Toppling

[Mike King]

In case you want to see some more of Thalmann's skiing...

Yep, I've only made it through level 16. It starts requiring edge angles above 60 degrees (or so) and I can't attain those reliably (yet).

Mike

 

[Noodler]

Yep, I've only made it through level 16. It starts requiring edge angles above 60 degrees (or so) and I can't attain those reliably (yet).

Mike

I must be missing something. How does the Carv device detect edge angles? I though it only was a pressure sensor under the feet?

 

[Mike King]

I must be missing something. How does the Carv device detect edge angles? I though it only was a pressure sensor under the feet?

The sensor plate detects not only pressure, but tilt and yaw, so it can not only sense fore/aft pressure and foot to foot pressure, but edge angle, the rate and duration of all of these metrics within a turn. The data one generates in a "run" is scored against a model developed from big data analysis of top ski instructors, who include @tomgellie, Tomas Michal, Jonathan Ballou, Eric Lipton, Alex Thalmann, and who knows whom else.

Mike

 

[geepers]

Yep, I've only made it through level 16. It starts requiring edge angles above 60 degrees (or so) and I can't attain those reliably (yet).

Mike

So what edge angles did you make to reach level 16?

 

[JESinstr]

If this is true, why are you not a fan of the gliding wedge? (post 170)

Not a fan of starting beginner wedgers in the gliding wedge which is how it was introduced into the progression back in the day. It requires the perfect terrain (which we all know is never there when you really need it) to avoid "speed panic" by the student. Other that, I am in favor of all sizes of wedges so long as they are developed through the arch and not by a heel push.

 

[razie]

Coming from you....wow. Mind, it's probably not too far off the mark to say the new Skills manual is a 30 page summary of Ultimate Skiing. YMMV.

I skimmed through it today. I have to surprise you even more - I think this is better than what we've had before. It could be much better imho, of course, but effecting change in an organization this size (where most audience is lower-level skiers) must not be easy... and this in a sense may be too complex to do the job - but it nails a few points that they never used to nail or emphasize before. It goes along the PSIA's ERP model, which I'm not a fan of etc but the actual content and descriptions are not bad.

It does present a lot of stuff, but mostly useful, indeed, while de-emphasizing some stuff that was "gaga" before etc.

I would do it differently, but that's me . Out of what I've seen so far, I like the NZSIA the most, if it didnt change - they were movement oriented and going along the planes of motion - which in all fairness ERP is too, just more marketable, I guess (woo, skills!). However, this new one denotes a better understanding of a few relationships they used to get wrong before. The drift/steer/carve model is closer to Paul's than anything and brings back focus on lower body and using feet/ankles for tipping etc.

How fast it will disseminate through the ranks and how the courses and ski model will change, that is a completely different question - not holding my breath...

 

[Mike King]

So what edge angles did you make to reach level 16?

Don't know.

It is a combination of factors that allow you to level up: Balance, edge angle, and pressure.

 

[TheArchitect]

Next project is making all the content more easy to follow and how to use it better. Ie watch this video then this webinar then this short series. I totally get some people’s frustration with how it is laid out. But like you said a good student will find all they need there. If I mapped out how I figured all this out or think about it. It would look like a huge mural of spaghetti Bolognese splatted on a wall! No logical format in my mind. The hardest thing is taking that and making it digestible for you guys.

I can see your point on the organization. I'm a subscriber as well and I'm okay with having to dig for material but what I really, really would like for you to do is make it so we can mark what we've viewed as "watched" and have it easily determined. Until then I'm using the trick @Steve is using

 

[Noodler]

I can see your point on the organization. I'm a subscriber as well and I'm okay with having to dig for material but what I really, really would like for you to do is make it so we can mark what we've viewed as "watched" and have it easily determined. Until then I'm using the trick @Steve is using

Ditto! And have the video pick back up where you've left off. So what's the trick? I must've missed that one.

 

[TheArchitect]

Lito's books are perfect for intermediates.

And +1 to an index and better sorting of his material. I favorite things I've watched, just to keep track of what I've watched, but you have to click on each one, go to it, to see if it's favorited.

He's like a mad genius scientist, you have to pay attention, you never know what insights will come out, but you have to be a highly motivated and dedicated student to best make use of his material.

@Noodler this is what I was referring to.

 

[tomgellie]

I can see your point on the organization. I'm a subscriber as well and I'm okay with having to dig for material but what I really, really would like for you to do is make it so we can mark what we've viewed as "watched" and have it easily determined. Until then I'm using the trick @Steve is using

I’m hearing you on that one. I need to ask the platform provider I use if this can be done.
more even a “mark as favorite” type thing to help you go back to ones you want to review again.

 

[LiquidFeet]

It would also be helpful if each video had a single title, so every time we talk about a particular video to someone, we will call it by the same name.

 

[tomgellie]

It would also be helpful if each video had a single title, so every time we talk about a particular video to someone, we will call it by the same name.

That’s there to keep you all confused and help start debates when really everyone is saying the same thing.

sorry joke. Yes I need to get that sorted

 

[Mike King]

I want to be able to topple like Patrick.

40K views · 3.5K likes | Sciare che Passione on Instagram: "@patrickbaetz is back to ski on piste @stantonamarlberg #stanton #ski#skier#skiing#snow #winter #esqui#esquiar#sci#sciare#neve#skifahrenu #mountain#mountains#outdoor#adventures#montagne#mon

3,506 likes, 15 comments - skimania.itJanuary 22, 2021 on : "@patrickbaetz is back to ski on piste @stantonamarlberg #stanton #ski#skier#skiing#snow #winter #esqui#esquiar#sci#sciare#neve#skifahren..."

www.instagram.com

 

[Jilly]

I really hate this word - toppling. But last Thursday night we had an Ontario CSIA Zoom presentation....and there it was. "your topple" ARGH.... It just sounds so abrupt to me.

 

[Mike King]

I really hate this word - toppling. But last Thursday night we had an Ontario CSIA Zoom presentation....and there it was. "your topple" ARGH.... It just sounds so abrupt to me.

That's because at the highest level it is abrupt. When I get this working for me, it is explosive how quickly the skis change edge. How quickly I have early edge on the new outside ski. How much edge angle I can develop. How high in the turn maximum pressure is developed. And how aligned I am to the new outside ski.

 

[Steve]

It's just a word. So many people have problems with the word - I get it. It doesn't mean what most of them think but they still object to it being used the way TG uses it.

It's inclining. It's crossing over. It works and doesn't have to be abrupt. Think of it as a new word, don't bring your preconceived definitions to it.

 

[geepers]

I really hate this word - toppling. But last Thursday night we had an Ontario CSIA Zoom presentation....and there it was. "your topple" ARGH.... It just sounds so abrupt to me.

Yep - toppling right there is the new CSIA manuals.

But, as Tom Gellie points outs, it doesn't have to be abrupt. He uses the example of Warren Jobbitt toppling in a fairly gentle way.


Toppling gets more rapid the more we allow ourselves to become laterally unstable. It gets very abrupt when we continue to build angulation late in the turn - in the new CSIA manuals biasing balancing to move out of the turn - and combine with a dual flex to release. Our bodies and feet go on diverging trajectories and we harness both gravity and "centrifugal" forces for a very quick topple. Great for minimizing time in the fall line on steeper pitches.

 

[slowrider]

But toppling, at least in the new CSIA term, doesn't use the top half of the kinetic chain first.

It is an upperbody movement, but the movement is a result, an outcome. What initiates it is lightening the new inside leg. If done right, it's a way to put pressure on the new outside ski higher up in the turn, allowing rounder turns and more grip.

Is retraction and tipping part of lighting the new inside leg?

 

[LiquidFeet]

@slowrider, one can do three things at once, as a single but complex move. This is very effective. Does this match what you are asking?

1. Pull the new inside foot back, which requires flexing that leg...
2. which in turn releases its grip on the snow and lightens it...
3. and tip it to the little toe edge starting with the foot inside the boot.

The body will topple, edges will change, new turn will start.