Transitioning kids from wedge to parallel

[AtleB]

I volunteer as a ski coach for one of the beginner groups in our local ski club. The kids I teach are supposed to be at a level where they can ski parallel but a few of them are, in reality, not.
What do you guys find is the best way to transition kids from wedge to parallel?
My on education on the matter is ancient, relying on the christy.

 

[jt10000]

My boy is in a group with some kids making transition now. The coaches in his group told them that it's OK to wedge in a turn if they have to, but he does not want them doing that when not turning. So as far as I can tell the kids just stopped doing it between turns - they're picking up their inside skis right away.

I assume more specific guidance will come.

 

[ADKmel]

I teach slide slipping, falling leaf, to find out which side is strong or weak. I teach awareness of body position, feet and "Feeling" pressuring the skis to slow.

I get them to turn parallel UP hill (to slow down) I say with feet together "tip your skis up hill "
another drill- on flatter surface -going from the wedge have them slide feet together in the turn and shuffling the feet-
I really like the turn up hill because they slow down, that is the fear when leaving the wedge- speed..

I also teach to keep the zipper and shoulders down the fall line when they turn up hill-to be looking for where the next turn will be - this teaches body separation and yes I'm teaching future bump skiers/racers to be looking down the hill for the next turn.

the kids that ice/roller skate seem to pick it up fastest- once they "feel" the control from pressuring the skis in the turn, they seem to progress quickly out of the wedge as it's easier to be parallel than wedging.

I don't teach picking up skis. skis should stay on the snow- picking feet up IMO is a very bad habit and hard to unlearn.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

You have to get them to release the old turn. They have to flatten the old outside ski. I ask them not to think about skis being parallel or not, but to focus on the skis having the same angle on the snow. If they do that the skis will become parallel.

 

[Jamt]

You have to get them to release the old turn. They have to flatten the old outside ski. I ask them not to think about skis being parallel or not, but to focus on the skis having the same angle on the snow. If they do that the skis will become parallel.

I agree with this, and even before that you could have them doing wedge turns by tipping the feet inside the boot, which most do not.

 

[AtleB]

I teach slide slipping, falling leaf, to find out which side is strong or weak. I teach awareness of body position, feet and "Feeling" pressuring the skis to slow.

I get them to turn parallel UP hill (to slow down) I say with feet together "tip your skis up hill "
another drill- on flatter surface -going from the wedge have them slide feet together in the turn and shuffling the feet-
I really like the turn up hill because they slow down, that is the fear when leaving the wedge- speed..

I also teach to keep the zipper and shoulders down the fall line when they turn up hill-to be looking for where the next turn will be - this teaches body separation and yes I'm teaching future bump skiers/racers to be looking down the hill for the next turn.

the kids that ice/roller skate seem to pick it up fastest- once they "feel" the control from pressuring the skis in the turn, they seem to progress quickly out of the wedge as it's easier to be parallel than wedging.

I don't teach picking up skis. skis should stay on the snow- picking feet up IMO is a very bad habit and hard to unlearn.

Thanks a lot for some great suggestions, some of them we have been doing but some are new and will be added to my list.
We have been doing side slipping, speed checking and hockeystop to get a feeling for the edge, but I have not been doing "falling leaf".
Will also try parallel turn up hill. We have been doing some shuffles, but not in the setting you describe (added to list)
I sometimes use a gated course in our training, I think thats a good way to have the kids looking for the next turn, we focus a bit on this with the more "advanced" kids in the group.

 

[AtleB]

You have to get them to release the old turn. They have to flatten the old outside ski. I ask them not to think about skis being parallel or not, but to focus on the skis having the same angle on the snow. If they do that the skis will become parallel.

Thanks, I agree with your input. But for the youngest, least advanced of the kids (coincidentally those are also the kids not skiing with parallel skis) just describing and showing what to do will probably not be the most efficient.
Any good suggestions for exercises for this?

 

[ADKmel]

skiing backwards is Fun and also helps with feeling your feet/ankles,flexing. why falling leaf is good one.
have FUN

 

[crgildart]

You have to get them to release the old turn. They have to flatten the old outside ski. I ask them not to think about skis being parallel or not, but to focus on the skis having the same angle on the snow. If they do that the skis will become parallel.

I've done step drills and suggested they pick up the foot briefly to disengage and step over to the other foot to initiate the next turn. It works well but the caveat that it's just a STEP in the direction they need to be going and the actual lifting of the ski needs to be phased out next to facilitate actual two footed skiing and carving.

 

[mike_m]

Tell them to pretend they're riding a bike. One pedal goes down, one goes up. Lift the left foot/thigh to go left and pull that knee uphill. Wedge disappears and parallel turn usually results.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Tell them to pretend they're riding a bike. One pedal goes down, one goes up. Lift the left foot/thigh to go left and pull that knee uphill. Wedge disappears and parallel turn usually results.

I use a variation of the bike ride often. I also like having them turn going up hill a little bit at the end to stop. Hug fan of fallimg leaf and skiing backwards as well. Best students are usually ice skaters and hockey players. I like the idea of wedging if you have to during the turn but parallel in between.

 

[coskigirl]

Thanks, I agree with your input. But for the youngest, least advanced of the kids (coincidentally those are also the kids not skiing with parallel skis) just describing and showing what to do will probably not be the most efficient.
Any good suggestions for exercises for this?

I understand the issue of communicating to young children. When I coached, one of the successful methods I used to to communicate to them was "point your toes where you want to go" which forces them to pull the inside ski out of the wedge. I also worked going across the hill between turns (find less busy areas to do this so you aren't annoying other skiers) so they are slowed by the hill, not by wedging their turns. Often they are just afraid of getting going too fast. This also helps them have time to get parallel between turns if they do wedge their turns and become more comfortable with the feel of that.

 

[jabbajr]

If I have a student trying to break the wedge, let's go on easier terrain than they normally ski. Having them follow in my tracks using the narrowest wedge they feel comfortable with, we start with large radius turns, funneling down to shorter, more rhythmic turns. If the student has good fundamental balance, once we get to the shorter turns, the majority of the time I see the skis spontaneous match at or right after the fall line, and they don't even realize it's happening! When I point it out, the student gets pretty stoked and the the hurdle of getting parallel becomes much smaller. After that it is just refining those movements and sensations and getting mileage.

I like to start with drills that will put the skis parallel and get us comfortable on corresponding edges. So in a traverse we are marching across the hill (pretty hard to march in a wedge), using the up hill edges of our skis to push off the snow, back and forth. Progress to jumping in the traverse, pushing off and landing on the uphill edges (while maintaining a good stance/balance). Back and forth, back and forth. After that I like to move to drills that start guiding pressure to outside/downhill ski. So in traverse, tap the tail of uphill ski while pressuring big toe edge of downhill ski, back and forth. Then try to see if they can lift the up hill ski in a traverse and for how long, while pressuring big toe edge of down hill ski (this will also give you a good idea of where their balance is. Is the ski tip higher than the ski tail? Are they able to shift balance laterally to stand on the downhill ski?). Back and forth, back and forth getting practice.

After that, I'll take them back to tapping the tail of the uphill/inside ski, but with a challenge! Can they start tapping right after the fall line? Sooner? In the fall line? We'll go back and forth, trying the start tapping the tail of the inside ski sooner and sooner. Can we do it through the whole turn? After that, let's do another follow the leader. Are the skis now matching through the turn? Usually yes! After that we can work on getting a ton of mileage with our parallel turns. Let's see if we can increase our speed and keep parallel, increase pitch, or even get in the crud and stay parallel.

 

[mike_m]

Excellent progression!

 

[Chris V.]

Every self-respecting kid loves to jump. Ever try to jump in a wedge? Motivation.

 

[Henry]

Never, ever, teach them anything they will have to unlearn. Do not each a stem or sliding wedge. From the first day beginner's wedge (lift line speed control) teach them the rudimentary elements of a parallel turn. Some will get it sooner, some later. Avoid teaching the wide stance, go just wide enough to get them going. They'll go through the sliding wedge/stem turn without "learning" it, without implanting it into their brain, and get into parallel turns. Don't let them do a power wedge down a steep pitch. Get them to make rudimentary parallel turn across the slope instead of power wedge straight down. In the power wedge they're often sitting way back, another really bad habit to un-learn.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I did something like this years ago on SL skis with first time on skis groups. It is easiest with kids (and adults) that are skis that have a side cut (twin tips make it harder).

Aside from some of the other skills required, here is the fastest most effective method I found.

On shallow slopes, skis shoulder width apart, move the knees left, move the knees right, skis will follow the arc, voila, parallel (in the very simplest terms). As they pick up the pace (speed limited by shallow slope), it encourages correct body position to take shape. Now you can start to add instruction as to the why and how this happens.

Before anyone writes this is bad idea, its a simple but effective method to get them started to get the concept across, everything else just takes it to the next level and beyond.

Remember, let the ski do the work, the skier just directs it.

 

[ss20]

I try to get it to occur as "natural" as possible. A lot of this stuff is great...but some of it is a bit too cognitive for someone who's under age 7 or 8. I like to teach kids about their edges... I teach them to use their "parallel ski edges" (corresponding edges for adults). I teach to use them as a "unit"...the kids love rolling onto their edges and seeing who can get the highest up a snow wall on the side of the trail, and then who can slide the furthest down the wall after flattening their edges. I ask them to jump on the flats to make their pizza slice disappear. Get them in a narrower stance when its flat. Kids love the little jumps and side hits off to the side of the trail, usually they'll figure out they get the best success with parallel skis rather than being in a big wedge. If the kids are patient enough we'll do a falling leaf but that's rare at this age.

I 100% love everything already said in this thread. But in a group lesson of 6yo's...keep them moving and let the skis and the terrain do the talking.

 

[ss20]

I did something like this years ago on SL skis with first time on skis groups. It is easiest with kids (and adults) that are skis that have a side cut (twin tips make it harder).

Aside from some of the other skills required, here is the fastest most effective method I found.

On shallow slopes, skis shoulder width apart, move the knees left, move the knees right, skis will follow the arc, voila, parallel (in the very simplest terms). As they pick up the pace (speed limited by shallow slope), it encourages correct body position to take shape. Now you can start to add instruction as to the why and how this happens.

Before anyone writes this is bad idea, its a simple but effective method to get them started to get the concept across, everything else just takes it to the next level and beyond.

Remember, let the ski do the work, the skier just directs it.

Yep I've had good experience with this. We all have skis that will literally turn themselves just by being put on edge...provide the student with that sensation and go from there.

 

[AtleB]

Feedback: I mixed in a few of the exercises suggested by you guys I’m tonight’s training. Success!
Thanks again for valuable input!