Tipping instructors

[rustypouch]

I would argue that many instructors would expect a tip no matter what their actual pay is.

But not getting tipped wouldn't bother us nearly as much.

 

[Tricia]

At least at snowbasin, of the untold number of local ski pros we have worked with, between me, Madeline, and many years of various devo programs with three kids... Is that for most of them tell us that instructing is a side hustle, not their main gig. But obviously different markets have different circumstances.

We usually tip if we can, which is to say if we don't forget, to get cash, and if we learned something, which has never not been the case.

I have a friend who's son was a "team coach" at Squaw and later Northstar. He always looked forward to the last day of the season because that's when the parents tipped big time for the entire season. He made bank on tips, which was nice because he didn't get paid all that well otherwise.
He did enjoy working with the kids.

 

[Tricia]

^^^ I'm curious what @Alexzn 's perspective is on this since he has had kids in ski programs. And now his kids are coaches in the same program.

 

[Disinterested]

The question of tipping has kind is really several questions.

Firstly 'was my lesson so good I would like to give additional reward in the form of money'. I don't think this is an area that demands a lot of discussion on its own. Do what you feel.

One is whether it's an ethical issue 'I should tip my ski instructor so they can make a better living'. This is complicated. I don't think you should ever feel obligated to tip for a service which was objectively speaking poorly performed. Most, but not all, ski instructors are poorly compensated - some make a living wage without gratuities (e.g. higher level pros at Yellowstone club, Aspen; high level European ski instructors). Then again, the cost of living in and around ski areas is absurdly high, and your tourism/vacation home directly contributes to that phenomenon even while it pays their bills.

There's also the question of what you can afford - I don't think a lavish tip should be expected from people who have saved up for a one-off experience. If you're the CEO of a fortune 500 company, you should probably pay a decent size gratuity if your service was good. Some very wealthy people still operate in their lives as if they live in total scarcity - they don't tend to be great clients or customers in any hospitality business.

Another question is 'how high maintenance of a guest are you?' The truth is, not everyone works their ski instructor the same amount, and some guests like to demand their ski instructors perform services that are well outside the job description and sometimes taking up time outside of their typical working hours. If that's what you want to do, I feel not tipping is extremely rude.

The other is 'what kind of relationship do you want with your ski instructor'. Every big ski school has guests who have bounced between instructors for private lessons every year without having a regular pro. Sometimes they're unlucky. Sometimes they ski with people who don't know how to cultivate long term relationships. But sometimes they tip poorly, and may also be very high maintenance. That's fine. But consider that the instructors themselves have some discretion about whether they ski with you - so if you want a very good person to come back and teach you year after year, some aspect of the experience has to be good for the instructor too.

It's very hard for a guest to understand the effect some of their choices have on instructors. Consider, in the Colorado example: if you book a half-day afternoon private product it is objectively difficult to consistently staff that lesson with a top-tier instructor, if that's what you want. Why? Because they're desireable enough to clients to sell their services to them for full days, consistently. They may even have to forego 3-4 hours of work they otherwise could have got to be able to make themselves available to teach that product. You should probably tip if you're going to do this.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Tipping or gratuity is a way of saying taken for a job well done. Sort of like a bonus from an employer. Do you job as expected why should you get a bonus....? Its that beyond expectations thats what counts.

In tipping my base line is 10% (considering most bills have taxes on it the actual is closer to 12%), do less than expected it drops, do more it rises. If a gratuity is already added, sorry deal with your employer for your cut and remind them this happens only once as I won't reuse their services.

If the employer under pays, thats an issue between employer and employee.

 

[Disinterested]

You can make the same case for not tipping servers making basically zero. Maybe the system sucks but you live in it.

The entry level to ski instruction is 18 year old kids making 10 bucks an hour.

 

[markojp]

You can make the same case for not tipping servers making basically zero. Maybe the system sucks but you live in it.

The entry level to ski instruction is 18 year old kids making 10 bucks an hour.

$15.74 and 16 locally. In our crew, those 'kids' are amazing. Great work ethic, full of excellent questions, solid people skills, coachable, etc...

 

[Bob Peters]

I just read through this whole thread and it's really interesting.

I've been a private instructor at the Jackson Hole Mountain Resort for the last 20 years and was one of the backcountry guides before that. But like Mike and Nancy, it's not a primary source of income for me.

It seems that MOST skiers who buy (or consider buying) ski school lessons seem to believe that the instructor gets "about half" of whatever they pay for the lesson. At our resort and most others I'm familiar with, that's not exactly the case.

Here, an all-day adult private lesson (which allows up to a total of five people in the lesson) cost around $1,000 this past season for a 9am - 4pm day - seven hours. Instructors are paid a base hourly rate that varies relative to whether the instructor was personally requested or simply assigned and also on the various credentials of the instructor. A very senior instructor might make $50/hour or more for that all-day lesson, a newbie probably more like $25-30 per hour.

Until this past season, my impression was that the "average" tip for a private all-day was $100. Somehow, this past season that seemed to be closer to $200. Don't shoot the messenger, that's just what I've observed.

For me personally, the whole tip thing is a really uncomfortable situation. Most of my "lessons" these days are with longtime friends and I refuse to take tips from them. If they try to argue, I ask them to donate something to the Bridger-Teton Avalanche Center. When I do have new people for a lesson, I just go along with whatever they feel like doing.

I do know that a lot of instructors here feel that tips make up a really significant part of their overall compensation. That said, all the ones I know look on instructing more as a profession than a "job". They also consider it a responsibility. They want their clients and their families to have the best possible time and enjoy our mountain as much and as safely as possible.

Personally, I really wish tipping wasn't part of the equation. It is, however. It has been for the 40 years I've been around here and I'm pretty sure it'll still be here long after I am.

 

[Alexzn]

^^^ I'm curious what @Alexzn 's perspective is on this since he has had kids in ski programs. And now his kids are coaches in the same program.

Always tip your kids' coaches, and not just at the end of the season; small Christmas/New Year tips are always appreciated too! We always tipped when our girls were in the program, and now we know first-hand what those tips means for those coaches. Yes, for my kids it was/is a high school job, but it is hard job and before tips they get paid peanuts. After all, you trust these coaches to take your child to the mountain where the coaches not only responsible for teaching them how to ski but also for keeping them safe from all the idiots and yahoos that crowd the slopes every weekend. Surely these coaches deserve tips. And yes, tips make a substantial portion of what coaches make in a season. Keep that in mind.

P.S. Tips also provide an interesting sociological view of the skier population. The parents of the local kids always tip, they know the gig. For some reason,m it is always the rich lawyer parent of the most bratty kid who does not tip at the end of the season ... .

 

[Disinterested]

It's funny, my experience is local parents are very variable, since local parents are in my experience much more likely to try to helicopter parent the entire locals program.

 

[Chris V.]

I've been a private instructor at the Jackson Hole Mountain Resort for the last 20 years.... Until this past season, my impression was that the "average" tip for a private all-day was $100. Somehow, this past season that seemed to be closer to $200.

Good on'em. Teaching would be more of a sustainable career choice if that were the case everywhere.

For me personally, the whole tip thing is a really uncomfortable situation. Most of my "lessons" these days are with longtime friends and I refuse to take tips from them. If they try to argue, I ask them to donate something to the Bridger-Teton Avalanche Center.

Sounds like you're a great guy. But that's not really working for a living, is it?

 

[tromano]

Oh tipping.

 

[Bob Peters]

Good on'em. Teaching would be more of a sustainable career choice if that were the case everywhere.

Sounds like you're a great guy. But that's not really working for a living, is it?

Hi, Chris.

I did say at the beginning of my post that instructing is not a primary stream of income for me.

I freely admit that I'm a.) very lucky, and b.) probably not the ideal source of comment on this topic.

That said, this is a great topic because it does roll up a bunch of interesting questions. Despite all the challenges of trying to live in a ski town, it's really inspiring to see how many friends of mine have started with a core of ski instructing in Jackson Hole and developed that into careers that have been rewarding in many ways. They're doing important work in a variety of fields, are raising families, serving the community, and living interesting and productive lives.

Best of all, they get the occasional "compensation" of seeing incredible joy on people's faces when they have that lifetime ski experience.