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Too Many Cars Are Too Fast

scott43

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@DanoT: how many people who buy a $60K+ pickup truck use it like a work truck? Let’s be real here.
I know the point you're trying to make..and somewhat agree..but many trucks are used for both personal and work, at least around here. Yes many people buy them because Big Truck Syndrome..but honestly, many are used as work trucks too. The split is probably less than you think.

Having said that, there are MANY trucks that never have more than a bicycle put in the back..
 

Ogg

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I know the point you're trying to make..and somewhat agree..but many trucks are used for both personal and work, at least around here. Yes many people buy them because Big Truck Syndrome..but honestly, many are used as work trucks too. The split is probably less than you think.

Having said that, there are MANY trucks that never have more than a bicycle put in the back..
I'm sure I'll see plenty of the Rivian PUs and more of the SUVs around here. Teslas seem to almost be required equipment in certain sets.
 

weatherman

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I know the point you're trying to make..and somewhat agree..but many trucks are used for both personal and work, at least around here. Yes many people buy them because Big Truck Syndrome..but honestly, many are used as work trucks too. The split is probably less than you think.

Having said that, there are MANY trucks that never have more than a bicycle put in the back..
This is very true. Work trucks are purchased to be beat on. Now $60k+ Jeeps... yeah, people buy those to beat them up. A quick glance at my driveway confirms this is a reality.
 

Ogg

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This is very true. Work trucks are purchased to be beat on. Now $60k+ Jeeps... yeah, people buy those to beat them up. A quick glance at my driveway confirms this is a reality.
It seems everybody has a 4 door Wrangler around here. Most will never be off pavement.
 

Lorenzzo

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Around here (Wasatch Back) with everything construction related on fire, you see some pretty expensive, dialed trucks on job sites and they’re seldom dirty. Even if they don’t serve hard duty on weekends, which of course may or may not be true, I have a hard time believing this segment will warm up to an electric truck anytime soon. I predict late to kicking and screaming adoption.

There are however countless recent wealthy transplants who would love to have a cool looking electric truck in one of their garage bays, maybe next to the Tesla they brought from California. I doubt they’ll care about space or payload.
 

dan ross

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That's a nice car
Yes they are -one of my few regrets was not buying one ( or 3) when you could get them ( air cooled 911’s) here in California for under 10k , sometimes well under that. It wasn’t that long ago , even 12-15 years ago they were reasonable , now the prices are crazy.
 

Muleski

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Contractor friend swung by this weekend. He’s the owner/boss but will still occasionally wear a tool belt. And his trucks get used.

Brand new F350, with what seems like every option available. Very clean, shiny. Thing is a beast, and he is “anal” about the tastefully done graphics. His are small and just on the doors, being the boss.

He joked that a smaller truck would be fine, “But I wanted it.”

A friend owned one of the first Hummer dealerships in NE. Turned out to be brilliant as they built him a tremendous facility, which he still has. Another brand.

His defined market were older, very successful guys who were builders, and in the trades. Might normally look at something like a Corvette. Nope. He sold a TON of them. For a while. All toys for these guys.

Some guys just like big trucks. And beat on them.
 

Alexzn

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Around here (Wasatch Back) with everything construction related on fire, you see some pretty expensive, dialed trucks on job sites and they’re seldom dirty. Even if they don’t serve hard duty on weekends, which of course may or may not be true, I have a hard time believing this segment will warm up to an electric truck anytime soon. I predict late to kicking and screaming adoption.

There are however countless recent wealthy transplants who would love to have a cool looking electric truck in one of their garage bays, maybe next to the Tesla they brought from California. I doubt they’ll care about space or payload.
You seem to regard EVs and electric trucks in general as substandard vehicles for the status-conscious "tree huggers". That was true 10 years ago. My prediction is that this segment will warm up to electrics pretty soon, as soon as their adventurous buddy in an electric Rivian or F150 Lightning will keep leaving them for dead at every stop light, twisting road, or an off-road trail. Performance sells and current crop of EVs are truly better performing vehicles. People who appreciate toys will buy a cool shiny new toy that outdrives every other truck on and off-pavement, why wouldn't they?

Tesla currently has a 6-month backlog on new car orders because the cars are that good. There is just not enough tree-huggers to create that kind of steady demand :) .
 

Alexzn

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I have no doubt that we will eventually see viable hybrid and/or electric HD trucks but I doubt it will be from Rivian. It's more likely it will be Ford, GM or FCA that gets them to market, IMO. I'm actually kind of surprised we haven't seen diesel hybrids yet.
Diesel has a higher compression ratio than gas engine, so it requires thicker walls, more metal, more weight. Diesels really make sense for bigger heavier engines, this is why you see them a lot in bigger trucks and heavier SUVs. Modern manufacturing allowed smaller diesel engines (hence the diesel revolution in Europe, they didn't just wake up to the advantages of that type of an engine; the emission control technology was of course another enabler). A hybrid drivetrain needs a very small engine to complement the batter-electric motor drivetrain, so diesel does not make much sense. Plus a diesel will have to carry the overhead of the urea-based emission control system, meaning more weight and complexity.
 

Lorenzzo

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You seem to regard EVs and electric trucks in general as substandard vehicles for the status-conscious "tree huggers". That was true 10 years ago. My prediction is that this segment will warm up to electrics pretty soon, as soon as their adventurous buddy in an electric Rivian or F150 Lightning will keep leaving them for dead at every stop light, twisting road, or an off-road trail. Performance sells and current crop of EVs are truly better performing vehicles. People who appreciate toys will buy a cool shiny new toy that outdrives every other truck on and off-pavement, why wouldn't they?

Tesla currently has a 6-month backlog on new car orders because the cars are that good. There is just not enough tree-huggers to create that kind of steady demand :) .
Not at all. I own a plug in hybrid. Half my trips are electric only. The car guy in me loves throaty engines and the mechanical nature of ICE. But the bigger part of me has as his prime objective to act as responsible as possible towards future generations. I also like the performance. No, I don’t need to be convinced as to the merit of EV.

But…I‘ve also worked with contractors and subs over many years. You may find sushi eating contractors in some west coast metros but most of that segment wants a hemi. And they don’t want workers snickering when they drive up. They’re typically proud of their blue collar roots and don’t want their trucks to reflect otherwise.
 

James

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But…I‘ve also worked with contractors and subs over many years. You may find sushi eating contractors in some west coast metros but most of that segment wants a hemi. And they don’t want workers snickering when they drive up. They’re typically proud of their blue collar roots and don’t want their trucks to reflect otherwise.
The walls will tumble soon. That electric Hummer is a total beast. People have kids.
When you can turn you truck into a good arc welder with a simple accessory, maybe that’ll change minds.

It is a little like the early days of the car where there was nowhere to get fuel to run on, no decent roads, tires didn’t really exist. So a horse was still essential.

I don’t think you’ll have events where groups take sledge hammers to an EV pickup like they did with Japanese cars.

Many people said they’d never buy a full size Toyota truck. When they’re actually made in American it’s different. There’s even less barriers when an electric says Ford or GMC on the tailgate.
The other thing is people just like internal combustion engines.

Range and cost are the big issues. Probably mostly range and how to recharge.
Ford has a patent on a bed mounted range extender- essentially a generator that starts up to recharge. So, while you’re at the jobsite, you can recharge, or just not worry too much you’ll get stuck. Whether this is actually going to be a thing, who knows.

I went to a bunch of places in the last month looking for a string trimmer/brush cutter.
A few of these were fully oriented to those who use them all day. At the one where I talked to a guy who’s worked there forever, he didn’t poo poo electrics at all. He knows they’re going to take over, it’s just a little more time as they can’t quite fo the job at cost. But more and more places are banning things like gas leaf blowers.

The pressure for electric is coming from many directions.
 

dan ross

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Contractor friend swung by this weekend. He’s the owner/boss but will still occasionally wear a tool belt. And his trucks get used.

Brand new F350, with what seems like every option available. Very clean, shiny. Thing is a beast, and he is “anal” about the tastefully done graphics. His are small and just on the doors, being the boss.

He joked that a smaller truck would be fine, “But I wanted it.”

A friend owned one of the first Hummer dealerships in NE. Turned out to be brilliant as they built him a tremendous facility, which he still has. Another brand.

His defined market were older, very successful guys who were builders, and in the trades. Might normally look at something like a Corvette. Nope. He sold a TON of them. For a while. All toys for these guys.

Some guys just like big trucks. And beat on them.
I know almost no one who has a F-350 that needs
one- usually contractors and Lobster men ( young). But “ “ needing “ it is not the point I guess. nonetheless it seems to be the first thing they buy when the get some money.
The only time I personally found a 350 necessary was plowing large amounts of heavy , wet east coast snow. Old 350 with a granny gear and a plow is a formidable thing.
 

Muleski

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I know almost no one who has a F-350 that needs
one- usually contractors and Lobster men ( young). But “ “ needing “ it is not the point I guess. nonetheless it seems to be the first thing they buy when the get some money.
The only time I personally found a 350 necessary was plowing large amounts of heavy , wet east coast snow. Old 350 with a granny gear and a plow is a formidable thing.

Probably got great gas mileage too, I suppose! Absolutely true, the trucks that the young guys who work on the water drive....in good times...are huge. Huge, fully optioned and trying hard to scream "I'm killing it!", whether they are or are not. This guy does kill it, and has for many years. Funny thing is that he has two adult sons out of college and in the business. One drives a company F250, the other a RAM 2500. All three the same Navy blue company color. Dad has the big boy. Have no clue how long it is. Huge. And I assume not needed. They have plenty of real big-ass work trucks. These are commuters.

My brother and sister in law were fairly serious equestrians until my nieces declared "I'm out!", and my brother's back was problematic. They had an F350 dually, to tow a four horse trailer. Biggest V8 they offered. Dual cab. Fifth wheel. As I recall, when NOT towing, driving around town, it got about 6mpg. I think he was influenced by the fact that the U.S. Equestrian Team had a fleet of the same trucks. I used to give him a hard time about it all the time. My sister in law is about 5'1", 100 lbs and looked like a Pygmy driving the thing. Really? I guess four houses and a trailer weigh a lot. Never been my thing, HaHa.
 

Seldomski

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I can see electric trucks for fleet, but I don't buy it for the individual who uses it as a work vehicle. Unless its one of those guys who just likes to have a truck and has a desk job. But even then, not sure the 'identity' of driving a truck is compatible with the electric vehicle religion.

Then again, this exists:

Do they sell?
 

dan ross

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Probably got great gas mileage too, I suppose! Absolutely true, the trucks that the young guys who work on the water drive....in good times...are huge. Huge, fully optioned and trying hard to scream "I'm killing it!", whether they are or are not. This guy does kill it, and has for many years. Funny thing is that he has two adult sons out of college and in the business. One drives a company F250, the other a RAM 2500. All three the same Navy blue company color. Dad has the big boy. Have no clue how long it is. Huge. And I assume not needed. They have plenty of real big-ass work trucks. These are commuters.

My brother and sister in law were fairly serious equestrians until my nieces declared "I'm out!", and my brother's back was problematic. They had an F350 dually, to tow a four horse trailer. Biggest V8 they offered. Dual cab. Fifth wheel. As I recall, when NOT towing, driving around town, it got about 6mpg. I think he was influenced by the fact that the U.S. Equestrian Team had a fleet of the same trucks. I used to give him a hard time about it all the time. My sister in law is about 5'1", 100 lbs and looked like a Pygmy driving the thing. Really? I guess four houses and a trailer weigh a lot. Never been my thing, HaHa.
Yup, dodged that bullet -barely. My wife and her sister showed competitively as teenagers , traveling all over the mid-Atlantic and south and sometimes as far as Ohio. Every weekend. Think skiing is expensive? Try Boats. Think boats are expensive? Try horses….
 

geepers

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Then again, this exists:

Do they sell?

Isle of Man TT races (or craziness on country lanes) has an electric bike category - TT Zero. The current lap record is 122mph. One lap is 37.73 miles.



The lap record for ICE bikes is 135mph so there's still some way to go to close the gap.

Range is an issue for eBikes.
 

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