. Why couldn’t a mining company do the same thing in WV. It would be a good public relations move for such a company.
—There is a committed group of environmentalists in CV that would fight tooth and nail against attempts to mine Timberline but understands that the local economy desperately needs the ski industry and will tolerate some smart grown in that area.
I'm going to go out on a very strong limb and say it won't be mined. There are no commercially viable coal seams underlying Timberline. The seams that do exist are under approximately 500-700' of overburden, are thin and small in that area. Mostly the Bakerstown, Upper Freeport and Upper Kittanning. You can look at them, and other coal seams in the area at the WVGES coal bed mapping project under the Conemaugh and Allegheny Group. http://www.wvgs.wvnet.edu/www/coal/cbmp/coalimsframe.html

Permitting would be a huge fight even if there was good coal there.
 
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Tricia

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I guess I've been ranting but I hope the town just doesn't take the appearance of a new ski resort for granted. It's going to be touch and go for a while. They got to roll up their sleeves and make sure it happens.
Honestly, your general tone came across as negative and possibly with an agenda (from my point of view).
In general, this thread has been a good resource for healthy discussion and information about things as they happen and we'd like to keep it that way.

For sure, your "devil's advocate" point of view has shed a little different light on the possibilities, but your views have also painted the area in a pretty negative way, which others who are familiar with the area have dismissed for good reason.

Glad you're here and adding to the discussion, but hope you can find some light at the end of the tunnel and share some of the hope others have.
 

pipestem

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Admin in the house. To be fair, that area and lots of Appalachia have legit hard economic challenges most often originating from the same remoteness that brought the first settlers. I am selfishly hoping the 'luxury mountain home lots' are not so valuable on their own without a ski area, even a smaller one. Tbh though, it was not that big, only something like what 100 acres slopes? Maybe a thing of the past, but there are damn few better natural locations around.
 

dbostedo

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Admin in the house. To be fair, that area and lots of Appalachia have legit hard economic challenges most often originating from the same remoteness that brought the first settlers. I am selfishly hoping the 'luxury mountain home lots' are not so valuable on their own without a ski area, even a smaller one. Tbh though, it was not that big, only something like what 100 acres slopes? Maybe a thing of the past, but there are damn few better natural locations around.
I can't imagine that the homes and lots will be worth as much without a solid plan to have a ski resort. That, and the resulting tax revenue, might be enough to motivate the area to get behind revamping it back into a nice resort. I hope.
 

KeithT

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. . .

For sure, your "devil's advocate" point of view has shed a little different light on the possibilities, but your views have also painted the area in a pretty negative way, which others who are familiar with the area have dismissed for good reason.

....
I have been in an around the Valley, Davis and Thomas for over 40 years. Went to college 30 miles away 1980-84, spent many other times there over the years enjoying the summers, falls and winters. I would not dismiss the negative comments. In my opinion, the area and the ski resorts have been in decline for many years.

I would not complain about the road though, that is unfair. The strip mining on old 93 has always been there. Anyone remember the conveyor belt that used to drop coal on the road? Corridor H routing has been a fight since the 70s. The road could not go anywhere else except on that part of the front, everywhere else is too environmentally sensitive.

I am hopeful that new ownership at Timberline, the remodeled CVR with some snow-making improvements, and the new road will help improve the area.

I feel for the homeowners. Many times I thought about buying over there and ...........
 
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