Tip Lead

[James]

Seems to be a mixture of both here. With squaring coming towards the end of he turn, paartic with upper body. Even opposite hand to Schlopy drill. Where the outside hand is forward, not inside.
Some fun skiing

 

[JCF]

Seems to be a mixture of both here. With squaring coming towards the end of he turn, paartic with upper body. Even opposite hand to Schlopy drill. Where the outside hand is forward, not inside.
Some fun skiing

That's my favorite of that YouTube series. I re-view it often, and start my days on the slopes with that little drill at the 3 minute mark.

 

[scvaughn]

Yes, the inside leg must be bent do do the pull-back. But with bent leg this pull-back still loads the front of the inside ski.
Nothing wrong with loading the font of the inside ski. It's one of the benefits. Dontchathink?
If the inside ski is to contribute to the turn, loading and bending the front of it is the best bet. It adds to the effect of the bend in the heavily loaded outside ski.

In fact, when making the slowest of turns on the flattest of pitches, one can create a turn simply by pulling back that new inside ski. Pull that ski back by bending the leg from the knee down. The foot goes back but the hip does not. The pull-back loads the tip to increase its grip, and lightens the tail. As the inside tail loses some of its load it swishes outward around the gripping tip, without the skier having to push the tail outward. It's like putting an oar straight down in the water to the side of a canoe. A turn happens because there's a differential between front grip and back grip. Do nothing with the new outside ski.

For instance, pull back left ski to turn left when getting off the lift. Pull back right ski to go right off the lift. Both skis stay pretty flat and skid their way along, with the tip of the new inside ski gripping more than its tail. A turn happens, and the friction keeps the travel speed down.

If every skier knew this then far fewer tangle-ups would happen when unloading the lifts. And more certification candidates would be able to make a pure parallel turn on beginner terrain at a nice slow beginner-friendly speed.

This is the way I was taught. It works on moguls, too.

 

[JCF]

 

[razie]

. My suggestion, which I’ve made before, is for a skier in doubt to get on a moderately steep, groomed, slick slope; make a series of turns creating early counter at the top of the turn (assuming, a big assumption, that one has the skills to do so) and a series in which one rotates the upper body in the direction of the turn (this won’t require much skill!). See which one produces better edge hold and loading of the ski. This should show why WC skiers counter and angulate even in gs turns.

The point about the skill is an important one - most coaches and racers associate lots of counter, especially early counter, with hip dumping, for good reason, which is definitely to be avoided.

 

[markojp]

The point about the skill is an important one - most coaches and racers associate lots of counter, especially early counter, with hip dumping, for good reason, which is definitely to be avoided.

A dump and a twist... lots of spinal funk. The 'feel the pinch' between the rib cage and pelvis is one of (IMHO) the worst bits of advice ever foisted off on the public and instructor clinics ever... right up there with mindless cuff crushing.

 

[razie]

A dump and a twist... lots of spinal funk. The 'feel the pinch' between the rib cage and pelvis is one of (IMHO) the worst bits of advice ever foisted off on the public and instructor clinics ever... right up there with mindless cuff crushing.

Agree - the cuff crushing should be mindful!

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

Wasn’t the mindless crushing necessary in the days of straight 220cm skis?

Off topic: This thread is eight pages and 147 posts long but the video in the first post only has 27 likes

 

[markojp]

Wasn’t the mindless crushing necessary in the days of straight 220cm skis?

Nope. Can't glide fast if you're hanging over the cuff of your boots... @Doug Briggs .... whatchya say?

 

[razie]

f topic: This thread is eight pages and 147 posts long but the video in the first post only has 27 likes

Oh, there was a video?

 

[razie]

Not a bad video, but it misses the critical point: what is the skier going to do: tip lead is controlled by pulling back the inside foot which, for all the reasons mentioned in the video, wants to get ahead. Although the equal ankle flexion is not inherently a bad cue, it is a rough empirical cue like he said. The more relevant aspect is the skier's action to control tip lead...

 

[motogreg]

I'm entirely unqualified to comment on this discussion, esp. this deep in the weeds, buuut, this vid is what I wish competitive mogul skiing was like, instead of the tightly controlled zipper-line speedrun it is. Frankly I find competition mogul skiing boring and uninspirational....

 

[Rod9301]

Not a bad video, but it misses the critical point: what is the skier going to do: tip lead is controlled by pulling back the inside foot which, for all the reasons mentioned in the video, wants to get ahead. Although the equal ankle flexion is not inherently a bad cue, it is a rough empirical cue like he said. The more relevant aspect is the skier's action to control tip lead...

Yep, exactly so

 

[Rod9301]

I'm entirely unqualified to comment on this discussion, esp. this deep in the weeds, buuut, this vid is what I wish competitive mogul skiing was like, instead of the tightly controlled zipper-line speedrun it is. Frankly I find competition mogul skiing boring and uninspirational....

I think he looks like a hack, especially compared to the two skiers close to him.

 

[James]

Could we get more random?

 

[Doug Briggs]

Nope. Can't glide fast if you're hanging over the cuff of your boots... @Doug Briggs .... whatchya say?

'Mindless crushing'. That's a new one on me. We typically used softer boots for DH than SL and GS. I had Nordica GPs for tech, GTs for DH We were trying to maintain an edge so we needed lateral support. The lack of skating rink smooth tracks like many are today required us to have mobility in our ankles. We would pressure the outside ski as much as possible but not so much through the boots as by simply standing on the ski. Gliding requires supple ankles as well. If you watch the vids from the 60s and 70s, you'll see our skis are off the snow a lot due to rough track surfaces bouncing us around.