I actually want to do that a little here and there also, just for the exercise and getting better at moving around the bottom of the mountain. I find Killington can be a chore sometimes when getting from one bottom lift to another.
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Tips for helping teens start out
- Thread starter GA49
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I didn’t learn to ski until I was nearly 30. I had some of the same issues as your daughter, and I had been an athlete as well. However, when I spent a lot of time on XC skis (mostly on skate skis) that helped my alpine skiing by leaps and bounds. Because I fell on XC skis several times, I got over the fear of falling on alpine equipment. Learning to glide on nearly flat terrain with 2 skis on my feet got me over those awkward feelings and things started to feel more natural. Learning to skate on skinny skate skis made skating on alpine equipment feel stupid easy.
I did use skiboards on alpine slopes, and that helped my progression a TON. Movements on those things felt more intuitive than on longer boards, but did transfer easily to longer boards. They were great confidence boosters. I do have a pair here at home; PM me if you’re interested.
Ski Sundown is a great little place! My brother lives close by and I still like to go there when I’m visiting in winter. If you live in that area, there are also a bunch of places you can go XC skiing.
A warning about hockey stops: I learned to do those early on. They were fun and I felt SO cool doing them, LOL. HOWEVER…..my early year parallel turns incorporated them, and I was Z-turning everything to control speed. NOT good! The only way I learned to break that horrible habit was spending a season on skiboards. (Yes, I had a few instructors try to break me of that habit but it was the skiboards that helped me most). This may be why instructors teach wedge stops instead of hockey stops. Skiboards also encourage the rider to stay on easier terrain at first, because IMO they make that terrain more fun. Whiteface used to use skiboards (ski blades) in their instructional progression.
In the off season see if she would try roller skating especially on traditional four wheel skates and not roller blades. The way the front wheels of traditional skates work I feel it is similar to edging on skis. Others may think differently but when I was trying to get away from the wedge type turn I found that to be similar. BTW I have seen skaters use ski poles like a XC skier.
If she has the time (and inclination) outside of the lessons you have already planned for her, other places to look for peers to ski with are local recreation dept. winter programs, high school ski club, and even some YMCAs have ski clubs and outings for kids/ teens. On the off chance you home school, many hills have special programs for home schoolers.
Yes! Side slipping also teaches her that she can safely get down anything with a confident side slip. Look for a short slope of suitable pitch where she'll keep going but not go too fast. Short so it doesn't look endless and hopeless. When she gets slipping on both sides, introduce just a bit of weight forward to get them to turn just a bit, then a bit of weight back to get them to turn the other way, then centered again. Be sure she keeps most of her weight on the downhill ski and never leans toward the hill nor sits back on her heels. If anyone says to keep the weight equal on both skis, yes, but...trying for equal weight usually ends up with too much weight on the uphill ski. Trying for more weight on the downhill ski isn't wrong and often ends up with about equal weight. A hockey stop is really just a side slip with a bit of edging at the end. Well, it's more than that, but this is a start.
A great coach I had once wrote that the two halves of the skis serve different purposes. The front half is for turning and controlling. The back half is for running straight and fast. Stay over the front of the skis. Get her to understand that the curve of the front half of the ski is her best friend. Put it to use. I used to tell 2nd lesson students to turn outward and forward so their zipper pull was over the logo of the outside ski. (I can't get that far, but that's the direction to go.) When they got good at this they found that the skis turned themselves, or they could add a bit of steering to turn more sharply. This is all about using the curve of the front of the outside ski to do the work for you.
You've gotten a lot of good advice here. The only area I'll interject is that "hockey stop" is not necessarily a method of stopping that I recommend for any beginner and in fact, I feel like hockey stop can imply stopping while out of control. (but that could just be me) @jimmy and I had a conversation about this not so long ago.
The best advice here is to build confidence on mellow terrain. Going to terrain that is a little too steep can and will set her back in her confidence building.
You're on the right track here.
Kudos!
^^This.
The best way to teach beginners to stop is to have them turn all the way across the slope with the intention to make a U-turn. The skis will refuse to go uphill and will coast to a stop facing the trees.
On the beginner slope, work with her on making successful turn-stops in both directions. Turn and stop left. Turn and stop right. Repeat, repeat, repeat. She can be in a wedge while learning this. The wedge will be important for her since she's fearful - it will give her confidence that she has some measure of speed control, at least as long as she's skiing on beginner terrain.
Once she can turn-stop on beginner terrain, work on shortening the across-the-slope distance these turn-stops require. Once she can make turn-stops without taking up much of the trail's width, have her link these turns, attempting to almost coast to a stop with each turn. Her turn-stops will morph into completed turns.
On beginner terrain still, she will be making short radius turns in no time, in a wedge, going stupid-slow down the hill, and she will be able to stop on a dime at any point with a turn instead of a braking wedge. She needs to learn that completing her turns slows her down and stop her if she chooses. This is a major realization all new skiers need.
After she's good with linked short turns (in a wedge), have her work on moving the inside ski over to match the outside ski half-way through each turn. This may take some time. Stay on beginner terrain for this. Then work with her to move that new inside ski (it's the downhill ski at this point) over to match the new outside ski before the skis point down the fall line. This is a very big step, and takes time and persistence to learn. It's learned best on beginner terrain.
Once she can reliably slide that inside ski over to match the outside ski - above the fall line - she will be ready to go up the hill onto green terrain where that wedge won't do much for speed control. Stay off blue terrain.
On green trails, go back to having her doing turn-stops in both directions. She will probably take up a lot of real estate with these first turn-stops and be concerned about the speed she gathered before stopping. This is normal. Have her shorten the distance she uses to coast to a stop. Next is linked turns.... slowly bring her through the same progression you used down on the beginner terrain until she's aware that the shorter these completed turns are, the less speed she gains. She needs to know this to have the confidence to continue skiing and building her skills.
Teaching a beginner or novice to do hockey-stops is difficult in the first place (the reasons are listed upthread). If taught to her early, the braking hockey stop technique will get embedded in all her turns. Braking in each turn will replace using turn shape for speed control. And the conceptual approach of braking will inhibit her ability to advance as a skier. Teach hockey stops to her later, and emphasize they are for emergency use only.
Some people learn faster than others and don't require such a slow progression. Do not rush her. Everyone learns at their own rate.
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Hockey stop is not out of control if you are doing it right. It is the most effective way to stop or dump speed. If you plan ahead and ski cautiously you may never need to stop NOW!
It sure has come in handy for me in my younger days.
It sure has come in handy for me in my younger days.
I guess we'll have to disagree on this.
And in fact, if you have to dump speed, that implies that you're skiing out of control.
No. It implies someone jumped onto the run in front of you from out of the trees, but it's not a problem because you can stop in a shorter distance. Or you can decide to keep skiing at speed or ditch a ton of it when you have a clear view of the empty run, or the not so empty run.
Of course if you only ski at ski instructor speeds, you never need that ability.
Of course if you only ski at ski instructor speeds, you never need that ability.
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Lol. Forget the hockey stop for now.
(Clueless males, usually young, sometimes employ it in early skiing by jumping. They’re often a danger to others because they have no control)
“Fear of falling” - for a gymnast who does balance beam? That’s a big sign of over terraining. Too steep.
Hockey stop is the wrong way to go at this stage. It’ll only increase the fear of falling as they’re likely to catch an edge and face plant or fall backwards. It’s more of a sudden event - like falling off a balance beam I suppose.
As has been mentioned, turn uphill to stop. This is fundamental to skiing. Use the line you follow to control speed. Across or uphill slows you down. Like winding mountain roads.
(Clueless males, usually young, sometimes employ it in early skiing by jumping. They’re often a danger to others because they have no control)
“Fear of falling” - for a gymnast who does balance beam? That’s a big sign of over terraining. Too steep.
Hockey stop is the wrong way to go at this stage. It’ll only increase the fear of falling as they’re likely to catch an edge and face plant or fall backwards. It’s more of a sudden event - like falling off a balance beam I suppose.
As has been mentioned, turn uphill to stop. This is fundamental to skiing. Use the line you follow to control speed. Across or uphill slows you down. Like winding mountain roads.
A full-on hockey stop involves fully pivoting the skis while not changing direction, or in other words a full braking maneuver. While this is a great test of the ability to achieve upper-lower body separation, and thus something that an advancing skier should learn to do, I agree with the comments that it's quite difficult for a novice, and really too much of a skill leap at that stage.
The more achievable skill for a skier new to parallel turns--and for that matter the skill that advanced skiers use more frequently for speed control and collision avoidance--is the brushed turn (or skidded turn, if you prefer). The object is to able not only to do brushed turns, but to be able to vary the amount of "brushing" at will, and smoothly, without kinks or zig-zags.
There's a deficiency I often see in skiers who are learning to make parallel turns--and it crops up whether the skier is learning by a direct-to-parallel pathway, or by way of making wedge christies. The deficiency is that whenever these skiers are finishing a turn with fully parallel skis, they can't get OUT of the carve--they're edge-locked, unable to brush the skis. As others have mentioned, it's a result of lack of skill in adjusting fore-aft balance through the turn. A good carved turn requires moving forward on the skis early in the turn, but then settling toward the back in the latter phases. On the other hand, making a brushed turn requires staying a little more forward on the skis in the shaping phase. I believe it's very important for a developing skier to work on refining fore-aft balance, and on achieving an understanding of the adjustments needed to create turns across the whole spectrum, from purely carved to fully brushed. Experiment with it. Don't be stiff, be playful. It's counterintuitive, because tightening a brushed turn to move away from an obstacle requires initially allowing one's body mass closer to the obstacle. Sitting back is just the wrong thing to do, it will make the skis rail in.
Get good at brushed turns, and the hockey stops will come naturally, but rarely be necessary.
Boots that fit, true beginner terrain, and a short and soft ski that is tuned enough to grip the snow will help a lot in that they will be both easy to work with and fun to ski on that beginner terrain.
For places to ski, find a place with terrain based learning. For the gymnast perhaps a baby terrain park may help engage the fun centers of the brain.
Don't focus on technique, focus on fun.
For places to ski, find a place with terrain based learning. For the gymnast perhaps a baby terrain park may help engage the fun centers of the brain.
Don't focus on technique, focus on fun.
Eh, ideally, yes. I can’t speak for op’s daughter, but know that you have to meet your child where they are at. My youngest had some issues with anxiety and at that age preferred to ski with me. Would they have ditched me had they had friends they were comfortable skiing with? Maybe. But at times even older kids choose/ need a little extra parental support.
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Some teenagers are blessed with parents who are more fun than their friends. Another thought...
All I'm saying is focus on the fun, not the instruction, especially from a parent. Confidence comes from reps, not critique.
On a side note, a hockey stop isn't a cure-all, as a youngling I had a great hockey-stop, or so I thought, up till the time I came ripping down, pulled a hockey stop on a sheet of ice at the base, fell and went clattering over the ice ledge onto the concrete in front of the lodge at Shawnee mtn.
On a side note, a hockey stop isn't a cure-all, as a youngling I had a great hockey-stop, or so I thought, up till the time I came ripping down, pulled a hockey stop on a sheet of ice at the base, fell and went clattering over the ice ledge onto the concrete in front of the lodge at Shawnee mtn.
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A little off topic: When I used to teach Abbey, when she was 17, I had a tendency to yell commands at her. I yelled Abigail stop and she yelled Buzzigail, you stop. My nicckname is Buzz.
She wanted to ski with other kids (I wonder why). She came home from school and told me she was going skiing with two boys. I said great. She went and came home and I asked her how it went. She said it was unusual. They were snow boarders. They didn't buy a ticket, they jumped off the lift and they smoked while coming down the hill. Then she said that "we" are going again next week. Ahh to be young.
My thoughts on lessons, the ideal is a group lesson. If one skier performs the skill, it means that everyone might be able to do it. Maybe not the first lesson but group lessons work.
And GreenAthlete, keep an eye on who your daughter runs off with to go skiing!
She wanted to ski with other kids (I wonder why). She came home from school and told me she was going skiing with two boys. I said great. She went and came home and I asked her how it went. She said it was unusual. They were snow boarders. They didn't buy a ticket, they jumped off the lift and they smoked while coming down the hill. Then she said that "we" are going again next week. Ahh to be young.
My thoughts on lessons, the ideal is a group lesson. If one skier performs the skill, it means that everyone might be able to do it. Maybe not the first lesson but group lessons work.
And GreenAthlete, keep an eye on who your daughter runs off with to go skiing!