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On steep faster terrain I'll...

  • Curl and Clench my Toes

  • Relax and Hang Ten Man


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Dean

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In ny case toe clenching was mostly a manifestation of anxiety.
hadn't thought of it that way - it does seem like it's a "hanging on" reflex.
Don't judge my prehensile toes.
 

Fuller

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hadn't thought of it that way - it does seem like it's a "hanging on" reflex.
Don't judge my prehensile toes.
We don't judge here - we only deliberate the issues! But yeah, toe curling, to me, is like crossing your ankles while in the dentist's chair. I'm not fond of my dentist so I do it every time and have to uncross and relax.
 

Bad Bob

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Toe curling is often a response fear or tension. Way long ago was in a clinic where the presenter (it might have been Weems) got off on this topic, it got stuck up in the cobwebs of my brain. Some of the other associated signals are, poles pointed forward, cold fingers, looking down at the ski tips.
Distract yourself, we are all simple creatures way down deep. Whistle or hum, concentrate on dragging the tips of your poles; anything to loosen up and not think about what is scaring you at the core.
Time to go ski. Good bye.
 

cantunamunch

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I can't think of any activity where toe curling is positive. Where do you think it is? We tend to do it in flip flops and I think that leads to all sorts of problems.

There's a thing that happens in flip-flops, even with "athletic" people. Instead of flexing the ankle forward as they stride, they rotate the heel outwards. Like a flip-flop charleston.

Yes, it makes me laugh, sorry. Especially when 'fit' Instagram models posture and pout and slide their heels right off their footwear. I'm a bad, bad, bad, judgey person with a super-ticklish funny bone.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Finally got out for a couple days this season and noticed I was doing this sometimes, which didn't seem like a good idea.
I think it mostly happened on scrapey hard pack going faster trying to hold the bottom of my turn.
My first thought was I'm probably not keeping enough pressure on my cuff.
When I had my boots fitted, I asked to leave some toe room (they used a top cap) - I have a mortons neuroma that the cold seems to aggravate. I also don't tend to tighten front buckles down too tight.
So something (else) for me to pay attention to. Any other musings out there?

PS - I should clarify that by curling/clenching I mean pressing down with the toes not up.
First thing to check is boot size, per this post two above yours. It's not about the room in the toe box; it's about trying to stabilize the important parts of your foot in the boot. In my case, for example, that's often in the area of the lower cuff buckle where I have extremely low volume.

If that's not it, it's lesson time!
comfort first, control second usually means the boots will be too big (as said before) and clenched toes.

This issue has lead most folks to buy boots that are often 2 sizes larger than they need to have control, they then spend the majority of the day
trying to make up for this lack of control (LOTS OF EXTRA WORK). and usually leads to back seat skiing, (NO FUN).

OP should see a good "boot fitter" to solve this issue because a boot to big will allow the liner to move fore/aft inside the shell on every turn, which sucks away from that nice word "Control".

Mike
Master Bootfitter/Cped.
 

Dean

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On boot size/fit...

It seems to me that you can try and clench your toes no matter the fit -- your range of motion maybe be significantly reduced by a tight fit. If the tendency to clench is more mental, then boot fit alone won't solve the problem.

So I guess the tangent question is: what's a properly fitted (and buckled) boot supposed to feel like (at rest and under the forces of motion)? Probably other threads on this already...

I believe my boots are well fitted, but not necessarily for maxed out performance. And I tend to focus more on buckle/strap on the cuff keeping my heel in place, not really the mid/fore foot. I have played a little with loose buckling (strap, moderate on cuff, loose over foot) on easy groomed terrain to get a better feel for balance etc. I don't normally ski with that much slop in the fit.
 

mdf

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It seems to me that you can try and clench your toes no matter the fit -- your range of motion maybe be significantly reduced by a tight fit. If the tendency to clench is more mental, then boot fit alone won't solve the problem.
That sounds correct to me. I don't think anyone is curling their toes to fill volume.
 

Ogg

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On boot size/fit...

It seems to me that you can try and clench your toes no matter the fit -- your range of motion maybe be significantly reduced by a tight fit. If the tendency to clench is more mental, then boot fit alone won't solve the problem.

So I guess the tangent question is: what's a properly fitted (and buckled) boot supposed to feel like (at rest and under the forces of motion)? Probably other threads on this already...

I believe my boots are well fitted, but not necessarily for maxed out performance. And I tend to focus more on buckle/strap on the cuff keeping my heel in place, not really the mid/fore foot. I have played a little with loose buckling (strap, moderate on cuff, loose over foot) on easy groomed terrain to get a better feel for balance etc. I don't normally ski with that much slop in the fit.
I think the point is your foot may be moving around in the boot more than you realize so you're clenching your toes to try to stop it.
 

Tony S

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That sounds correct to me. I don't think anyone is curling their toes to fill volume.
Sure they are. It's part of tensing up your whole foot to try to get it to press meaninfully up against the shell. Imagine your hand in a Bordeaux glass while you're doing the dishes. You relax your hand, it goes and out easily, and moves around all you want inside with the sponge. Now put your hand inside and make a fist. Don't break the glass!
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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That sounds correct to me. I don't think anyone is curling their toes to fill volume.

Sure they are. It's part of tensing up your whole foot to try to get it to press meaninfully up against the shell. Imagine your hand in a Bordeaux glass while you're doing the dishes. You relax your hand, it goes and out easily, and moves around all you want inside with the sponge. Now put your hand inside and make a fist. Don't break the glass!

Oh wait. I just remembered something.
.
.
.
.
.
1642455241486.png
 

Bad Bob

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Went out today and played with lifting the toes today. That was weird.

What I found:
pretty effective for doing a wedge turn.
Tough on the calf muscles.
Caused you to close the ankle joint a little.
Not something to teach anybody on purpose.
 

Fuller

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Went out today and played with lifting the toes today. That was weird.

What I found:
pretty effective for doing a wedge turn.
Tough on the calf muscles.
Caused you to close the ankle joint a little.
Not something to teach anybody on purpose.
I find toe lifting really effective when you combine it with lifting the pelvis up and forward as well as getting rid of any bend at the waist issues. So many of these helpful hints that fall flat for some, absolutely depend on having the correct posture and the skier's COM slightly in front of the BOS. Is it a cause or an effect? I really don't know. I'm guessing that lifting the foot/toes represents the last 2% of "getting forward" but that 2% is where the fine adjustment motor skills live. Also where flow, style and speed come together.

Up until recently I've been living in that grey area where I'm too bent at the waist, a bit too much flex in the knees and not enough mobility in the femur joint. That's good enough for groomer zooming but not off piste skiing. I'm not quite ready to brag about an "ah ha" moment but the signs are encouraging.
 

mdf

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The Salomon SX sizes are their own circumference-based scheme.
My size 345 boots have a 321 mm BSL.
They are equivalent a 27 or 28 traditional boot which would typically have BSL in that same neighborhood.
 

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