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Tipping instructors

FlyingAce

Out on the slopes
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Dec 22, 2019
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499
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Taos, NM
I take privates every season. Where I ski (Taos) charges ~$1600 for 15 hours of instruction and I tip roughly 30-35% of the cost of lesson. My instructor said he gets less than 50% of what I paid to the ski school.
Above and beyond for me was when my instructor carried my skis when we hiked the ridge.
 

jimidut

Skier since Rope Tow days
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Joined
Mar 13, 2023
Posts
26
Location
Central PA
I taught till about 6 years ago at what is called a "Learning Area". What that means is the area is close to metro areas so ALOT of people take their baby steps on skiis here. Our group lessons on big days were packed with first timers who were likely headed to a chairlift at lessons end whether we got them there or not. As instructors we were up to our necks in students wanting to learn. We did our best to get a group of 6 to 12 students up the baby chair so we could have that first chair ride end safely. I got some tips but most of my clients figured we were paid well I guess. We got our kicks and joy by jawing about the day I got 18 first time adults up the chair or somebody got their fist timers down a black in one lesson. We would have loved tips cause we were paid 8 bucks an hour. One student, or 18. Privates went to the elite fleet. (Teachers with senority). They probly got tips on top of that too. We wouldn't have cared but some of em were bogus instructors and thought they were above teaching kids.
The downfall to "learning areas" was we did our job too well. The hill was so small that once they learned, they turned to a bigger hill, or just bombed along with their crew, learning on the way. Return lessons were nonexistent, so any effort you spent was the next area instructors reward.
Of course I would've enjoyed more recognition and reward, but knowing I taught them to ski safely and that learning to turn made their day, was, and still is, good enough for me
 

VickieH

Contrarian
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Nov 13, 2015
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1,934
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Denver area
Above and beyond for me was when my instructor carried my skis when we hiked the ridge.
I'll see yours and raise you one --

I took a 3-hour private lesson every 2 weeks from an L3 during the 20-21 season. During one lesson, he explained something he wanted me to do and I said "Lito!" He wasn't familiar with Lito Tejada Flores and Breakthrough on the New Skis. By my next lesson, he had bought and read the book and written a page of notes on the key topics that were most important for my skiing at that time. Awesome instructor.

@mdf had a guideline he shared with us. Tip = $20/hour, divided by # of students. It was an older guideline so I increased it to $25-30/hour and then round up/down.
 

tube77

Getting on the lift
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Feb 4, 2019
Posts
245
I got paid $12.5/hour plus some $ incentives. In case of two hour private lessons, I got paid somewhere around $35 and there were no tips from most of the my private lessons.
 

lisamamot

Lisa MA MOT
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Feb 6, 2019
Posts
513
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MA and ME
I don't see how this is any different than dining. You tip in that setting, your subsidizing the servers wages. When you go on a guided hunt you tip the guide, you subsidize their wages. When you take a caddy golfing, you tip, you subsidize their wages. I fail to see how tipping a ski instructor is any different.
I don't play tennis or golf or hunt. I was however a horseback rider from when I was 6 years old through college.

I have no idea what the pay structure is between a barn owner and their instructor (sometimes it is one in the same, other times not), but in all those years of being a barn rat (a bunch of us cleaned 3 stalls/day to earn weekly lessons). Tipping was not a thing even for cash paying students.

I also skied growing up 50+ years ago, but had no instruction other than from my dad; fast forward to adult hood and a 25 year hiatus from skiing. When I got back into skiing, and took my daughter to learn to ski, based on my riding experience I initially had no idea tipping was a thing.

My son also learned to ski around the same time as his sister, but he skis with adaptive. Some are volunteers and cannot accept tips (Big Sky and Sunday River) others are paid and accept tips (Winter Park). It is not clear cut with Adaptive so now I ask - at Big Sky we did pay for the lesson, but I was told they cannot accept tips since the volunteers receive a pass. At Sunday River the lesson is free to the participant, including lift ticket, and you cannot tip; I have donated to the organization and I am now a volunteer.
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
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So you actually think the current structure where the Ski Resort pockets $850 of the lesson charge and the instructor $150 is fair and reasonable?

No one puts a gun to an instructor and requires them to instruct for a living. On the other hand resorts forbid independant contractors from the slopes as well. The current system is not a good one. Better, fair, compensation would no doubt lead to better instruction.

If you read the thread, Nancy's comments, and are familiar with the ski instruction industry, you'll know that the 4 Aspen resorts offer the best compensation in the industry in NA. I'd imagine for an experienced L3, they'd be compensated a much much higher percentage of the price of the lesson than the example you've given. In short, you're arguing with the wrong person and company.
 

Quandary

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If you read the thread, Nancy's comments, and are familiar with the ski instruction industry, you'll know that the 4 Aspen resorts offer the best compensation in the industry in NA. I'd imagine for an experienced L3, they'd be compensated a much much higher percentage of the price of the lesson than the example you've given. In short, you're arguing with the wrong person and company.
Obviously I know that. I am sure you read my subsequent posts pointing that out. I am also very familiar with the "ski instruction industry". The point has nothing to do with Aspen paying more, it's still not a fair wage. Ski resorts do not compensate instructors fairly, particularly full time L2s and L3s, including Aspen. Additionally tipping is appropriate when you juxtapose ski instructing to similar professions, most notably hunting and fishing guiding. Unfortunately tipping is the method of compensation in the U.S. for these types of jobs. It would certainly be better if we followed the European model and employers compensated their employees fairly rather than relying on the whims of a customer tipping. If you really want me to get going let's talk the restaurant industry.........
 

dbostedo

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Unfortunately tipping is the method of compensation in the U.S. for these types of jobs. It would certainly be better if we followed the European model and employers compensated their employees fairly rather than relying on the whims of a customer tipping.
I think that was the point of the original post you commented on. It wasn't just saying people shouldn't tip.
 

ThomasH

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Mar 17, 2019
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east
Most resorts use the scheme of labeling instructors as "seasonal workers" to pay them less than minimum wage. There's nothing more demoralizing for an instructor than busting their butt to deliver a quality lesson (including picking people up off the snow)...and then receiving no tip.
Thank you for consideration of them- "tips are appreciated"!
 

fatbob

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Most resorts use the scheme of labeling instructors as "seasonal workers" to pay them less than minimum wage. There's nothing more demoralizing for an instructor than busting their butt to deliver a quality lesson (including picking people up off the snow)...and then receiving no tip.
Thank you for consideration of them- "tips are appreciated"!


I still think this is part of the problem with the US ski instruction industry this passive aggressive attitude towards tips from a public that just don't know and are already stung by lesson price while taking an entirely supine approach to labour organisation and negotiation.
 

Sherman89

Booting up
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Nevada
Ski instruction is similar to the trucing industry, when the supply of drivers is high the wage scale is low---when the driver supply is low as in what we are seeing today the driver wage is going up. As long as the ski industry has a good supply of non-certified instructors wages will tend be on the low side. The skiing public generally does not know any better. I have taught skiing and coached racers for 50+ years and in all that I have not been asked if I am certified to teach or coach by a student or parent. By the way I am a CSIA Level 3 instructor and Canadian Coaches Level2.
 

SkierGolferNH

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Dec 5, 2018
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45
FYI, we instructors take lessons too. At PSIA National Academy, for example we clinic for five days and usually tip the clinician $100 $200 each.
 

markojp

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Most resorts use the scheme of labeling instructors as "seasonal workers" to pay them less than minimum wage. There's nothing more demoralizing for an instructor than busting their butt to deliver a quality lesson (including picking people up off the snow)...and then receiving no tip.
Thank you for consideration of them- "tips are appreciated"!

This is illegal in WA and in the rest of the other 49 states I'd venture to guess. I don't personally know anyone in any job working for less than legal min wage.
 

Quandary

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Ski instruction is similar to the trucing industry, when the supply of drivers is high the wage scale is low---when the driver supply is low as in what we are seeing today the driver wage is going up. As long as the ski industry has a good supply of non-certified instructors wages will tend be on the low side. The skiing public generally does not know any better. I have taught skiing and coached racers for 50+ years and in all that I have not been asked if I am certified to teach or coach by a student or parent. By the way I am a CSIA Level 3 instructor and Canadian Coaches Level2.
This particularly true when resorts are willing to do what Breckenridge did this year and hire people as instructors who literally do not know how to ski. They tried to teach how to ski before things got busy....
 

dbostedo

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This is illegal in WA and in the rest of the other 49 states I'd venture to guess. I don't personally know anyone in any job working for less than legal min wage.
That seems very common with wait staff at restaurants. The federal law (which applies if the state doesn't have any overriding rules) is, per the Department of Labor:

"What is the minimum wage for workers who receive tips?

An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

Some states have minimum wage laws specific to tipped employees. When an employee is subject to both the federal and state wage laws, the employee is entitled to the provisions of each law which provide the greater benefits."


Washington, as you stated, has laws that explicity state that tips cannot be used toward the minimum wage pay; and they have a higher minimum wage of $15.74. But some states pay tipped employees less that the $7.25 minimum, and then if the tips don't get them to $7.25, only owe the difference.
 

ThomasH

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east
This particularly true when resorts are willing to do what Breckenridge did this year and hire people as instructors who literally do not know how to ski. They tried to teach how to ski before things got busy....
wtaf
 

ThomasH

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Mar 17, 2019
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east
This is illegal in WA and in the rest of the other 49 states I'd venture to guess. I don't personally know anyone in any job working for less than legal min wage.
WADR you guessed wrong. I know plenty.
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
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WADR you guessed wrong. I know plenty.

I don't know anyone in WA in the ski industry who isn't paid at least state min. wage. A couple places are volunteer organizations... I think Outdoors For All, and a couple clubs, but that's pretty much it. I've never NOT been paid at least minimum wage for anything I've ever done in the ski industry here.

(What does WADR mean?)
 

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