A very common symptom of being "overedged" is to have the tips diverge at turn initiation.
The new outside ski becomes very prone to "railing out" and wants to continue in a straight line.
Good catch, Francois.
pliny the elder
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Tip diversion causes.
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
A very common symptom of being "overedged" is to have the tips diverge at turn initiation.
The new outside ski becomes very prone to "railing out" and wants to continue in a straight line.
Good catch, Francois.
pliny the elder
Thread Starter
TS
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OK, first off, I don't want this to be about me. I'm not looking for MA and @Mike King that profile picture (which I'll be replacing soon) is on a flat slope at very low speeds. Please don't give unsolicited MA to me on something you have no context for.
I humbly request that this thread continue on a theoretical basis only. I'm not looking for coaching for something none of you have seen in my skiing. I have two coaches for that.
Thanks all.
I humbly request that this thread continue on a theoretical basis only. I'm not looking for coaching for something none of you have seen in my skiing. I have two coaches for that.
Thanks all.
It's the #1 cause of faceplants! 
Sorry about that. I'll delete the post.
The main cause for my Tip diversion is to leave enough funds for my next lift ticket.....wait that’s not what you meant....oops, my bad 
So, in my deleted post, I talked about my tip diversion issue on my right footed turn. This evening I had a session with Tom Gellie where he diagnosed what was causing the tip diversion issue. For me, it isn't being on the inside foot. It isn't the the limitations I have in being able to create angulation on the right footed turn. Nope, instead it is that in executing remove and replace flexion of the old outside ski, I do not have the discipline to place the ski in a parallel orientation to the outside ski. So, I've got to work on my inside foot discipline...
A task for tomorrow!
Mike
A task for tomorrow!
Mike
Thread Starter
TS
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No worries, I had a bad day yesterday, had to be rushed to the hospital for a CAT scan due to stomach pain. Fortunately not severe enough to require hospitalization, just antibiotics and liquid diet.
It won't keep me from skiing though!
Thread Starter
TS
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In regards to @Erik Timmerman and @Mike King 's posts.
It may not be a Javelin turn approach because as you say Erik that should be a focus on turning the outside ski, not the inside ski, a common mistake people make executing it.
Inside ski discipline does seem to be an alternate cause, in addition to it being caused by too much pressure on it. Stand on it, it will turn due to the sidecut. Ligthen it, it may also turn due to rushing the turn initiation.
The counter-torque I described, which I do believe is related to Gellie's Javelin approach, is tied in with inside leg discipline. In addition as you said Mike, as one lightens and shortens the old outside leg it needs to be kept from rotating in the new turn direction. Counter-torque assists with this.
I do believe that this is more my issue (not that I actually do that, this isn't about me after all
When I'm managing the new inside leg well and look down I see no diversion.
Good luck with your experimentation today Mike!
/steve
It may not be a Javelin turn approach because as you say Erik that should be a focus on turning the outside ski, not the inside ski, a common mistake people make executing it.
Inside ski discipline does seem to be an alternate cause, in addition to it being caused by too much pressure on it. Stand on it, it will turn due to the sidecut. Ligthen it, it may also turn due to rushing the turn initiation.
The counter-torque I described, which I do believe is related to Gellie's Javelin approach, is tied in with inside leg discipline. In addition as you said Mike, as one lightens and shortens the old outside leg it needs to be kept from rotating in the new turn direction. Counter-torque assists with this.
I do believe that this is more my issue (not that I actually do that, this isn't about me after all
When I'm managing the new inside leg well and look down I see no diversion.
Good luck with your experimentation today Mike!
/steve
The rest of the piece is to rotate the inside foot the opposite direction of the direction you are turning. The tibialis anterior needs to be firing and inverting the inside foot.In regards to @Erik Timmerman and @Mike King 's posts.
It may not be a Javelin turn approach because as you say Erik that should be a focus on turning the outside ski, not the inside ski, a common mistake people make executing it.
Inside ski discipline does seem to be an alternate cause, in addition to it being caused by too much pressure on it. Stand on it, it will turn due to the sidecut. Ligthen it, it may also turn due to rushing the turn initiation.
The counter-torque I described, which I do believe is related to Gellie's Javelin approach, is tied in with inside leg discipline. In addition as you said Mike, as one lightens and shortens the old outside leg it needs to be kept from rotating in the new turn direction. Counter-torque assists with this.
I do believe that this is more my issue (not that I actually do that, this isn't about me after all
When I'm managing the new inside leg well and look down I see no diversion.
Good luck with your experimentation today Mike!
/steve
I'm skiing with my coach today. We will see how it goes. Plus I still have that angulation thing to work on.
It's tough getting a body that is in it's 7th decade to produce flexibility it hasn't seen since it's 2nd or 3rd...
Mike
BTW, Carv was useful in figuring this out. Everyone thought, looking at the video of my right footed turn, that I was on the inside ski. But Carv showed that the inside ski pressure on that turn was pretty much absent and the overall outside/inside ski pressure scores were in the 80s/90s. Then Tom went deep into the video to figure it out.
Mike
Mike
Here's some of the video from a month ago:
And one from a week ago:
And one from a week ago:
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@Mike King Thanks for sharing. Positive adjustment! What I see is that you consciously got rid of an unnecessary, preemptive rotary action of the inside foot and simply let the shortening of the inside leg and the resulting edge angle build allow the inside ski to track with the outside. Shortening the inside leg in alignment with the outside should be a major focus as the turn develops. It enables higher edge angles and support for dorsiflexion IMO.
Skeptic comment: Although I love technology, I don't think we needed Carv to figure this one out.
Skeptic comment: Although I love technology, I don't think we needed Carv to figure this one out.
I also got a tweak in my right boot cuff alignment...
not necessary, but useful.
Isn't it amazing how much impact cuff alignment can have on your skiing? I now have 4 days on my new Nordica GP 140 boots and the first 2 days I knew that something wasn't quite right. After double-checking the setup I found that my cuff angles on the new boots were at 3* out while my other two active boot setups were at 2* out. I reset the cuffs on the GP 140 boots and all is right with the world again. Having the cuffs just 1* stronger created a situation of "over-edging" and my skis weren't smoothly tracking through high speed carved turns. Weakening the cuffs allows me to feel like I can just "stand" on the ski and everything is stacked well and the ski sidecut is working with me instead of against me.
As I continue to "rediscover" some of these setup issues, it just amazes me how many people ski and may not realize that so much of what they're struggling with may actually be purely due to setup issues with their equipment. If it wasn't for the fact that I know that I know how to ski, I probably just would have assumed it was some problem with a lack of skills. This is why I try to educate fellow skiers (especially on this forum) to check, re-check, and then check again that your alignment setup is working for you, not against you.
Which way on the tweak? Less Aggressive or More Aggressive?
So what do you think HK is really doing with all those traverses in the beginning of the video? I don't think his focus is on the turns. It looks more like he's feeling something out with his alignment in each traverse. I don't think this is a drill.
BTW - That YouTube channel from Filip is probably one of my absolute favorites. He has the best stuff of racers freeskiing. Lots of a great angles in the videos to see the skiing from various perspectives.
No doubt that boot setup, coupled with the delta in bindings, can be a huge issue in achieving ski performance. Some folk will find it nearly impossible to ski at a low level with a out of the box, or rental, boot. I believe this is one of the main factors that leads some beginning skiers to leave the sport.Isn't it amazing how much impact cuff alignment can have on your skiing? I now have 4 days on my new Nordica GP 140 boots and the first 2 days I knew that something wasn't quite right. After double-checking the setup I found that my cuff angles on the new boots were at 3* out while my other two active boot setups were at 2* out. I reset the cuffs on the GP 140 boots and all is right with the world again. Having the cuffs just 1* stronger created a situation of "over-edging" and my skis weren't smoothly tracking through high speed carved turns. Weakening the cuffs allows me to feel like I can just "stand" on the ski and everything is stacked well and the ski sidecut is working with me instead of against me.
As I continue to "rediscover" some of these setup issues, it just amazes me how many people ski and may not realize that so much of what they're struggling with may actually be purely due to setup issues with their equipment. If it wasn't for the fact that I know that I know how to ski, I probably just would have assumed it was some problem with a lack of skills. This is why I try to educate fellow skiers (especially on this forum) to check, re-check, and then check again that your alignment setup is working for you, not against you.
For many other skiers, there are so many technical issues in their skiing that they never realize that some of their issue is likely boot setup. They simply do not ski often enough and/or simply do not care about the efficiency of their skiing to realize that there might be an issue with their equipment that might make skiing more efficient. It is sad.
And the biggest disappointment is that most retail shops have no clue about properly fitting boots, setting them up, or aligning the boot to their body.
The industry is not much better. Look at how there is virtually no information on the delta in alpine bindings. It is amazing to me that we have pretty detailed info on the delta in Alpine Touring bindings, but virtually no info on the delta in Alpine bindings. Sadly, even the folk here on SkiTalk don't seem to think that such info is important.
Mike