I've seen this play before. The instruction isn't meant to make you actually use the inside ski to turn (like a white-pass turn). It's just to allow your subconscious mind to tip your outside ski without forcing it into having a big lead in leaning sooner and farther than the inside ski. It works for some folk. For the other few, it trips them up (like it did me the first time I tried it).While I understand your point of view, it is the outside ski that is assigned the workload and most skiers think they are on a higher edge than they actually are. If you are using the inside ski to pull you into the turn, I think that is just a sign that you don't have total command of the outside ski. The inside leg plays a crucial role in the outside achieving strongly supported high edge angles by enabling advanced angulation. Back in the day, focusing on tipping the inside leg was called "hooking" and considered a cheat move to develop the turn.
Yep, for most people paying attention to the inside ski auto-magically makes the outside ski do the right thing.I've seen this play before. The instruction isn't meant to make you actually use the inside ski to turn (like a white-pass turn). It's just to allow your subconscious mind to tip your outside ski without forcing it into having a big lead in leaning sooner and farther than the inside ski. It works for some folk. For the other few, it trips them up (like it did me the first time I tried it).
Here's what happens...stand up. Raise one foot an inch off the floor. Invert the foot so the big toe edge is high, really high, and keep inverting (tipping) it so it gets higher. Your body will start to fall in that direction. You'll semi-automatically angulate and counter (to facilitate the angulation) in order to balance which then gives angles to the standing leg and thus puts the standing foot (ski) on edge. It doesn't work well if the lightened foot carries much weight, and it's a lot harder if the legs are more than a bit apart.
Maybe that's why we see so many instances of tip diversion in advanced skiers. Are you advocating Tip diversion?Yep, for most people paying attention to the inside ski auto-magically makes the outside ski do the right thing.
I think shortening the inside leg is more of a priority than tipping it unless A-framing is an issue but then again, if you are releasing pressure by shortening, the only reason for A-framing is laziness.I've seen this play before. The instruction isn't meant to make you actually use the inside ski to turn (like a white-pass turn). It's just to allow your subconscious mind to tip your outside ski without forcing it into having a big lead in leaning sooner and farther than the inside ski. It works for some folk. For the other few, it trips them up (like it did me the first time I tried it).
I doubt anyone in this thread is promoting tip diversion.Maybe that's why we see so many instances of tip diversion in advanced skiers. Are you advocating Tip diversion?
I agree so why promote a movement that could cause it?I doubt anyone in this thread is promoting tip diversion.
Yep, for most people paying attention to the inside ski auto-magically makes the outside ski do the right thing.
@JESinstr, @mdf's post does not conflict in any way with what Paul Lorenz is promoting in that video you just posted. He is demonstrating how softening or flexing the new inside leg will create weight transfer to the new outside ski and start the new turn. In other words, doing something with the new inside ski does make the outside ski do the right thing.Maybe that's why we see so many instances of tip diversion in advanced skiers. Are you advocating Tip diversion?
I'm not a fan of that video. The script implies that lightening the inside ski is all it takes.I agree so why promote a movement that could cause it?
I think this video by Paul Lorentz covers my point of view although I would use the word Mass vs Weight .
LF, This sidebar started with@JESinstr, @mdf's post does not conflict in any way with what Paul Lorenz is promoting in that video you just posted. He is demonstrating how softening or flexing the new inside leg will create weight transfer to the new outside ski and start the new turn. In other words, doing something with the new inside ski does make the outside ski do the right thing.
My comments have been within the context of responding to the above post. I apologize for any confusionI think that is unnecessary to focus on the new outside ski.
If you only focus on tipping the new inside ski everything is cleaner and the new outside ski will get in the inside edge automatically
Lightening the inside ski is just the beginning of a chain of events to direct pressure to the outside ski, more specifically the inside edge of the outside ski. One needs to understand that these chains of events begin under Gravity (hence the term "Weight") and finish under Centripetal force.I'm not a fan of that video. The script implies that lightening the inside ski is all it takes.
After all, the title is "How to transfer weight" not "You should transfer weight".
Most wc skiers lift the tip of the ski in transitions.@JESinstr, @mdf's post does not conflict in any way with what Paul Lorenz is promoting in that video you just posted. He is demonstrating how softening or flexing the new inside leg will create weight transfer to the new outside ski and start the new turn. In other words, doing something with the new inside ski does make the outside ski do the right thing.
Paul begins by making turns with moderate edging, and points out that if the timing of the lightening of the inside ski is off there will be unwanted skidding. He says nothing about any resulting tip divergence. He describes how to get the timing right so that the resulting turns will travel in the direction the skis are pointed.
When he begins to show high performance carving, Paul's first turns exhibit a new inside ski tail lift.
View attachment 178866
He talks about adjusting the timing to avoid the tail lift. But he doesn't say why. Then he goes on to demonstrate more carved turns which, with or without tail lift, are all advanced turns. There is no skidding or divergence in the ones in any of these turns.
And if you look closely to those turns at the very end of the video, you'll see at least one turn where both skis leave the snow, and at least one other where the new inside ski's tip lifts.
View attachment 178864
View attachment 178865
None of the variations in what leaves the snow at weight transfer diminishes the functional quality of these high performance turns. Being able to match any of these turns, even with their bits of ski lift, is an admirable accomplishment.
And they all begin with softening/flexing the new inside leg.
I like the skiing. It's just the description I don't like. I can't see how it would help someone who can't already do the movement.LF, This sidebar started with
My comments have been within the context of responding to the above post. I apologize for any confusion
Lightening the inside ski is just the beginning of a chain of events to direct pressure to the outside ski, more specifically the inside edge of the outside ski. One needs to understand that these chains of events begin under Gravity (hence the term "Weight") and finish under Centripetal force.
If you don't subscribe to PSIA fundamentals, that's ok. There are many ways to make it down the mountain.
I was about to post much the same. We are on page 6 so drift is expected if not required, but the original post was more about how to tip than any sequence of tipping. The talk of lightening and lifting skis made me think about how the movements related to skiing on one ski relate to manipulating the foot inside the boot. I’d bet that skiers who are adept at one-footed skiing are in the invert/evert the foot group.This little difference of opinion is off-topic, of course. We are talking about tipping the inside ski without distinguising whether or not anything happens first inside either boot, vs the whole assemblege (foot+lower leg+boot+ski) tipping together.
I'm not sure what my opinion is on the orignial question. I'd have to ski while paying attention to that detail to find out.
Maybe that's why we see so many instances of tip diversion in advanced skiers. Are you advocating Tip diversion?