Tom Gellie's Webinars are Well Worth It IMO

[Tim Hodgson]

geepers don't you find it is similar to the rollerblading move off the front wheel with heel up (which is usually followed by a cross-over, which we can't do with skis)?

 

[geepers]

geepers don't you find it is similar to the rollerblading move off the front wheel with heel up (which is usually followed by a cross-over, which we can't do with skis)?

Never rollerbladed so no idea.

 

[Steve]

Which video has this "torque" idea explained?

Mike posted it. Great stuff. Really interested in your thoughts on it.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Steve, you didn't ask for my comments, but here goes:

Holy crap! "It may look like we are turning our feet under our body, but in reality we are anchoring the tips and drifting the tails to shorten the turn radius."

"Lower/upper body separation is a result, not the action." "You need to know what the skis need to do first." "When you make the skis do what they need to do, your body will follow with the correct position."

I think this is classic "short swing" turn, isn't it? It is certainly biomechanically stronger than trying to "steer the skis" under a quiet upper body.

Thank you for directing my attention to that Webinar series!

 

[Steve]

@Tim Hodgson of course I'm interested in your comments!

Yes it really is a mind blowing concept and it works.

Today on the WROD if there was someone that I needed to slow down to stay behind instead of my old go to movements of turning my legs, kind of hockey-slow -- I just moved forward on the skis, they whipped around. I almost hit a bare spot at one point with a rock exposed. Move that pivot point forward, skis turned.

 

[Steve]

I remember years ago a discussion on PugSki about whether you can cause your skis to turn by pressuring the tips, and my recollection is that some very high level skiers and coaches here said that you couldn't. It didn't make the skis arc. Well yes it doesn't, but moving the fulcrum ahead does make the tails skid out. Simple moment arm mechanics. Gellie has presented something completely new as far as I know, and very useful.

@HardDaysNight when you bolded the torque part, were you thinking about that kind of torque, or the torque that a wound up CA and CB'd body creates?

 

[HardDaysNight]

The torque produced by moving the pressure fore and aft along the length of the ski. The effect makes use of the self-steering capability of modern skis. Allow the turning of the skis to turn your legs for you rather than twisting your legs to turn the skis. This is the way “brushed carves” are produced as described by HH among many other good coaches. I use a drill known as the “falling down the hill drill” to give racers the sensation of being forward enough to produce this result.

 

[Noodler]

@Tim Hodgson of course I'm interested in your comments!

Yes it really is a mind blowing concept and it works.

Today on the WROD if there was someone that I needed to slow down to stay behind instead of my old go to movements of turning my legs, kind of hockey-slow -- I just moved forward on the skis, they whipped around. I almost hit a bare spot at one point with a rock exposed. Move that pivot point forward, skis turned.

Just some food for thought...

Consider for a moment that skiers can "get away with murder" on a hard-pack slope when it comes to skiing technique. When you're skiing in 2D conditions, all kinds of methods of turning a ski may work. However, when it comes to skiing off-piste, especially in manky/cruddy stuff (breakable crust, etc.), you will find yourself completely lost if your brain has come to expect that those skills you had previously developed no longer produce the same results. This is why I have advocated for developing a strong set of skills that will work everywhere on the mountain in all terrain and conditions.

 

[Steve]

I completely agree with you. Today the trail turned to an off-piste like surface after 2 plus hours of people skiing on it, and temps in the 40's. Torque off a fulcrum ahead of the toepiece, during the belly of the turn, worked just fine in those conditions.

 

[Steve]

The torque produced by moving the pressure fore and aft along the length of the ski. The effect makes use of the self-steering capability of modern skis. Allow the turning of the skis to turn your legs for you rather than twisting your legs to turn the skis. This is the way “brushed carves” are produced as described by HH among many other good coaches.

OK great, so your previous comment has more meaning as we were talking about the same thing.

It worked great today when I needed it for a quick evasive maneuver, no hockey-slows needed.

I have read a few of the HH books and don't recall seeing that described, but it just might not have connected with me at that time. It's interesting to know it's part of it. I learned a ton from Harb in the early days, then went over to the Light side and spent years working towards that Level 2 skiing exam of leg steering and Wedge Christies.

Gellie is my mentor now. It's good to find out that I've moved more back to the darkside in a way. He's an awfully upbeat guy to think any darkness about though.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I learned a ton from Harb in the early days, then went over to the Light side and spent years working towards that Level 2 skiing exam of leg steering and Wedge Christies.

Gellie is my mentor now. It's good to find out that I've moved more back to the darkside in a way. He's an awfully upbeat guy to think any darkness about though.

I just LOVE this.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Quoting Tom Gellie from the webinar: Skiing Drills: Javelin Turns.
"What's the purpose of these webinars? What are we doing here? What's the point of doing these drills? It's not to pass an exam. It's to try and make your skiing better." Said by Tom at about 10:18 after a participant noted that he had heard the opposite in training.

 

[geepers]

@Tim Hodgson of course I'm interested in your comments!

Yes it really is a mind blowing concept and it works.

Today on the WROD if there was someone that I needed to slow down to stay behind instead of my old go to movements of turning my legs, kind of hockey-slow -- I just moved forward on the skis, they whipped around. I almost hit a bare spot at one point with a rock exposed. Move that pivot point forward, skis turned.

Steve and @Tim Hodgson,

Not to worry. All those years spent working on rotary will come into good use in bumps. Bump Lesson Speed and Line Control Lesson and Better Flow in the Bumps. Where you are going to rotary further and faster than you may have ever done before. The good news is most of the movement will occur whilst the tips are lightly or totally unloaded so it doesn't need much torque.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Not nearly as detailed or as instructional as the subscription videos, but a very nice overview of Tom Gellie's approach:

 

[LiquidFeet]

^^ That's a well-organized video. An important but invisible part of its excellence is the videographer who I presume is skiing blindly alongside Tom. I've tried doing video of a friend from the side. One needs to look with the camera which pre-empts looking where you're going. How do pro videographers safely do it at those speeds?

Tom's instruction is directed towards technically good skiers who already know how to carve, but who have not yet figured out how to get their hip to snow by the fall line. In addition, these skiers are missing that exhilarating feeling of toppling into the turn. Tom's approach is to get such skiers to relax that old outside leg fast and early, at speed, in order to topple quickly and get hip to snow before the bottom of the turn. He uses the In-rigger Turn on low pitch terrain as a single intermediary step to overcome the body's refusal to let itself fall, which is what toppling is.

This is concise, clear, to the point video instruction for upper level skiers. If anyone reading here is seeking hip-to-snow by following this particular progression, would you report back how it works for you?

 

[Steve]

Just posting here to reiterate how much Gellie's insights have helped my skiing. My skiing has taken a quantum leap in the 10 mornings I've been out on snow. A couple of days ago a very good skier on the mountain joined me on the lift after I'd skied my first run down from the summit. "You made some nice turns there." He said to me. I asked "what part of that run did you see nice turns?" He said "the whole thing, I skied behind you the whole run." I ski pretty well, but rarely have I been told that I look good. My body is suddenly separated, angulated, countered, flexed -- all from just a few simple cues I synthesized in my mind after dozens of hours of watching his videos this summer and fall.

I've been skiing for a long time, and taking it really seriously for more than 15 years. I started as an adult though, thus the way I ski has never gotten over the real hump I've been trying to get over for all these years.

All the tips, drills, coaching, and countless turns (I ski 90+ times a year normally) have come in handy, now that Gellie has explained to me just what the hell I should be doing, am doing, and what happens from what I do. And freed me from some of the restrictive PSIA concepts I'd internalized.

It hasn't been hard to put the pieces together now that I finally understand.

 

[Mike King]

Just posting here to reiterate how much Gellie's insights have helped my skiing. My skiing has taken a quantum leap in the 10 mornings I've been out on snow. A couple of days ago a very good skier on the mountain joined me on the lift after I'd skied my first run down from the summit. "You made some nice turns there." He said to me. I asked "what part of that run did you see nice turns?" He said "the whole thing, I skied behind you the whole run." I ski pretty well, but rarely have I been told that I look good. My body is suddenly separated, angulated, countered, flexed -- all from just a few simple cues I synthesized in my mind after dozens of hours of watching his videos this summer and fall.

I've been skiing for a long time, and taking it really seriously for more than 15 years. I started as an adult though, thus the way I ski has never gotten over the real hump I've been trying to get over for all these years.

All the tips, drills, coaching, and countless turns (I ski 90+ times a year normally) have come in handy, now that Gellie has explained to me just what the hell I should be doing, am doing, and what happens from what I do. And freed me from some of the restrictive PSIA concepts I'd internalized.

It hasn't been hard to put the pieces together now that I finally understand.

I agree. There was a lot of what I looked for in skiing because it was told to me but my understanding was not grounded in physics or biomechanics. Tom's stuff has provided a much needed foundation to understand why some body movements are efficient and others are not. I expect that as I go for my level 3 this season I will find some trainers/examiners who do not agree with some of that understanding...

Mike

 

[geepers]

Great to hear that @Steve and @Mike King - I found his stuff was incredibly useful both for own skiing and for MA.

Interested to hear your feedback on using TG's bump technique stuff. Again, I found it hugely useful. Apart from wedging... that was a step too far this year. Bit of a story but mostly due to limited time where we had bumps to work with.

 

[Steve]

I expect that as I go for my level 3 this season I will find some trainers/examiners who do not agree with some of that understanding...

I'd think for the skiing exam that it will only help, as long as you also practice some of the stupid human tricks. I was doing railroad tracks the other day using subtle knee angulation from rotating my lower legs, and a little bit of a topple focus. I doubt that either of those movements would be visible, and I felt that I was making nice RR tracks.

I was not focusing on tipping my feet from side to side.

As to the teaching exam, some of the terminology has to be avoided, but my understanding is they'd rather you don't use lots of words to explain things.

I guess one big disagreement might be with leg steering vs. fulcrum steering.

 

[LiquidFeet]

PSIA wants the pivot point when "steering" a turn to be under the foot in the arch area. Think Bow Ties. In an exam, be sure you enforce the arch as your pivot point. The arch is a big deal for PSIA.

@Erik Timmerman can confirm this or refute it. He's more in the loop than me.