Tips / Drills / Advice for keeping weight forward...

[RelaxedNinja]

...in the front of my boots? This is what I've heard or read quite often: that I need to press forward into the front of my boots so I can maintain control of the skis.

As a beginner, I have to remind myself of this often because I forget, or more likely sit back in apprehension when I'm not comfortable or confident.

Is it true that I should be doing this 100% of the time? When turning and shifting weight, it's especially difficult to maintain this forward lean into my boots.

Am I misunderstanding the application of this advice? Is it just repetition over time which solves it?

Thanks.

 

[scott43]

The "oh shit" handles are out front. When you're in trouble, reaching forward for the handles is the move you want. Beginners lock-up and sit back when they get in trouble and that leads to loss of control. Don't push your heels out, lean into the shins and use the front of the skis to pivot around. There are great instructors on here that can provide more accurate details than I can. But yes, sitting back means losing control, exactly the opposite of what you want. Complete turns across the fall line mean control. Don't lock-up and straight line. Make complete turns.

 

[dbostedo]

Is it true that I should be doing this 100% of the time?

No, you shouldn't be forcefully pressing into the boot tongues 100% of the time. But you should be in balance and able to press forward when you need to. A good way to think of it is to try to have your shins touching the boot tongues much of the time. But that's not perfect either, and tongue pressure comes and goes throughout turns. But if you aren't in balance and are sitting back you'll find it hard to be able to have shin/tongue contact as you turn.

Now the question would be how to get contact with the front of the boot. What you don't want to is crouch or bend at the waist or try to push the boots. Instead you want a balanced, athletic stance. And what you do want to do to move that balanced stance forward is ski with your ankles more "closed". Meaning you are using the lower leg/shin muscles to move your knees (and whole body really) more over your toes. Some people accomplish this by thinking about pulling their feet back (especially the inside foot in a turn). Others accomplish it by thinking about lifting their toes. Others by just flexing/feeling tension in the top of their ankle.

You may want to look at some instruction videos online about getting forward, or out of the "backseat". Or better yet, take some lessons!

 

[scott43]

You may want to look at some instruction videos online about getting forward, or out of the "backseat". Or better yet, take some lessons!

I've said that before..ski lessons can make a HUGE difference. Other sports I don't necessarily believe in them but a good ski instructor can make a big difference in a short time.

 

[raytseng]

Without seeing you ski or a coach seeing you ski, it is hard to tell if or if you have other stance/alignment issues that are making it impossible for you to "get forward" by only focusing on "getting forward".

I would say though, perhaps the hands and poles are probably a key factor that I see a lot of beginners messing up; combined or causing them to also hunch over instead of "skiing tall" that blocks them from the next level.

If those drop your hands to your waist or behind or if you're dragging your poles when you're in survival mode; it is going to be pretty impossible for you to "get forward".

Conversely, if you consciously do and practice the drill you already probably seen on the mtn: where the coaches make students do hold your poles up and out as a bar, or up and vertical as the TV viewing screen; or even just jump with hands up every so often that can help correct your your body alignment and be the prerequisite to unlock the "staying forward".

Anyway, my point is sometimes the drill you need (e.g. what to do with your hands) will seem totally unrelated to what you're trying to accomplish ("getting forward" in the boot); and I would agree sometimes only a live coach that can see how you are skiing are doing can help you make those leaps.

 

[Noodler]

@RelaxedNinja - this is one of those "fun" topics that always seems to stir up the bees nest around here. You'll get lots of varied advice on what to do and not to do. But let's start here...

Skiing is a sport of balance; both laterally (side-to-side) and fore/aft (front-to-back). You have specifically asked about how to be "forward" (fore/aft balance management). So first you'll need to understand what it means to be forward on skis that are on snow (because it's not the same as our normal dry land world).

Being considered to be forward on skis means that your CoM (Center of Mass) sits forward of your BoS (Base of Support). In layman terms, consider this to mean that basically your hips need to be ahead of your heels. With a skier viewed from the side, a perpendicular line drawn from the hips down to the snow will intersect the skis at a point somewhere in front of the heels of your feet. If your hips drop back behind your heels while the skis are pressured on the snow, you are considered to be "in the backseat" (weight is back).

So hopefully you now have an idea of what it actually means to be forward. Note that I said nothing about shin pressure into your boot cuffs, your arm/hand position, or anything else because those things are not actually reliable indicators of your fore/aft stance position.

Fore/aft stance management is actually a more complex topic on its own. As you get lots of advice on how to "get forward" consider all of it from the perspective of what will that advice actually do to change the position of the hips in relation to your heels? If you don't see a "connection" in how a movement will actually change those relative positions, then it probably isn't going to be all that effective as a fore/aft stance management method.

 

[Fuller]

The next time you dive into a swimming pool try this; put your toes on the edge of the pool and stand tall, but with a little flex in your joints. Rock forward slowly, bending mostly at the ankles and play with that moment when you're actually too far over to stop. Think about that brief moment in time; you're falling but you're OK with it because you know what's coming next. Chances are you know that feeling already so you will recognize it when you work it into your skiing.

The similarities with skiing end right there for obvious reasons but that feeling of committing to the fall line and being able to control and redirect your path is essential. Now to be sure that moment I described is not all the time but "being forward" means that you can put yourself in that position whenever you need to. Things get quite difficult as the slope increases, the visibility gets worse, your speed goes up and the snow surface gets unpredictable. Your brain will tell you that you're falling down the mountain but your feet know better and come to the rescue every time.

 

[LiquidFeet]

The next time you dive into a swimming pool try this; put your toes on the edge of the pool and stand tall, but with a little flex in your joints. Rock forward slowly, bending mostly at the ankles and play with that moment when you're actually too far over to stop. Think about that brief moment in time; you're falling but you're OK with it because you know what's coming next. Chances are you know that feeling already so you will recognize it when you work it into your skiing.....

This is an excellent description of what it feels like when you are maintaining a functional stance while skiing. You'll find this a "scary" feeling at first before your mind and body get used to it. Working to maintain this stance will give you more control over the front of the ski. You'll come to realize that this feeling gives you more control of the whole ski, and thus makes you more capable of putting to work what instructors tell you to do. You'll be able to get your skis take you where you want to go with precision. You paid a lot for the front half of your skis. Standing on them so that enough of your weight is hovering over the front means you will get your money's worth of performance out of those skis.

It takes a while, and deliberate practice, to convince your body and mind that this stance won't make you fall on your face. "Closing the ankles" and keeping them closed as you ski is the first step. This produces contact between the shin and tongue of the boot. Many skiers say to themselves "shin-tongue" to remind themselves to close those ankles as they are learning to do this. It's hard to remember at first, because there are so many things to pay conscious attention to as you learn to ski. But this "forward" stance thing should be at the top of your list. Pulling the feet backwards under the body helps with closing the ankles. Lifting the forefoot upward helps too, and keeps the heel seated properly on the boot footbed. Keeping your hands forward as if holding a cafeteria tray helps.

Staying on low pitch terrain as you work to embed this ankles-closed thing is very important, because if the terrain terrifies you, your brain and body won't let you close the ankles. Don't let friends take you to steep terrain before you are ready; you'll embed bad habits based on a back-seat stance and they will be the devil to get rid of later. If you feel fear, go back down to non-threatening terrain and work on making nice round, big, medium, and small turns with those ankles closed.

Adjustments of how much of your body weight is hovering over the front of the skis can be made by flexing and extending at the knees and hips, without opening and closing the ankles. This too takes deliberate practice to learn to do. As you build your skills, you'll find by experimenting that in some snow conditions and on some terrain you'll want more weight over the front of the skis than at other times. But you won't want to open those ankles.

*Not all skiers believe this about keeping the ankles closed - there will be disagreement if this thread continues to generate posts.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Once in a while, try skiing in an overly compact and crouched stance. An instructor had me do this two years ago. Last week I was just goofing around and finally realized why he had me do it. I have been playing around a lot with different turn shapes, turning uphill, perfect tracks, all kinds of stuff. I think it is helping.

 

[Crank]

Here is a non technical, non lesson taking skier's take. Just add it to all the other advice and use what works for you.

Getting your weight on the shovels of your skis is the goal. More specifically the inside edge of your downhill ski. How you do that is up to you, but, you can't do it if your weight is not forward. The steeper it gets the more that is true.

Think of pressuring the front of your boots as a way to make that happen.

 

[pushgears]

An easy way to find your sweet spot is to take a few runs without poles. Your hands will find a dynamic position like a surfer’s.

The contact of your shins to the boot tongues should be a result of being in the right stance as opposed to “leaning” forward.

As dbostedo said, try pulling your feet back, but do so by engaging your core muscles-kind of like “holding it in” -and the shins will naturally shift forward.

 

[Rod9301]

An easy way to find your sweet spot is to take a few runs without poles. Your hands will find a dynamic position like a surfer’s.

The contact of your shins to the boot tongues should be a result of being in the right stance as opposed to “leaning” forward.

As dbostedo said, try pulling your feet back, but do so by engaging your core muscles-kind of like “holding it in” -and the shins will naturally shift forward.

You actually use the hamstrings to pull the feet back

 

[Henry]

1--Reread Noodler's post.
2--Our body center of mass is somewhere in our trunk. Some people will have it high or lower, more toward the front or the back. In any case, the vertical relationship of our center of mass to the sweet spot on the skis is what matters.
3--The sweet spot on the skis ought'a be marked. It is an area somewhere around the toe bindings or a bit forward of them. Easy-to-ski skis have a bigger sweet spot (less precision is needed to hit it) but lower performance. Highest performance skis (race) have a very small sweet spot and need the skier correctly balanced right there. We need the sweet spot of the skis under our center of mass.
4--I like to stand on the balls of my feet. That helps my skis perform better. Stand tall on the balls of your feet with loose joints. Ever had a sports coach yell, "Get off your heels!"? Ever heard one tell anyone (except a clog dancer) to get back on their heels? Off the heels works for skiing.
5--I use the pressure of my shins against the boot tongues as my gauge of how far I have the skis back under my center of mass. I want the skis farther back when I start a turn, even farther back for a tight turn, even farther back for turns on very steep slopes. I relax the pressure toward the end of the turn, still lightly on the balls of my feet.
6--You want to be back on you heels (a) in very sticky wet spring snow--the glue zone, (b) the moment before your ski tips go up a rise, then immediately pull your feet back and recenter.
7--The hands & arms should be in the natural balancing position a bit up & a bit forward, just where they'd automatically go when you're walking across the slickest icy parking lot.

 

[RelaxedNinja]

Thanks again for all the quick replies. I'll check out some videos and practice that exercise.

By the way, is it bad or unnecessary to press my foot down into the boot in order to exert more control over the ski? This is another reflex that I find myself defaulting to at times.

 

[scott43]

Thanks again for all the quick replies. I'll check out some videos and practice that exercise.

By the way, is it bad or unnecessary to press my foot down into the boot in order to exert more control over the ski? This is another reflex that I find myself defaulting to at times.

I'm a bit more expert at skating than skiing. So I'll draw from that. Beginners tense up and use more muscle than necessary because they're fearful. You don't NEED to do these things when you are in balance and able to pressure the edges appropriately. But when you get fearful, again, lock-up. So you probably don't NEED to do that..but it's a reflex like you say. Again, we have great instructors on this board so I'll defer to them. But try these things on greens. I'm currently trying to teach my kid and I find practicing all the precision movements on greens is great for my skiing.

 

[dbostedo]

is it bad or unnecessary to press my foot down into the boot in order to exert more control

Depends on what you mean by "push down"... if you mean you're trying to stand in the balls of your feet, which can attempt to lift your heel, that's bad. If you feel like you're opening your ankle, like you're trying to point your toes or press a gas pedal, that's bad. If you're curling your toes, that's probably bad.

You should feel that you're balanced with your foot flat and your weight all stacked and transmitted through the arch of your foot. If you're balanced that way you can be "forward" and get cuff contact as needed.

 

[Fuller]

Thanks again for all the quick replies. I'll check out some videos and practice that exercise.

By the way, is it bad or unnecessary to press my foot down into the boot in order to exert more control over the ski? This is another reflex that I find myself defaulting to at times.

It can work in some circumstances but I would not use that as a default "feeling" that animates your turns. @Noodler pretty much nailed the technical aspects of what constitutes good skiing: generally your COM needs to proceed your BOS down the hill. You allow yourself to fall forward and the inside front edge of your outside ski catches and redirects that force across the hill. At that moment in the turn, you need to allow the force to build on that inside edge. For me it's better to think about projecting my new outside hip up and forward and bringing both heels back and underneath my center of mass. Yes, I feel pressure on the boot cuff and I'm biased towards the ball of my foot but it's never my goal to "stomp the gas pedal".

It's hard to have a conversation about "forward" without discussing a number of other things going on at the same time: terrain changes, unweighting the new inside ski, balancing on the new outside ski, turn shape and how it's momentum helps you stay forward, separation of upper and lower body. It all happens at the same time and each aspect affects the others. The right instructor can teach you the individual pieces, will keep you from drilling them incorrectly (a mortal sin) and help you combine it all into a fluid turn shape.

As an adult learner I can tell you that most days I have to start my day with a good positive mental attitude and really exaggerate that feeling of falling forward from the very first turn I make. I ski from an upper parking lot down to the lift every day and by the time my 2 minute run is done, I know if it's going to be a good day or whether I'll be fighting to get out of the back seat all day.

 

[mister moose]

Here's my take.

It's not about being forward (most of the time) It's about being over your feet, and generally that's in between your heel and the ball of your foot. There's a range to be used. Skiing isn't about being static.

Being flexed and over your feet by design requires contact with the tongue of the boot. This has a range too, no pressure to more pressure. Shin pressure does not necessarily mean you are forward. In simplistic terms, your hip or pelvis position along the ski determines how far forward you are, but ultimately it is how your entire body is stacked plus any dynamic forces acting upon you. It's far easier to feel it than analyze it. Trust me on that one.

A good place to start is to build awareness of where your center of fore-aft pressure is: If you were on a balance beam (cross-wise), where would you balance in your stance at that moment? Or in other terms, where along your foot does it feel your downward weight is focused? Learn to feel the distribution of pressure on your footbed, and learn to feel this while you are skiing. There are few more important skills in being a good skier.

Once you feel it you can direct it. Start by driving the skis in the second half of the turn, applying a little more shin pressure once you are in the fall line. Release the pressure as you finish the turn and start flattening the skis as you move towards tipping onto the new edges.

As a beginner, I have to remind myself of this often because I forget, or more likely sit back in apprehension when I'm not comfortable or confident.

Very common. So practice on slopes you have confidence. Let your faster friends ski elsewhere and meet them at the bar later. You aren't doing yourself any favors by being over terrained and skiing in a defensive posture. Attack the mountain.

 

[RelaxedNinja]

A lot to take in. I just bought some gear...boots/skis/poles. I'd like to find some private instruction off the mountain and maybe pay for the whole day if I can get someone for $300-400. Thoughts?

 

[dbostedo]

I'd like to find some private instruction off the mountain

You mean outside of the mountain's own instructors? If so, that's pretty universally illegal, and can get you and the instructor banned. Most resorts have a monopoly on instruction at their resort, except for special arrangements like camps and race training.