• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Too Many Cars Are Too Fast

geepers

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2018
Posts
4,281
Location
Wanaka, New Zealand
Good description. :thumb:
It's only a matter of time. How many laps were run with ICE bikes to set that 135 mph lap time? How many laps have been run with the electric bikes?

Over 100 years for the ICE bikes to get that fast.

EBikes since only 2010. At 1st the lap speeds rose quickly however there's been plateauing last 3-4 years. Need the next major breakthrough in battery energy density.
 

bbbradley

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Posts
782
Location
East Coast
Over 100 years for the ICE bikes to get that fast.

EBikes since only 2010. At 1st the lap speeds rose quickly however there's been plateauing last 3-4 years. Need the next major breakthrough in battery energy density.
And those ebikes rely on 100+ years of suspension, brake, and tire advancements. ;)
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
22,126
Location
Lukey's boat
EBikes since only 2010. At 1st the lap speeds rose quickly however there's been plateauing last 3-4 years. Need the next major breakthrough in battery energy density.

^This. Aero is already fully developed for human-sized riders, and you can only shove so much motor and so much gearing onto an e-bike.


 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,841
I know almost no one who has a F-350 that needs
one-
“Need” - a big word-
6BD40463-B4C3-4B7E-93D6-93F2A903CD14.jpeg
 
Thread Starter
TS
Tom K.

Tom K.

Skier Ordinaire
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
8,471
@DanoT: how many people who buy a $60K+ pickup truck use it like a work truck? Let’s be real here.

About every single one I see here. Seriously. Work, towing, hunting, or all of them. Maybe my northern MT locale has something to do with it?

I love the Rivian, because I don't tow much anymore, but I'd love to see a real world range test when it is pulling even 5,000 pounds, let alone it's 10,000+ rating.
 

scott43

So much better than a pro
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
13,706
Location
Great White North
About every single one I see here. Seriously. Work, towing, hunting, or all of them. Maybe my northern MT locale has something to do with it?
Every single construction worker here has a pick-up. And when the day shift ends, the side hustle starts. So they may not be using their truck to do their daytime, roofing job..cuz they work for a company, but on the weekends they're roofing for buddies or framing or whatever. Then they're towing the ATV up north or the boat for hunting and fishing.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
Here, in our town, the guys with very substantial side businesses are the firemen. Every. Single. One. Of. Them.

Seems like they all drive new BIG trucks, often emblazoned with the name of their construction, painting or landscaping businesses. The ones who are electricians and plumbers don’t seem to park their work vans at the firehouses…..but they have them. Big and fully decked out!

I always hope they are not so exhausted that they can’t do the “primary” job. But big trucks? Yeah.
 

bbbradley

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Posts
782
Location
East Coast
Well, heck, if you're going to include history wasn't it the Sumerians who invented the wheel in maybe 3500BC? :cool:
FIne by me, but to say that EVs have made these huge leaps in only a few years without accounting for all they shared from the ICE world isn't accurate.
 

geepers

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2018
Posts
4,281
Location
Wanaka, New Zealand
FIne by me, but to say that EVs have made these huge leaps in only a few years without accounting for all they shared from the ICE world isn't accurate.

As a comparison the 1st TT Zero race was held in 2010. Fastest lap that year was 96.8mph.

Which is kind of slow - the 1st 100 mph lap was done in 1957 (on a Gilera 4 cylinder). Norton Manx (500cc singles) would beat 96.8 mph.

So the electric bikes have improved markedly (97mph average lap to 122 mph average lap) and that improvement has a most to do with improved power package. The rest of the bike didn't improve that much or the ICE bikes would now be averaging 160 mph instead of 135 mph.

However.... the rate of improvement has now slowed. Need the next break through.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Tom K.

Tom K.

Skier Ordinaire
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
8,471
Here, in our town, the guys with very substantial side businesses are the firemen. Every. Single. One. Of. Them.

Yup. And ambulance/EMT guys. I've got a couple buddies in those games. If they really want to, and have the seniority, they can complete an entire month's worth of shifts in a long week or so, then get to building!
 

bbbradley

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Posts
782
Location
East Coast
As a comparison the 1st TT Zero race was held in 2010. Fastest lap that year was 96.8mph.

Which is kind of slow - the 1st 100 mph lap was done in 1957 (on a Gilera 4 cylinder). Norton Manx (500cc singles) would beat 96.8 mph.

So the electric bikes have improved markedly (97mph average lap to 122 mph average lap) and that improvement has a most to do with improved power package. The rest of the bike didn't improve that much or the ICE bikes would now be averaging 160 mph instead of 135 mph.

However.... the rate of improvement has now slowed. Need the next break through.
Again, EV piggybaccked a ton of the ICE world, it's impossible to say otherwise.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,841
^This. Aero is already fully developed for human-sized riders, and you can only shove so much motor and so much gearing onto an e-bike.


Few years ago we rented e “skooters” in Montreal. They looked like small motorcycles. You could use them on the bike paths, which was a huge plus.

I think the rental was 1 1/2 or 2 hours and we barely had enough power to make it back. We did give them a good workout, including drag racing them out on the island where the casinos are. There’s a long gravel straight maybe over a mile long.

We get back basically pushing the bikes, owner is not happy. Not sure why he expected us to leave power on the table, that’s just a waste.

The next day we rented 50cc Honda scooters. I think the whole day cost as much as the short e bikes. Not a thought of needing refueling. Went all over the place. Fun. They needed a little foot assist to start on the steep hills, but not bad.

Upshot, e bike- fun for short tour, useless for anything long. Not practical for touring a city.
 

Alexzn

Ski Squaw
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
1,970
Location
Bay Area and Truckee
Again, EV piggybaccked a ton of the ICE world, it's impossible to say otherwise.
I beg to differ in a number of important ways. If the ICE expertise has been pivotal, the best EVs right now would be made by the car companies. In fact, just the opposite is true. The design leaders ate the companies that built vehicles from the ground up (Tesla, Rivian, Lucid), and the traditional automakers are struggling to catch up. The new BMW I4 has been the most anticipated EV in some circles, and it just does not have the range and performance of a Tesla. Of course all these makers use a lot of the designs from the ICE world (no need to reinvent the windshield wipers), but companies like Tesla got ahead precisely by reimagining a lot of the car components from the ground up (including the driver interface...with variable rates of success I must say).
 

bbbradley

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Posts
782
Location
East Coast
I beg to differ in a number of important ways. If the ICE expertise has been pivotal, the best EVs right now would be made by the car companies. In fact, just the opposite is true. The design leaders ate the companies that built vehicles from the ground up (Tesla, Rivian, Lucid), and the traditional automakers are struggling to catch up. The new BMW I4 has been the most anticipated EV in some circles, and it just does not have the range and performance of a Tesla. Of course all these makers use a lot of the designs from the ICE world (no need to reinvent the windshield wipers), but companies like Tesla got ahead precisely by reimagining a lot of the car components from the ground up (including the driver interface...with variable rates of success I must say).
The EV is an iteration on the ICE vehicle, to try and say it is 100% fresh thinking is ridiculous. Design-wise, some of the things that EVs "reimagine" is rubbish like the Tesla tablet slapped in the middle of the dash.
Traditional automakers/businesses struggling to keep up with a new entrant in the market? That is happening in every industry, it is how innovation happens. How the established companies respond is what dictates the winners and losers. Traditional automakers have massive investments in ICE equipment, they are making the move, but they have to change the tire while driving the car down the road at the same time. The new entrants have no baggage, they pick and choose what works from the ICE world and apply it to the EV world.



Hey, look at what Tesla used for an early car:
"The Tesla Roadster is a battery electric vehicle (BEV) sports car, based on the Lotus Elise chassis..."
1632420255271.png
 
Last edited:

x10003q

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 19, 2015
Posts
758
Location
NYC Metro
@DanoT: how many people who buy a $60K+ pickup truck use it like a work truck? Let’s be real here.
We have lots of family living in the north Houston suburbs. We visit every year for a week around Xmas/New Years. We tend to walk year around in our area, so we continue to walk when we visit. Every house in their neighborhoods has a pristine, maxed out "TEXAS" version, 4 door, short bed pickup in the driveway. You can usually eat off the beds. The actual work trucks are rare, and when we do see a work truck, there is usually one of these clean, non-work pickups parked next to it. The basic conclusion is that most people in this area use them as daily drivers, not as work trucks.

I think these pickups have replaced the monster station wagons of my youth.
 

geepers

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2018
Posts
4,281
Location
Wanaka, New Zealand
Again, EV piggybaccked a ton of the ICE world, it's impossible to say otherwise.

So what?

This is like saying jet engines piggy backed on the airframes of ICE engines. They did - at 1st - but took it to a whole new level.

Technical advances nearly always piggyback in part on what has come before.

Seems a bit of a irrelevant point to be concerned with. Plenty to critique current EBs about - like range and weight. And the acoustics are terrible - if we thought Moto GP 500cc 2 strokes sounded bad but these EBs are in a woeful sound class all of their own.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top